Demonland

Stuie please give it a rest.

Last month, Hawthorn's president Andrew Newbold accompanied Andrew Demetriou and others to the US on an AFL-equalisation study tour. On his return, one of his first public comments was to slam the idea that the cash strapped and success-starved Melbourne Football Club should be the recipient of any financial or draft assistance from the AFL. I don't believe he mentioned anything about Melbourne, the Bulldogs or even North Melbourne being offered better fixtures along the lines that his club and the other big boys currently enjoy; no extra Friday night games to attract more sponsorship and supporters and no reduction in dead fixture times such as Sunday twilight and the like. In fact, Newbold offered no solutions in respect of the equalisation problem at all. On that basis, it's not difficult to conclude that Newbold is a hypocrite and that the AFL trip was indeed a junket, as many suggested at the time. Instead of helping clubs in need, we are witnessing a flexing of muscles by the president of one of the stronger clubs seeking to maintain the status quo. All this, despite the fact that we are often told that it's in the AFL's interests for all clubs to be more competitive. The fact that Demetriou himself has highlighted that the clubs oppose Melbourne's application suggests that the AFL constituent clubs are reverting to the selfish, greedy partisan politics that prevailed before the AFL Commission was formed - Clubs oppose priority draft pick for Melbourne . The AFL (then VFL) Commission was created in 1985 to administer the competition and its constitution. In the main, it has retained its independence from the constituent clubs (which was its raison d'être in the first place) but the authority of the Commission and its independence is now under attack over the issue of whether the Melbourne Football Club should receive a priority draft selection as a result of its consistently poor performances over the period 2007-2013. During this seven year period, the club's best efforts have been 8½ wins (twice) and otherwise, there have been five seasons in which it recorded between 2 and 5 wins per year. In the season just completed, the club won two matches and finished with a percentage of 54.07. This would have easily qualified Melbourne for a priority pick under the AFL rules that applied in most years prior to the 2012 season onwards but today, clubs can only receive such draft assistance at the discretion of the AFL Commission. The specific criteria have not been announced but it is understood that "a more complicated formula will be used, which takes into account premiership points, percentage, finals appearances and injury rates for a club over several seasons". - AFL overhauls priority pick system The reaction of the opposition clubs to Melbourne's application for assistance has been worrying. The problem I have with the objectors is that they are based on slanted opinions about Melbourne's recruiting performance and ignore the substantive points which the Commission is supposed to take into account in making its decision on draft assistance. And, they place too much weight on the controversy resulting from the AFL's selective "tanking investigation" into events that took place at one club during 2009 even though several others have had their own practices questioned without any scrutiny or investigation. There is little doubt that the club's recruiting performance over the past decade or so has been disappointing (the application for assistance would be unnecessary if it were otherwise) but these assessments fail to take into account several factors. They ignore serious injuries to early picks - for example, of the 2008 draft crop, both Sam Blease and James Strauss suffered broken legs that kept them out for the length of a season and hindered their development. Tom Scully was headhunted by GWS with a $1m plus bounty which the player could hardly resist and Melbourne was never going to match. They ignore facts such as the information in a recent Herald Sun article that place Melbourne close to the bottom of the list of father/son recruits. Compare this with Geelong, the most successful club of the recent era, which received an enormous boost with its sons of former players. The coaches, boards and recruiting officers in place at the time of the club's "bad" recruiting decisions have now moved on. Why make the task of returning the club to competitiveness more difficult for those now in charge? Surely, the fact that the club is overhauling its coaching and recruiting systems and personnel today should bear more weight on the Commission's decision to help out than the fact that it picked Cale Morton at pick four ahead of Cyril Rioli in 2007? The suggestion that Melbourne must suffer again as a result of the events of 2009 for which it was penalised in February with heavy financial sanctions and penalties for officials is risible. The Demons' application is made because the team needs assistance in the here and now and it is inappropriate that it be penalised twice (or three times if you include the Scully fiasco) to feed the greed and altruism of rival clubs who claim that a priority pick would upset the integrity of the AFL draft. The argument of the so-called "objecting" clubs comes across as rather hypocritical coming from some of them. It was only a year or two ago that the new franchises gained a swag of early draft picks (and not just the one that the Demons are requesting) which pushed struggling clubs like Melbourne off the map when it came to securing good draft picks in those years. Hawthorn faces the prospect of losing free agent Lance Franklin at the end of the year but is it likely that Newbold will knock back a compensation draft pick (most likely in the first round) if Buddy takes the money and runs? The same thing will happen with Collingwood if Dale Thomas heads off to Carlton. Coincidentally, Thomas was a priority pick taken by Collingwood which lost its last eight matches in 2005 to snaffle that pick. The Pies somehow managed to avoid the scrutiny of an AFL investigation into that effort. All of this begs the question of the purpose of the AFL rules relating to draft assistance which are designed to help teams in need to become more competitive. Melbourne is such a team and if the Commission refuses the Demons' request for help then the rule must be scrapped because the AFL would be giving into the greed and altruism of its own clubs as it did in years gone past and, on that basis, no other AFL club will ever qualify again.

WJ deals with the straw man argument in GREED AND ALTRUISM RULES THE AFL OVER DRAFT ASSISTANCE

GREED AND ALTRUISM RULES THE AFL OVER DRAFT ASSISTANCE by Whispering Jack Last month, Hawthorn's president Andrew Newbold accompanied Andrew Demetriou and others to the US on an AFL-equalisation study tour. On his return, one of his first public comments was to slam the idea that the cash strapped and success-starved Melbourne Football Club should be the recipient of any financial or draft assistance from the AFL. I don't believe he mentioned anything about Melbourne, the Bulldogs or even North Melbourne being offered better fixtures along the lines that his club and the other big boys currently enjoy; no extra Friday night games to attract more sponsorship and supporters and no reduction in dead fixture times such as Sunday twilight and the like. In fact, Newbold offered no solutions in respect of the equalisation problem at all. On that basis, it's not difficult to conclude that Newbold is a hypocrite and that the AFL trip was indeed a junket, as many suggested at the time. Instead of helping clubs in need, we are witnessing a flexing of muscles by the president of one of the stronger clubs seeking to maintain the status quo. All this, despite the fact that we are often told that it's in the AFL's interests for all clubs to be more competitive. The fact that Demetriou himself has highlighted that the clubs oppose Melbourne's application suggests that the AFL constituent clubs are reverting to the selfish, greedy partisan politics that prevailed before the AFL Commission was formed - Clubs oppose priority draft pick for Melbourne . The AFL (then VFL) Commission was created in 1985 to administer the competition and its constitution. In the main, it has retained its independence from the constituent clubs (which was its raison d'être in the first place) but the authority of the Commission and its independence is now under attack over the issue of whether the Melbourne Football Club should receive a priority draft selection as a result of its consistently poor performances over the period 2007-2013. During this seven year period, the club's best efforts have been 8½ wins (twice) and otherwise, there have been five seasons in which it recorded between 2 and 5 wins per year. In the season just completed, the club won two matches and finished with a percentage of 54.07. This would have easily qualified Melbourne for a priority pick under the AFL rules that applied in most years prior to the 2012 season onwards but today, clubs can only receive such draft assistance at the discretion of the AFL Commission. The specific criteria have not been announced but it is understood that "a more complicated formula will be used, which takes into account premiership points, percentage, finals appearances and injury rates for a club over several seasons". - AFL overhauls priority pick system The reaction of the opposition clubs to Melbourne's application for assistance has been worrying. The problem I have with the objectors is that they are based on slanted opinions about Melbourne's recruiting performance and ignore the substantive points which the Commission is supposed to take into account in making its decision on draft assistance. And, they place too much weight on the controversy resulting from the AFL's selective "tanking investigation" into events that took place at one club during 2009 even though several others have had their own practices questioned without any scrutiny or investigation. There is little doubt that the club's recruiting performance over the past decade or so has been disappointing (the application for assistance would be unnecessary if it were otherwise) but these assessments fail to take into account several factors. They ignore serious injuries to early picks - for example, of the 2008 draft crop, both Sam Blease and James Strauss suffered broken legs that kept them out for the length of a season and hindered their development. Tom Scully was headhunted by GWS with a $1m plus bounty which the player could hardly resist and Melbourne was never going to match. They ignore facts such as the information in a recent Herald Sun article that place Melbourne close to the bottom of the list of father/son recruits. Compare this with Geelong, the most successful club of the recent era, which received an enormous boost with its sons of former players. The coaches, boards and recruiting officers in place at the time of the club's "bad" recruiting decisions have now moved on. Why make the task of returning the club to competitiveness more difficult for those now in charge? Surely, the fact that the club is overhauling its coaching and recruiting systems and personnel today should bear more weight on the Commission's decision to help out than the fact that it picked Cale Morton at pick four ahead of Cyril Rioli in 2007? The suggestion that Melbourne must suffer again as a result of the events of 2009 for which it was penalised in February with heavy financial sanctions and penalties for officials is risible. The Demons' application is made because the team needs assistance in the here and now and it is inappropriate that it be penalised twice (or three times if you include the Scully fiasco) to feed the greed and altruism of rival clubs who claim that a priority pick would upset the integrity of the AFL draft. The argument of the so-called "objecting" clubs comes across as rather hypocritical coming from some of them. It was only a year or two ago that the new franchises gained a swag of early draft picks (and not just the one that the Demons are requesting) which pushed struggling clubs like Melbourne off the map when it came to securing good draft picks in those years. Hawthorn faces the prospect of losing free agent Lance Franklin at the end of the year but is it likely that Newbold will knock back a compensation draft pick (most likely in the first round) if Buddy takes the money and runs? The same thing will happen with Collingwood if Dale Thomas heads off to Carlton. Coincidentally, Thomas was a priority pick taken by Collingwood which lost its last eight matches in 2005 to snaffle that pick. The Pies somehow managed to avoid the scrutiny of an AFL investigation into that effort. All of this begs the question of the purpose of the AFL rules relating to draft assistance which are designed to help teams in need to become more competitive. Melbourne is such a team and if the Commission refuses the Demons' request for help then the rule must be scrapped because the AFL would be giving into the greed and altruism of its own clubs as it did in years gone past and, on that basis, no other AFL club will ever qualify again.

If you are happy for me to pass over your IP Address if we get sued for your libelous accusations then I will uncensor your posts.

Don't worry I plan to blow up the whole Internet when I leave Demonland. If I can't have it then no one can have anything online. Bwaahahaaaa.

Parents of children should be monitoring their childrens online browsing habits. It is their responsibility not mine. The ads form a part of our revenue and as I said previously we cannot control the browsing habits of visitors in regards to click throughs they make after they leave the site. We do not link to pornographic or gaming sites nor are we morality police. The ads that appear for you will not necessarily appear for the next person as most of the ads generated are based on that individuals browsing habits and the profile that google has created for you based on those habits. I and Demonland have no control over that. For more information see here: https://support.google.com/adsense/answer/9713?hl=en

Instructions on changing you password on Demonland (Note you only need to do this if you share the same username and password on Demonland and Demonology) Click on your Username at the top of the page on the right hand side. A box with drop down with further options. Click on My Settings and a new page will open up. On the left hand side is an option to change Email and Password. Click Email and Password and change your password and click Save.

My suggestion is to change your password on Demonland.

I can't log in there either.

Just a word of warning to any joint Demonland and Demonology members, particularly if you share the same username and password, please change your password on this site. You can do that by going into your profile. PM me if you need assistance. Your passwords on Demonology might not be encrypted. All passwords on Demonland are encrypted. It would be prudent to change them here to avoid your account being hijacked. This is just a precaution and not based on anything else.

Please stop posting the personal details of people on this site. I know the information can be acquired publicly but that doesn't mean you can repost it here. You can wage your wars elsewhere.

Tom McDonald says he can't wait to play under Roos, after having a meeting with him on Monday - http://www.melbournefc.com.au/melbourne/news/2013-09-12/mcdonald-rapt-with-roos-on-board Jack Grimes hopes to continue his leadership position under Paul Roos - http://www.melbournefc.com.au/melbourne/news/2013-09-12/i-want-to-stay-skipper-under-roos-grimes I will post any other stories about players talking about Roos here.

Not sure if you've heard but we have a new coach.

Now it is official if it wasn't already: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/melbourne/news/2013-09-11/allison-joins-melbourne-coaching-panel

Another short article: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-09-11/roos-makes-a-move?utm_medium=RSS

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/paul-roos-recruits-former-sydney-development-coach-brett-allison-from-north-melbourne/story-fni5f91a-1226716648138?from=herald+sun_rss

Same thing is happening at times with me too. Any suggestions Nasher?

Better today. It was slow as dogs balls as they say from around 4pm til about 7pm.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-09-09/craig-set-to-leave-dees?utm_medium=RSS

Just out of interest what ISP are the people experiencing issues with? Last time we had issues it was just bigpond customers. Just want to see if it is one ISP or everyone.

I'm experiencing periodical slowness. I have sent a text message to Nasher and no doubt he will get onto as soon as he can. We have lives & families too .... sometimes.

Ha Ha

For the third successive season, the Werribee Tigers bundled the Casey Scorpions out of the VFL finals series in straight sets in their semi-final at North Port Oval. The loss was Casey's 10th consecutive finals loss since 2008 and its ninth on end since taking on its alignment with Melbourne. Whatever was the case in previous seasons, the Scorpions were certainly desperately unlucky on the injury front this year. They had nine Demons in their team against the Tigers but lost a similar number of qualified players to injuries and/or retirements in the past month including young goal kicking sensation Jesse Hogan. But let's leave the excuses aside because Casey started well enough and held a two goal lead at the 20 minute mark of the second term before lapses of concentration, poor decision making and sloppy use of the football let their opponents back into the game to lead at the main break and then consolidate to take control in the all-important third quarter. This all took place despite the Scorpions dominating the hit outs through the agency of Max Gawn who gave Tom Couch (38 disposals) and the heavily tagged James Magner (33) clear superiority at the stoppages. Unfortunately, it was the Tigers who often mopped up the Scorpions mistakes allowing their midfield to work back into the game. Werribee's greater accuracy in front of goal was also a factor - they rarely missed while some of the Casey forwards were making a meal out of relatively easy shots in front of goals. Earlier, Tim Smith was dangerous up forward with four first half goals but he was also needed as a foil for Gawn in the ruck and, as a consequence, had little impact after half time. Neville Jetta was strong for most of the game running out of defence, skipper Evan Panozza worked hard to shut down the opposition forwards and James Sellar was good whilst down back. Jake Best who has been a revelation as a small goal kicking forward was kept in check for most of the game but broke out of his shell for two goals in the third quarter. Rohan Welsh did a terrific job with the team given that its financial position at the beginning of the year was precarious preventing it from going out to recruit big name players. He got the most of the players at his disposal whether they were Demons or VFL listed Scorpions - a fantastic achievement given what was happening with the Melbourne Football Club earlier in the season. In my opinion, he ranks among the best of the VFL coaches on his performance throughout the season. 2013 Peter Jackson VFL Casey Scorpions4.3.27 7.6.48 9.10.64 12.12.84 Werribee Tigers 5.2.32 9.4.58 15.5.95 19.10.124 Goals Casey Scorpions Smith 4 Best 2 Gent Gillies Lindsay Magner Petropoulos Taggert Werribee Tigers Maric Warren 4 Davis 2 Bolton Brown Clouston McDonald Martiniello Meredith Ross Sherlock Sullivan Ross Best Casey Scorpions Jetta Smith Riseley Petropoulos Panozza Sellar Werribee Tigers Clouston Maric Ross Bolton Moore Sierakowski Final Stats Couch 38 Magner 32 Petropoulos 23 Jetta Plummer J Tynan 18 L Tynan 17 Bail 16

STRAIGHT SETS by KC from Casey For the third successive season, the Werribee Tigers bundled the Casey Scorpions out of the VFL finals series in straight sets in their semi-final at North Port Oval. The loss was Casey's 10th consecutive finals loss since 2008 and its ninth on end since taking on its alignment with Melbourne. Whatever was the case in previous seasons, the Scorpions were certainly desperately unlucky on the injury front this year. They had nine Demons in their team against the Tigers but lost a similar number of qualified players to injuries and/or retirements in the past month including young goal kicking sensation Jesse Hogan. But let's leave the excuses aside because Casey started well enough and held a two goal lead at the 20 minute mark of the second term before lapses of concentration, poor decision making and sloppy use of the football let their opponents back into the game to lead at the main break and then consolidate to take control in the all-important third quarter. This all took place despite the Scorpions dominating the hit outs through the agency of Max Gawn who gave Tom Couch (38 disposals) and the heavily tagged James Magner (33) clear superiority at the stoppages. Unfortunately, it was the Tigers who often mopped up the Scorpions mistakes allowing their midfield to work back into the game. Werribee's greater accuracy in front of goal was also a factor - they rarely missed while some of the Casey forwards were making a meal out of relatively easy shots in front of goals. Earlier, Tim Smith was dangerous up forward with four first half goals but he was also needed as a foil for Gawn in the ruck and, as a consequence, had little impact after half time. Neville Jetta was strong for most of the game running out of defence, skipper Evan Panozza worked hard to shut down the opposition forwards and James Sellar was good whilst down back. Jake Best who has been a revelation as a small goal kicking forward was kept in check for most of the game but broke out of his shell for two goals in the third quarter. Rohan Welsh did a terrific job with the team given that its financial position at the beginning of the year was precarious preventing it from going out to recruit big name players. He got the most of the players at his disposal whether they were Demons or VFL listed Scorpions - a fantastic achievement given what was happening with the Melbourne Football Club earlier in the season. In my opinion, he ranks among the best of the VFL coaches on his performance throughout the season. 2013 Peter Jackson VFL Casey Scorpions4.3.27 7.6.48 9.10.64 12.12.84 Werribee Tigers 5.2.32 9.4.58 15.5.95 19.10.124 Goals Casey Scorpions Smith 4 Best 2 Gent Gillies Lindsay Magner Petropoulos Taggert Werribee Tigers Maric Warren 4 Davis 2 Bolton Brown Clouston McDonald Martiniello Meredith Ross Sherlock Sullivan Ross Best Casey Scorpions Jetta Smith Riseley Petropoulos Panozza Sellar Werribee Tigers Clouston Maric Ross Bolton Moore Sierakowski Final Stats Couch 38 Magner 32 Petropoulos 23 Jetta Plummer J Tynan 18 L Tynan 17 Bail 16