Rhino Richards

Pretty sure it was same deadpan wicket that reduces most bowling attacks to mediocre and can batting sides elevate batting sides above their true standard. You are never going to get a confessional at a press conference. Agree. Perth has always been a problem. The standard of the wickets dont help either.

"There by the grace of God go I". Every time I read one of these headline grabbing, content light, fiction based, fact altering reports in the paper, I say thank God its not one of ours.

Siddle's short of a length bowling was in breach of the team plan. He did bowl too short all test. Siddle is young and will have further opportunities. Symonds med pace relies on swing to take wickets. There was no sideways swing so I am not sure what he offers there. Given we have a full time off spinner I am not sure what bowling more off spin would have done. Ponting backed Krejza and that's fine. Krejza is not up to scratch at the moment and even more trounbling is there is no other real contenders. Krejza bats better than Hussey at the moment. Hayden may not survive another Test after Melb. His lose of form is real blow to Australia as he has set the tempo of the innings for us for so long. I dont think his dismissal is one thing or the other. He was in trouble at any point with Steyn and the new ball. His first innings dismissal was poor.

Agree with that. Some of the revisionist history of MCC/MFC is self serving to the interests However I think its in the long term interests of MFC and MCC that we seek a mutually productive relationship that as close as possible. I dont buy the "MCC you owe us" mentality in this regard. The MCC has much more broader and diverse interest base than just MFC supporters.

No just missing the point. You need 20 wickets to win a Test. We took 14 wickets with one bowler taking 11 wickets. Despite the issues with the batting, we still set them 414 to win. A hard chase by historical standards. It proved not so for a batting line up that put its head down. Symonds made 57 and 37 in the last Test and has averaged 60 in the over the past 3 years. His batting is up to it. But we do need more from him. Watson is no where near Symonds calibre with the bat and for bowling think Brett Lee's current penetration less 5 to 10kms. Watson is not good enough at either skill and Australia cant carry nice to have Agree about Clarke. I dont think this team suffers from "arrogance". It suffers from not being good enough. I agree that the batting needs to work harder and they wont make big changes yet. I think the issue with the batting was that we won the toss and at no time were we able to set the standard of the game. We should have got 400+ in the first dig to close the SAs out. A lead of 150+ in the first innings was crucial to have them under the hammer. At no time in the Test did we have our foot squarely on their necks. Gee you have turned on Siddle, your new ball choice. I think they will drop Siddle. I think they will go for Hilfenhaus or Bollinger. Hayden will survive just. But if we lose the Melbourne Test and Hayden fails then he wont see Sydney.

Or I have missed all the hype..... No. Old's summed it quite well

WANTED: AUSTRALIAN CRICKET TEAM THAT CAN TAKE 20 WICKETS OVER 5 DAYS Well done SA you have exposed the now major flaws in the Australian line up. Congratulations to Mitchell Johnson and Brad Haddin. Johnson is head and shoulders above the other bowlers and has been our strike bowler for the past 3 series. Haddin is really stepping up to the plate. But hell, its disturbing that three bowlers only took three wickets over the whole Test. While Lee bowled a good spell on the 4th day, he is really fodder for an inform batsman. I still think he has the series to turn things around but he does not want another 1-132 again. He needs wickets in Melbourne otherwise he is in trouble. Australia was comprehensively flogged yesterday and our attack (sans Johnsons) was pedestrian. A strike bowler that does not strike is a liability. Unfortunately past record does not count for much if you cant get the wickets. I am still not beyond thinking that Krejza got the planets lined up on debut. A captain just cant implement a strategy when a bowlers leaks at 4 runs per over. Australia were always in trouble setting South Africa less than 450 in the fourth innings. And to think Australia batted too long in the 2005 Perth Test when they set SA 491 to win. Fancy that. While negating responsibility for the outcome where it sits, the ACB should take the Perth test away from the WACA if they continue to serve up questionable wickets that overly favour the batsman and blunt the bowlers. People should forget about Perth being a fast bowlers wicket. It has not been that for 20 years.

Johnson's main weapon is move the ball away (conventionally and old ball) away from the right hander. He does not naturally bring it back in. If he could get that going he could even more potent. McKenzie, Kallis will be cursing their judgement. There is a huge monkey on a couple of the backs of the SA bats now. Ponting should be congratulated for making the change to bring Johnson on. I agree on Krezja and Hayden. Langer and Hogg on ABC radio thought Krezja bowled a little short and flat in the afternoon session. And yes he does not dry the runs. However, he was a ball magnet in the field. Michael Bevan....Enough said.

Most definitely

Correct.

Firstly, Hawthorn were in a rebuild process and Spida who was coming to the end of his career with his attitude problems and culture sores he created at the Club was traded to guess who?? He got pick 39 as 32/33 yo. Also Hawthorn did not have at that time a legitimate and competent young ruck in reserve. White was 27yo, reigning AA ruckman (Hardly past its best ) in a side was seeking to actively challenge for a flag on finishing 8th following being on top at the end of round 14. So its a completely different set of conditions and not applicable. Jolly was p1$$ed off at game time at MFC. He showed it on the sidelines. He reflected in the way he played and made a public statements before he left MFC and publicly declared he wanted to leave. So its got nothing to do with my personal beliefs. It was the attitude he displayed at MFC. If you do the research, you will find that Sydney paid about "market" to get a 2nd ruckman which they desperately needed given Jason Ball was 33 and they wanted to have a crack at flag while they had players like Hall, O'Loughlin etc. near their prime. MFC had two options at the time. Keep a sulking Jolly for another year while White was the lead ruckman and then have him depart to the PSD and MFC gets nothing. Or they could seek to get a trade for him now. And Sydney was the only club legitimately in the market for a ruckman and a trade was done. As MFC were challenging for the finals, it would have football suicide to have sought a trade for an AA ruckman who was critical to that finals march particularly after the Club was reluctantly forced to enter a trade for its No 1 midfielder at the time in Scott Thompson. Had we traded White we may as well had looked at trading Neitz also. Because we would have jeopardised our tilt at a flag relying on two ruckman who were unable at the time to competently fulfil the ruck duties. When you trade you trade to improve your list and opportunities based on what you know at that point in time and expect in the next year possible two. Its not feasible or reasonable to make assessments based on four years out at the exclusion of what is relevant or pertinent to the Club at that point in time.

You have proven neither that MFC stuffed up in letting Jolly go or that it could have or should have traded Jeff White. Its amazing how you were the only one that saw the beginning of the end of Jeff White. Dont flatter yourself. Even the experts could not have clearly assessed the changes the rule would have brought in. Neither Carlton, Collingwood or Essendon in the same period of time have had one AA ruckman let alone 2 competent ruckman. If you want an example of this, check Freo and Brisbane where they had an established top line ruckman and younger ruckman wanted their chance. Even North have a similar predicament at the moment wanting to trade MacIntosh. Hindsight is your only substantiation and even then you make a meal of what that can tell you. And PJ was a great trade!!! He has had 4 years on the list and is not good enough to be No 1 ruck ahead of an ordinary ruckman in Jamar.

I agree and the appropriate support should be given wherever possible.

You have completely misconstrued and misinterpreted my post. Of course footballers coming from interstate, remote communities and overseas need support and guidance given their social and cultural circumstances. The connotation of buckets of money from another poster suggested an inordinate amount be spent beyond which is reasonable to address issues that could have been identified during due diligence. FWIW, Stigga sums up the position well in this matter regarding the need for appropriate support by the Club for players with particular needs. I never suggested that at all. My comment was in response to another post that highlighted very general attributes applied to indigenous people coming into a new social/cultural environment would be no different to any group of persons moving into a new environment. FWIW, in the general community and sometimes on this site there is too much stereotype of aboringinals and Torres Strait islander which is as obnoxious as any deliberate slurring of people of other cultures. I respect your experience amongst the aboriginal peoples in the NT and you make some good points about the impact of Jurrah on his community. Its great stuff and a wonderful story. However, you're making inferences and drawing conclusions about my views and understanding of these matters which are, at best, uninformed, untrue and completely off the mark. You should be more careful not to misuse your undoubted experience and involvement with these communities in making such assumed judgements and allegations in the future.

Awesome Awesome Awesome. After looking set and had they lasted the next half hour then SA were in the box seat at 3/260+. On a good batting pitch late in the day with a hint of reverse swing, Mitchell Johnson put together one of the most devastating spells of old ball swing bowling at 140+kph. Swung the Test match and made his mark on the series If the signs were there before, then there in big lights....This guy is something special and the big thing in quick bowling. Great stuff

Thanks for your opinion. Now are you in for the bet for the benefit of the Club?

Geelong went for an underperforming Ottens and gave picks 12 and 16. What did Sydney have to give beyond pick 15 without trading one of their stars? Collingwood had Fraser and were not in the market. Essendon had David Hille coming through. The points you are missing are: 1. We had no need to trade White as he was critical to a tilt at the flag they MFC were seeking to undertake at the time. They would have floundered, had they relied on Jolly and Jamar in 2005. 2. There was no Club able or willing to stump up the draft picks to trade for White. The only basis for your opinion is 5 years of mottled hindsight and a bizarre understanding of rucking and ruckwork. You need to assess decisions on the basis of what was actually occurring at the time Whether you think White is a great player or not is not relevant to the whether MFC should have traded him. And the fact is White was AA ruckman 2 years after shin splints sad but true. And BTW, you can recover from shin splints.

Diabolical B) And you are prepared to back your memory on Jolly? The "hard running midfield" revolved around around Scott Thompson and Jeff White. When Thompson got injured and White began to tire from carrying the ruck where was our "hard running" midfield????? All outside receivers (bar Junior) Well done. But you have no idea how it would be achieved! The actual hard thing a ruckman needs to do is to win the ruck and give his players best use of the ball. In 2004, White did that in spades. PJ is a 200cm rruck-rover that cant ruck and plays 2nd fiddle to Jamar who I dont rate either. And BTW for someone that loves "bash and crash" ruckman.....PJ is not one. If you cant remember White's season, I dont hold out much hope for you memory discharge above. BTW Jolly was injured early in 2004 so his time off the field was as productive as time on the field. And your just making up your last sentence. Jolly was a C grader and Jamar was a D grader. And name the six clubs??? Why would MFC trade an AA ruckman given what they were left with??? Its hindsight and it lacks any wisdom. Who was prepared to give a Pick No 1 to 2 for an AA ruckman? If a fringe sulker like Jolly was worth pick 15, then what was White worth? Moloney

A bit of luck and I'm left handed too.

Sadly it isnt and its been debunked. Sorry we did not put the fringe player before the needs of the team. What was MFC thinking??? Darren Jolly was not prepared to competer and stated that he wanted to leave. Should we have kept him a year and let him go for nothing in the PSD??? FFS, he was AA ruckman in 2004!!! Were you sitting at another venue? Its a pity as AA ruckman in 2004 White did not do the 1%. clogging holes. Possibly because he was catalyst to getting MFC to top of the ladder by round 18!! And I am buggered if I can work out what achieve Jolly did in 2004 beyond being a trucculent beanpole that was awkward and immobile on the ground and who did little when given the chance. You dont have to be. Common sense will get you there. The No 2 spot on the list was there for Jolly's taking. He did not want and performed a sulk and was most disappointing in 2004. You logic isn't because you still have not dealt with my earlier questions "Why would MFC trade a reigning AA ruckman when it had one sulking fringe ruckman in Jolly and one raw ruckman in Jamar?" And what Club and how much would they have traded?

Nor have you provided any factual evidence beyond "I think" so yours is a bad case of pot calling kettle black. Are you prepared to bet $200 payable to the MFC as a donation if you are proven wrong? I am.

My information comes from a contact close the Club who has been correct on a number of matters. Your choice. No doubts on my side.

Age has little to do with it. And regardless of the answer to the question, how does a further raw rookie ruckman address your perception of the rucks. At the start of 2005, Jason Ball was an unheralded ruckman and his premiership was earned as CHF for WCE. FWIW, Jamar was preferred over Jolly for the 2004 EF after Jolly went into a sulk just prior to seasons end.

Jolly was as fortunate Steven Armstrong to have a P/ship medal. In 2005 Jolly watched a tight match go Sydney's way from the bench. At the end of 2004, why would we have traded the reigning AA ruckman for a player who could not show he could cut it as a No 1 ruckman and in fact had cracked the sads big time at not being given more time against White? What price would you have got for White and which club was prepared to pay it? Jolly was traded because he wanted to leave in 2004 and had one year in his contract. We got what we could in the market for Jolly at the time (Pick 15). The option was to keep him and let him go through the PSD and we would have got nothing. Jolly left as raw and unproven and only in the last year has been a serviceable ruckman. So how did MFC stuff up?

Lets not over do the accolades. This test is in Perth and Johnson has proven dangerous is more likely to get the new ball than Siddle IMO. Anyway he will be exhausted after his marathon 23!!!!!