Gator

How about in attempt to win a flag and build a dynasty ? So you think all of Hibberd, Jetta, Hunt, Frost, Joel Smith, the McDonalds, and Lever can all play in the same side ? All play their best footy in defence. All are best behind the ball, which is an easier position to play. And all won't fit. Also, how do you plan on securing both Lever and Jones if it was feasible to do so. It's a hypothetical, but one the club would love to be in a position to enact. Hogan, Weideman, and Watts are the future in the forward-line. Trying to convert Tom into a forward is unnecessary and not his best position. And he won't be needed there.

Tom isn't going to be a key forward long-term. He's done OK, but he's not a natural forward and will revert to defence in 2018 and beyond. Lever is still physically developing as a 21 year old defender, but he's 195cms. He's brilliant at intercept marking and his best position is in defence. He'd be the general in defence, wherever he plays, for a decade. Trying to turn him into a mid isn't going to happen. Yes, injuries occur, but assuming they're all fit and firing they're not all going to be in the best 22. If one has very good value and could be used in a trade you do the deal to get a player like Lever. If there's a possibility to land both he and Jones something has to fall from the tree. Adelaide and Sydney will want very good compensation, so what would you propose ? Frost would go a long way to securing Jones, which allows first round pick/s to secure Lever.

I know, which is why he has value. No point stockpiling what you have an abundance of. If it looked like we were Lever's preferred club should he decide he wants to shift back to Victoria then all of Tom McDonald, Oscar McDonald, Frost, Lever, and Joel Smith is at least one too many and potentially two. And I don't see the McDonalds being split up. So what is your solution if we were a chance to secure Lever ?

There is, of course, the question of what to do with the McDonalds and Frost if we were lucky enough to recruit Lever. My guess is that Frost would be traded. Oscar is developing well and at 197cms he has a tonne of physical development left. Splitting up the brothers is also problematic. This isn't to say I don't rate Frost's speed, but he's not as good a defender as Tom and is more easily replaceable. Joel Smith for one is as fast as Frost and at 191cm he's only 3cms shorter than Frost, who doesn't play overly tall anyway. Frost doesn't have to be involved in a Lever trade, but he could be involved to secure Jones. Frost has lived in Sydney once when he was with GWS and his line breaking speed on the SCG would be a weapon. Grundy is getting on (31), Laidlaw no longer gets a game and is short at 190cm, Michael Talia is finished, and Allir Allir has stalled. Melican looks a player, but that's about it in the key position defender stakes. The Swans are crying out for another tall defender. Frost has Leverage.

We don't always see eye to eye, but I read Binman's post a couple of times and could only conclude he quoted the wrong poster. It made no sense whatsoever.

As your position is shifting so is mine. Not about Lever, but about who perhaps is gettable and can provide some outside pace and be that connector we're presently missing. I think Lever is perfect for us in that he is going to be the best key defender in the competition for a decade. I worry about the NQR McDonalds and the NQR Frost. All three have some great attributes, and Oscar has come on in leaps and bounds, but the opportunity to get a player like Lever doesn't come along often. But where I've shifted is on Kelly. As good as he's going to be I don't see how we can get both he and Lever, such is the expense. My compromise is Zac Jones and I know I'm late to the party. It's taken longer for me to warm to him than others. Not being the most sentimental supporter I suspect my resistance was borne out of a desire to make good decisions and not allow any family connection to influence good policy. But in doing so I've probably marked him harder than I should. I still think he has plenty to work on, but his performance last week reinforced the view he's exactly the type we need running the lines. And I'm guessing he'll probably cost approx. $300-400K pa less than Kelly. So it's a more doable solution for a result that won't be the same, but still very good. They could obviously both resist moves back to Melbourne, however, Lever has recently discussed it as being a "life decision" on 5AA. the fact he's put off re-signing gives some hope. Jones would know that if he ever wants to play with his Brother he must come back next year. If he commits to the Swans for another 3 years the time will have probably passed. The general consensus is that he'll probably stay at the Swans, but once again, the fact he hasn't re-signed gives hope. He's a Mornington Peninsula boy who's never known Sydney and he's close to Nathan, so I think there must be some pull to come back home. Who knows if it's enough. Lever and Jones in the off-season would allow us to seriously challenge in 2017.

Yeah, Dad looked interesting with the hand tatts. Whatever it takes.

Jeez Lever is good.

I've been surprised by his lack of physicality inside the contest.

He's playing a more outside role and knew coming here we had far more inside grunt. That said, there's heavy lifting and barely lifting.

$850K for Lever spread out over 4 years is fine. He's a bona fide star in the making and with him in defence, Gawn in ruck, Hogan CHF and our building midfield we'd be a force to be reckoned with. Oscar, Tom, and Frost are a NQR defensive unit. Getting Lever would be a huge fillip. Yes, it would shake the tree and the above named 3 plus Lever don't fit, but Lever is comfortably better than all 3 of them. If you could get it done you would.

How valuable would it be for Viney and others to spend a preseason watching a 4 time premiership pro go about his business ? What value do you put on his intellectual property ? The value of being able to talk to him about his experiences and how he witnessed a club win a flag 3 years after they won 5 games for the year ? I've been disappointed with his output, but I have zero doubt he's got some good footy left in him in 2017. And unlike others, I don't dislike him, so perhaps my views aren't clouded from the outset.

I've been disappointed with his foot skills and physical presence, but I acknowledge his leadership and he's a versatile player that can go behind the ball, into a centre square stoppage, or even push forward. Perhaps he's feeling his way with new teammates and a new game style. I reckon he's got some good games left, but he's not someone I'm expecting to be in our top 4 or 5 players. On Monday in the last quarter he directed Oliver to move his positioning at a centre square ball-up. Oliver did and it resulted with a clearance (long kick into the forward-line). So while I've been disappointed and expected more, I'm still glad we have him and doubt he's one of our major issues. Lewis is well down the list of any concerns I might have.

Lever is a few classes above the McDonalds. Unfortunately, he'll probably stay with Adelaide.

I'd take Lever. Gawn in the ruck, bookends in Hogan and Lever, plus Oliver in the guts and you've got a brilliant nucleus. You'll save coin and turn your attention to a lesser version of Kelly. Maybe a Whitfield type.

Other than @mo64, and perhaps a couple others, I think most who had seen him play thought he'd be the gun that he is. I agree with the rest of your sentiments though. I'd like a classy outside mid and another rock-like key defender, where you don't have your heart in your mouth every time they touch it, but I don't think you need to sell the farm to get them.

Whether it's May or someone else I think the McDonalds and Frost are too flaky to rely on if you're on the cusp of a grand final. I definitely think a quality key defender in the May and Hurley mould is a necessity. Btw, Rance is in the conversation for best ever key defender. He's 194cm. May's height is fine, especially with his strong body and reading of the play. That said, with Gawn's return imminent I'm not averse to improvising with Pedersen down back. I like him more as a defender than stay at home forward. Also, Weideman is also struggling, but he's a smart footballer with good hands. I'd give him a crack in defence at Casey and see how he goes. It only has to be for this season, but he may prove his worth as a defender and be a viable option at AFL level later in the year.

You have to wonder what Melbourne supporters are watching or how they're processing football. Oliver got votes from BOTH coaches and yet many Dees supporters couldn't find him in their best 6 players. They must spend their time working out how to defend the McDonalds. But is it that surprising ? Jack Watts gets excused for years and years and years and years of putrid performances, yet Jesse Hogan, a young superstar, isn't rated and is often lambasted by the same posters.

You're a star, Dees_in_O And when you see it from side on in normal play it's a very long handball. Oliver is a freak.

Yeah, it just showed great vision and precision to execute a 15-20 metre lefthanded handball to Neal-Bullen who didn't need to break stride. The wide angle shot and not the replay shows how good it was.

I don't have the capability, but I'd love to see a gif of "that" handball

I prefer the ball in his hands far more than Lewis.

He had to nail that goal. I too think he lacks a little bit of class. But he's a solid player. Not sure he'd make much of a difference to our team. Good point about Nathan's age @Wiseblood If Zac doesn't come at the end of this year he may not get another chance to play with his Brother.

I quite like McCartin, but I would be concerned by his body shape if I was a Saints supporter. And if that is linked to his diabetes it's an issue. Right now he looks fat and slow.

Just noticed he tops Inside Football Player Ratings:1. OLIVER, Clayton Melb 612. MERRETT, Zach Ess 603. MURPHY, Marc Carl 594. MITCHELL, Tom Haw 595. EBERT, Brad Port 59