Rhino Richards

As MFC have shown that we are little one paced when it comes to possession of the ball and breaking opposition defensive efforts. A lack of leg speed also makes it easier for the opposition to run off you and reduces the defensive pressue you apply. A good football brain with the ability to perform under pressure...We could use a few of them.

What about that new boy? No 9...Neitz...yes that's his name. Look him up.

Good point. Lets play a slow kick to kick. BTW, is Valenti in the same field as Hird and Williams? Hell, we must have a hidden diamond! Interesting comment about Williams. How would he go in the tough rotational hard running game? Mitchell is flanked by faster players. Valenti would be more of the same at MFC.

The girl has accepted a 2 match ban and 75 demerit points on account of it being a first offence.

FCS, he only said he thought we were a chance and it was in a throwaway media clip. Peripheral issue best. I am happy to be corrected by the actual quote but I thought Schwab believed he had the list to challenge for the flag. I dont recall him claiming as you have put it. And DB's throwaway line of a different calibre to what your claiming Schwab has done. BBP, I surprised you so caught up and keen to participate in the negative media static around MFC at the moment. Most learned football followers in the media and elsewhere recognise the challenge before Bailey and have understood that shortcomings that he has inherited. The only thing disasterous and embarrassing is the soft level of support that MFC supporters so often show in tough times. If anything, I reckon DB is honest straightforward, focussed, committed and knowledgeable. He has handled the media with a honest bat. The media have made nothing stick on him. Although they have summed some of spectators very well. There are bigger issues at play so why sweat the small insignificant stuff?

He did make the comment about competitiveness. Bailey believes in what has to be done. If MFC complies with that requirement then he says there a chance. Nothing sensationalist and nothing unreasonable in a media situation. Is anyone forcing you to make your "outlandish calls"?

Agree. What would you possibly expect Bailey to say? If the players cant fight back from adversity then they should not and wont be there. Lack of commitment and adherence to team strategy. I would not expect it would be accepted at other Clubs that are successful. I dont know why its treated as some bellwether of success or failure by supporters here. And a cheap mocking shot at the Coach is just so typical of the mediocre mindsets in this Club. And its going to change. Its up to the players. Do they have it or not? We will find out over the coming weeks.

If we are lacking pace, Valenti will struggle. 2 and 10 for mine. I still think Grimes would be a good bet!

That's right Bub. What is being shown up now? For starters 1. We need to work on handball skills and our thinking under pressure. 2. DB is seeking to sort who can be relied upon to be committed, accountable and disciplined. Some names fall off straight way. The previous game plan and culture catered for that. Everyone is struggling with the change more or less. Its a test of character who rises to the challenge. We just cant carry anyone who may be offensively impressive but defensively lacking. 3. We need to focus on getting players with both skills and pace through the midfield. This is why I am more enamored with Miller and Buckley. Sure they are making errors and in Miller's case a limited footballer but they are committing to do the things that DB demands of the players. Its going to look bad if not everyone is pulling their weight. A wonderful barometer of this is when you compare Steve Johnson in 2006 with the Steve Johnson in 2007. 2006 he was selfish lazy and undisciplined but in 2007 he was the opposite. It had a dramatic effect on the team. Someone else pointed out Cam Mooney. Now which are the players who you think fit the 2006 model and how will they go this year? The next 10 weeks are going to be very interesting regardless of the score line.

This was posted by one of the more intelligent posters here on another site. I think its one of the best analysis of the changes and it should go along way to answering your question. "IMO we didn't play particularly attacking football in 2006. We were successful because we were able to lock down the opposition and then maintain possession with short kicking. We'd chip the ball laboriously forward until we could set up someone inside 50. McLean was excellent at times with this style. This was the era of 'tempo footy'. But I think that the concept of accountability was slightly different. It was not necessarily one on one footy per se. We simply flooded the contests with numbers and drove the ball contiuously forward, either in contests or by chip kicking. At the MCG we were unbeatable because we had space to chip the ball. At the SCG we were very good because we could get lots of numbers at the ball. This was the football that McLean, Junior, Moloney would revel in. We also had the likes of Bartram running in the midfield and able to harrass. He and Junior were insane defensively. I don't think that the gameplan was about being accountable as much as it was about getting numbers to the stoppages. But when the ball is in stoppage it's easy to find a man because the game is slower and you can be covered by the masses of numbers at the contest. There were also many numbers inside our forward 50, as the ball wasn't moved quickly and, as such, the ball was harder to rebound. We had some mercurial players who could goal from nothing (ie, Robbo, Yze, Davey) which was really good to have in a crowded forward line. The problem comes when teams started attacking from defensive 50 with chains of handballs. When you run the ball from defence, instead of kicking, any player not pulling their weight exposes the whole team. Nowadays the pressure doesn't come from stoppages, but in open play. In open play you need to be constantly working hard and you don't get a rest (hence the interchanges). When you have lazy forwards (see how many there are in Geelong - even Johnson is said to be one of the hardest working small forwards and this is why he's successful) this overlap is created far too easily. Our forwards are used to getting a rest (as you see the first instinct is not to chase), but in the constant motion of today's football they aren't coping. In short, we were being defensive in 2006, but now were are trying to be both attacking and defensive. Unfortunately we're are stuffing up the attacking through poor skill/familiarity and not working hard enough defensively. We need a team of hard runners to pull off this game style, but it should be very effective and entertaining when it eventually comes off."

You are putting the cart well before the horse. In the case of this side there are not too many strengths and further the kicking style of game that was predominant during most of ND's reign is not sustainable and was not going to carry us to success given the way the game has changed. For some players, they need to learn the key elements to be a competitive team into today's football. Commitment, discipline and accountability. This wont stick too well with some senior players and its going to take time to learn. Every other successful side at the moment has been through the process. MFC is doing that now. Watch the better teams like Geelong, Collingwood etc and see what they are doing. Take note of the rapid use of interchange. What is that telling you? That is where football is heading.

"The new coach's choice is clear: he either compromises his long-term plans and beliefs, or gradually rids himself of players who cannot adapt to the new running regime. " While I am confident he wont if Bailey was to compromise he should resign. A better than average article. Trevor Grant of the Sun would struggle to understand it.

A dose of reality from the Doctor. At best we will get away 1 maybe 2 trades. From Judd Sucks list, Robbo (age/style) and Moloney (form/injury) is not going to get any real bites at the trade table. We could retire/ delist about 10 without trades but it is likely to be around 8. Judd sucks has the retirements about right. The delists would not include Moloney or Jamar (contracted to 2009) but will likely include Weetra. I do see us in a rebuild so much as a transition. If you look beyond the short term frustration and challenge the players have in executing a new game style, I think there is a good nucleus for a better side supplemented with 2008 draft picks (would like 4 picks in the Top 20) and some judicial trades.

Not according to some of the posters on this site. We need receivers like the Titanic needs an iceberg.

Yze only played the 1st round because Sylvia, Bate, Dunn and Bartram were unavailable. He was not there on merit. He showed in the pre season what he was good for. He confirmed it against the Hawks. His gamestyle and attitude is a compromise of every one of Bailey's principles. IMO he's gone for good bar injuries and extraordinary happenings. If he is not back by Rd 6 you can assume that the next time Yze will be on the MCG will be next year pre match propped up in an open top car with his kids doing a slow lap of the ground with well wishers waving their Red & Blue scarves saying "He was still good for another year." Davey's injury and Moloney and Petterd's petulance has probably saved Weetra another week.

I would be very surprised if Miller was dropped. I would be surprised if Yze came back. Its about character, commitment and discipline to follow team rules. Yze???

aka 2006. A bit long in the tooth I think.

No tall player in the Top 10! We are going to be limited in that regard for the future if the No 1 ruck cannot get at least birth 9 or 10.

I am seeing alot of players struggling with what it requires and I am seeing players who are embellishing it. The principles must be exhibited by every member of the side without exception for those principles to be effective.

Should have been gluttonous!

Jaded was not guaranteeing anything but stating that she thought there was a greater chance of success under DB's plan than just playing the old way. I think she is right. Continuing with a game plan that caters for the unaccountable, lazy and demonstrated superceded football style that MFC have played creates a false dawn of competitiveness. There is nothing cute about what DB is seeking to do. He is seeking the players to play accountable attacking football using strong running and handball to move the ball and to maintain pressure around the ball and opponent. Guess what? That's exactly what Collingwood do, who you admire and other top teams. Your example of the Collingwood match. The game has evolved in the past 2 to 3 years as a running game. Positions are not static, players are more mobile and they run, run, run. The biggest highlight you should have picked up was the interchange numbers. Over 100 interchanges which Matthews says is increasingly controlled by the players who rotate to ensure there are always fresh legs at the contest. Matthews script aint too much different than DBs but he has a more matured playing list that have worked on this for longer than MFC. DB is putting the same message to players and will continue to counsel them to adapt or perish. And its not a matter of players who dont like it seeking a better path at another Club. The game has changed and alot of MFC players need to come to terms with that on the ground. Some players will, some player wont and will go. We need to work on the skill levels to succeed now not later. I think we actually have most of the cattle we need. Its up to them to take up the challenge. This will be supplemented through draft/trade over the next 2 years. The skills required will not be learnt quickly and certainly not over an injury interrupted pre season. The confidence will grow as they get better at these skills through training. The messages DB is putting out there are simple and consistent. There challenging to achieve for a young playing group with many senior players rather set in old ways. The responses and behaviours of the players to following these instructions is outwardly complex and at times cute. Buts its how they respond over the next 4 weeks and the rest of the year that will determine the on field outcomes.

KB should know all about the culture of selfishness at MFC. Never have I seen a more selfish footballer both on and off the field in the AFL than KB. Makes Yze look like Glenn Archer. To cap it off he has down zip for his old Club especially during their hard times since being dumped as Coach. Oh wait he did go back to launch a book...written by his son. I cant think of anyone who more accurately embodies the "me first" attitude on and off the ground. When you think of the concept of ex players giving back to their old Club, KB has morphed it to whats in it for me. And as for SEN, it attracts a low grade demographic that seems to think the OX is intelligent and Jacques from Zennia Mortgages is an attractive financing solution. Neither KB nor SEN are worth the angst. You would get more intellectual stimulation from punching a brick wall.

OK Robbo and Yze are not leaders. And you continue your pathological and tedious attacks on Bruce. Your childhood was worse (or more likely is) worse than I thought. But Miller might not be a top line footballer but in terms of character and having a dip he ranks high. Just an ordinary footballer he is applying himself to the best of his abilities. And its that character and the traits that go with it that has DBs backing and reflects some of the aspects of what DB is trying to achieve. There is much that those player can pick up from example and character off Miller that will stand them in good stead. And if the younger players are listening and following the messages of DB then they will be smart enough to see through the veneer of self orientated players. At the start of the year it was the players that selected the leaders and the players that need to understand through this part of the education process that some of their selections are not leader and the behaviours they exhibit are not the traits of successful leaders. I think when they vote next year there will be more circumspect wisdom in their choices. But as usual you miss most of these things in that vain effort to get the attention that you clearly dont get at home.

The only evidence of Yze dropping himself came from a pre match interview where Robbo made that comment. It has as much integrity as a Robbo 2nd effort for a ball. And for Robbo to make such damaging statements at the time the Club was struggling last year was disingenius and undermining of the coaching group and if Robbo did believe that then he aint gonna like it under DB. He should be working hard on that TV show.

The Hawks got themselves in a financial hole in 1990's when they committed to a facilities development at Glenferrie Oval on leasehold land where one of the major contractors on the job was associated with a Hawks Board member. It was a dumb financial decision which reeked of conflict of interests given there were questions over the viability of Glenferrie oval as base. They burnt the largesse of the 70's and 80's in that debacle. Even during its dark days some years ago the Hawks still pull a lazy 30 to 35,000 members. In the 60's they were a peripheral suburban basket case. Brisbane are now making solid profits with strong corporate support which they did not have before they won the flags. I dont understated your skepticism of Jaded's simple statement when you are on the other bemoaning the process DB is implementing because it adversely affects the financial position of the Club. Nothing like buttering the bread on both sides.