hemingway

Significant in my view. Despite what we know and what we think we know and the circumstantial evidence, cannot see WADA getting up without new evidence coming in the form of uncovered documentation or someone breaking ranks with the EFC.

great defence Ash, you have my respect. we all have our biases and wear different coloured glasses. there are plenty of insulting posters on demonland. I dont like them but thats life. i condemn without reserve what's happened at EFC but there is a process to go through here and the next step of that process is WADA. That's all you can ask for.

I suspect that he has no shame. he's not alone.

Unfortunately in today's business and sporting worlds, you can say anything you like because the purpose is to portray any subject or issue in the best possible light for that organization whether it be truthful or not. Media outlets are used as part of the marketing communications strategy often knowingly and willingly. This is why we should view media commentary with suspicion. Its becoming increasingly difficult to discern the truth on anything. This sits alongside the deteriorating standards of accountability, responsibility and ethical behaviour. However, other than Hird's poor ethical standards, the thing that annoys me most is the attitude that the players are innocent of all wrongdoing. Given the regime in place, how could anyone think that what they were doing was okay? It's beyond belief. In no other case that I can think of would commentators conclude that the players or athletes were hard done by or innocent of improper behaviour.

BB, Ash is an Essendon supporter and has behaved with good grace and sense on this site, so you should be a little kinder and cut ash some slack. I have time for his contribution and views.

agree redleg it is the beginning and end of the story

spot on Whispering my sentiments exactly

correct and blackens not only Hird's coaching career but also his playing days.

There is conjecture about big Pencil, but we have to give him game-time to see if he can make an impression. I think we will suffer at centre bounce so he will have to show some flair around the game. Well at least run and controlled aggression. Despite Gawn's poor form he also needs to be given a chance in future games. Jamar is yesterdays man and not part of the future so we need to challenge the other two to see if they are up to it. Grimes and Michie are stiff given other decisions or non-decisions. They would be pretty disappointed. Part of me doesn't like it, part of me does. Michie is presumably being punished for his game last week to send a clear message to him to lift his work rate and defensive game, In regard to Grimes, I have the feeling that Roos and Co have decided that Grimes is not part of their future plans given the development of others down back whereas they see a few others......you know what I mean.......still as an important part of their future plans.

Red in your case your words may be an art form, however, I would use the word "artful" to describe the law and many members of the profession using the full meaning of that lovely word!

He is an arrogant bully boy. Some years ago he did the same thing to a young woman at a function that she was helping to organize. He was unhappy with the arrangements and he walked up to her inches away from her face and shouted abuse at her leaving her in tears. My niece was organizing the conference and witnessed the incident. She was stunned with his aggression, foul language and the nature of personal attack. She vowed never to organize an event with him again. Not a nice person.

Agree Tunna. The medicos are really important. They need to be medicos who have excellent diagnostic skills and of high integrity. Ever since Andrew Daff left several years ago we have had a problem. Not helped by Dan Bates link with Dank. These guys play a critical role in injury management and it cannot be left to people like Misson and para medical people including physios to manage alone.

Come out Redleg, who are you? Regarding Fabulous Phil, was that the day he took a screamer over the pack at the Members end of the ground? I was on the fence in the pocket and it was something to behold. My guess is that it probably was the day because apart from the mark, Phil looked listless all day and played a poor game. The whole team was poor and we lost surprise surprise. But it was worth enduring the loss just to see that mark. From memory Fabulous walked back from 30-35 metres and missed. He was an enigma.

seems only the membership folks have the lowly title of "officer". You are either a manager, analyst, coordinator, coach etc. Still no different from any organisation these days. It makes people feel important even those in shi...y jobs!

Gee that's an impressive line-up or a very worrying one. A large staff overhead particarly given the salaries at the top end. You would think unsustainable in the long term without increased growth in new revenue streams and continued support from the AFL Also underlines how important it is to have success in the near future. How does Melbourne's staff list stack up against others? I assume salaries are competitive with others. It's interesting as my perception was that Jackson had got rid of a lot of staff and reduced salary costs. I know it's a professional business but you do wonder whether all these people are necessary and whether best practice is another name for keeping up with the Joneses. I wonder if there is a better way? It seems that less successful clubs look at successful clubs and try and copy their practices on and off the field. In other words there is not much creative thought or attempt to do anything radically different . However it's catch 22 in a way. Have clubs overcomplicated the whole deal in order to be seen to have a professional operation? Is it necessary to have all these people to become a successful club on the field? You wonder what the mininum and maximum numbers are to be successful. What you do know is that you need good people in all positions to be successful. Just late night musings. Just hope we start winning games on a regular basis.

Please No. This is becoming tragic. And I don't mean Jack Watts

Pretty ridiculous thread. Achieves nothing

Although we were badly beaten in the end, the hammering on the scoreboard came in the last Q. There are 60 + losses all the time and it is not all about Melbourne. Despite the disappointment with our individual and team performance I can't help think that this may have been a 100 + points loss in previous years. Perhaps not a good way to see it, but an indication that we have improved.

Yep I agree Dees however it has always surprised me how so called professional clubs can be so unprofessional at times in their management of player issues and health.

I must be getting soft or my views seriously out of date but the hits from both Hodge and Lewis should receive lengthy suspensions. Not much better than the infamous Barry Hall king hit. Both Hodge and Lewis deserve 6 to 10 week suspensions. Both hits could have killed or seriously maimed their victims. Both could be charged with assault. I don't get it.

Yes Nut, this is true. An acquaintance of mine, an ex-AFL great and media commentator who as you expect is well informed, also thought Toumpas was the pick over Wines. The word was that Toumpas was "a beauty." He felt that we would get Wines. He said that Toumpas had the interest of all clubs including his old club.

If Gaff is available I would try and get him.

Irrespective of the debate, it may be in Jack's best interest to walk away from the game at season end. The pressure on him must be enormous and must be affecting his life and his well-being. Irrespective of the circumstances, no-one deserves the attention and public ridicule that he goes through from week to week. At the end of the day, he is a decent human being that does not deserve it.

we must get anyone who will improve our list as long as the player can find the ball, has run, has excellent disposal skills and who has grunt.

Has always had the mental toughness, commitment and willingness for the contest. Now has the confidence, improving skills, consistency and tactical brain to go with the toughness. Becoming a great player. Just love how this guy plays the game. My favourite player. The key to this guy is that he has played well in all games, win or lose. That is the competitive beast and pride in personal performance. Also shows what can happen if you have an appetite for the contest from Day 1,