The Soccer thread

[Macca 17,013]

Hammers knock of Liverpool (again) in the FA cup ... Blackburn next

I reckon the only way the FA cup can be brought back to it's former glory is to offer the 4th Champions league spot to the winner of the cup ... ok, it's a "playoff" spot for the group stages in the Champions league but it would be a big incentive, all the same.

Every year we hear the same complaints about most of the Premier league teams not putting out their best teams in the FA cup but that's not going to change unless those clubs are incentivised. The Premier league with all it's riches rules (big $$$$'s for just being involved, Champions league spots)

[Grapeviney 9,731]

20 hours ago, Macca said:

Hammers knock of Liverpool (again) in the FA cup ... Blackburn next

I reckon the only way the FA cup can be brought back to it's former glory is to offer the 4th Champions league spot to the winner of the cup ... ok, it's a "playoff" spot for the group stages in the Champions league but it would be a big incentive, all the same.

Every year we hear the same complaints about most of the Premier league teams not putting out their best teams in the FA cup but that's not going to change unless those clubs are incentivised. The Premier league with all it's riches rules (big $$$$'s for just being involved, Champions league spots)

Only downside to that idea Macca is that you're effectively robbing Peter to pay Paul, as it then becomes harder to qualify through the League (4th spot becomes Europa). Then again, the top EPL spots are usually occupied by the same clubs year after year, whereas the battlers tend to have more of a chance of making it through to the FA Cup final, so it would be a nice carrot for the lower-ranked EPL teams, a backdoor into Europe.

But as you've pointed out on the previous page, the top clubs have such busy schedules that something has to give somewhere, in one of the comps. Spurs probably care little for their current Europa campaign, but City and Arsenal would definitely be prioritising Champions League ahead of FA Cup.

 

[Macca 17,013]

2 hours ago, Grapeviney said:

Only downside to that idea Macca is that you're effectively robbing Peter to pay Paul, as it then becomes harder to qualify through the League (4th spot becomes Europa). Then again, the top EPL spots are usually occupied by the same clubs year after year, whereas the battlers tend to have more of a chance of making it through to the FA Cup final, so it would be a nice carrot for the lower-ranked EPL teams, a backdoor into Europe.

But as you've pointed out on the previous page, the top clubs have such busy schedules that something has to give somewhere, in one of the comps. Spurs probably care little for their current Europa campaign, but City and Arsenal would definitely be prioritising Champions League ahead of FA Cup.

 

Yeah, I'd already thought that one through 'GV' (kinda, sorta)

I don't believe it dilutes the EPL that much but it would resurrect the FA cup (in theory) ... so, it's not so much robbing Peter to pay Paul but more making sure that there are 2 competitions in England that are absolutely viable and vibrant.

The whole idea is to lift the FA to it's once former glory ... the idea is one that I'm passing on too - it's thrown up a lot in England and has been bandied about for a number of years now ... the other bit to remember is how UEFA would view such a scheme.

It's now getting to a point where more & more of the fans of the big clubs see the FA cup as clogging up an already busy schedule - the talk is constantly about qualifying for Champions league - well, give the FA cup winner the 4th Champions league spot and those fans would then want their club to win the FA cup (again, in theory)

By the way, whilst I'm very happy that my Hammers defeated Liverpool in the 4th round replay a couple of days ago, it should be noted that Liverpool played an under strength side themselves (as they did in the first encounter at Anfield)

The idea would make it a lot harder for a battling club to win the FA cup but back in the day when the FA cup was treated very seriously, the winner wasn't always one of the bigger clubs. 

Oddly enough, of the big clubs, (the money clubs) only Liverpool are missing from the 5th round this year ... but, most or all of the big clubs have been playing 2nd string sides for years now (with the odd exception - Arsenal?) The fans are torn between wanting to see some silverware whilst keeping a firm eye on higher stakes.

Fifth Round draw

1. Chelsea v Man City
2. Reading v West Bromwich Albion
3. Watford v Leeds United
4. Shrewsbury v Man Utd
5. Blackburn v West Ham
6. Tottenham v Crystal Palace
7. Arsenal v Hull City
8. Bournemouth v Everton

 

[Grapeviney 9,731]

Cracking night of football, with both games delivering in spades and plenty of controversy surrounding the penalties in each match.

Leicester have only themselves to blame, not just with Simpson's send-off but also the final, crude challenge which led to the winning goal. But for that, they would have had 3 away wins against their 3 challengers in the 7 weeks since Christmas, when they knocked off Spurs at WHL. 

It's hard to see the top 4 changing at this stage, even though United are only 2 wins behind City with 12 weeks to play, and one wonders what's going to happen to LVG, and when. 

[Macca 17,013]

Now we're set for the run in to the finish ... every week the order of the top 4 might change.

FA cup (round 5) next weekend but here's the EPL schedule for the next 30 days.

It's worth repeating that Leicester are the only team amongst the top 4 who have Premier league commitments only. Injuries aside, the foxes can pick their best team without having to worry about resting any of their players (in theory)

Spurs vs Arsenal in a duel to the finish? Are there 2 groups of fans who dislike each other more intensely? Man City need to get on a roll ... they've already lost 7 games and their next 2 (EPL) are @ Newcastle then @ Liverpool.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Macca

[Grapeviney 9,731]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

 

It's worth repeating that Leicester are the only team amongst the top 4 who have Premier league commitments only. Injuries aside, the foxes can pick their best team without having to worry about resting any of their players (in theory)

 

Yep, I think they said last night that they've lined up with the same team and bench for the past 7 league games; the combination of a rested and stable team could be telling in the end. 

I know we're still a long way off, but Leicester play Chelsea at Stamford Bridge in the final round. Putting my allegiances to the side, wouldn't it be a fairytale ending to an already amazing story if they had to beat the reigning champions away on the last day of the season to win the title? 

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

I won't mention suspect penalty decisions if the grape doesn't mention how crap Arsenal are at getting round the bus when the opposition parks it. Things might have tightened up at the top but like others here I still fancy Leicester's chances. They're playing with real desire and with real belief in each other (I'm not sure what 'playing above themselves' would entail but they're probably doing that as well).

On 15/2/2016 at 10:40 PM, Macca said:

Spurs vs Arsenal in a duel to the finish? Are there 2 groups of fans who dislike each other more intensely?

Those local rivalries oop north (Liverpool/Everton, Newcastle/Sunderland) are pretty fierce ... in fact, just about anywhere with a strong working class heritage. Newcastle on a Saturday night is a truly frightening place and it's even more frightening if there's a derby game on. But the cake would have to belong to Rangers and Celtic since they've also got the religious dimension to them (there are vestiges of that in Liverpool/Everton because of the Irish influence ... Arsenal were also the team of the London Irish once upon a time, but I'm not sure how significant that might be in the dispute over north London sovereignty).

[Macca 17,013]

4 hours ago, Dr John Dee said:

I won't mention suspect penalty decisions if the grape doesn't mention how crap Arsenal are at getting round the bus when the opposition parks it. Things might have tightened up at the top but like others here I still fancy Leicester's chances. They're playing with real desire and with real belief in each other (I'm not sure what 'playing above themselves' would entail but they're probably doing that as well).

Those local rivalries oop north (Liverpool/Everton, Newcastle/Sunderland) are pretty fierce ... in fact, just about anywhere with a strong working class heritage. Newcastle on a Saturday night is a truly frightening place and it's even more frightening if there's a derby game on. But the cake would have to belong to Rangers and Celtic since they've also got the religious dimension to them (there are vestiges of that in Liverpool/Everton because of the Irish influence ... Arsenal were also the team of the London Irish once upon a time, but I'm not sure how significant that might be in the dispute over north London sovereignty).

Outside of the UK there are the fierce rivalries in Milan and Madrid (AC & Inter as well as Athletico & Real) 

There's probably a stack more but I've heard that there's any number in Argentina & Brazil. 

Not forgetting the Man Utd & Liverpool rivalry which goes way back. 

As for the title race, Man City won the title after coming from 8 points behind 2 years ago but ... they'll need to get on a winning streak asap. 

One could make a case for any of the top 4 teams prevailing ... I'm hoping it comes down to the final match-day (which, for those who don't know is May 15th - Sunday night ... midnight AEST) ... so, we've 3 more months left - it's a long season.

 

Edited February 17, 2016 by Macca

[Grapeviney 9,731]

A number of years ago, SBS put together a great 4-part series called Height of Passion which focussed on four rivalries - AC vs Inter, Real v Barca, River Plate v Boca and Vasco da Gama vs Flamengo. Was a bit odd they didn't include any of the English derbies, although at that time I think Serie A was still considered the best league in Europe.

Anyway, it's a good doco hosted by Les Murray with plenty of highlights but also a lot of background and cultural info on how the rivalries developed and how they play out. You can watch it through YouTube.

I've always had a fascination with big stadiums, large crowds and great atmosphere, and one day hope to travel through Europe and / or South America and go to the big games. Edit: I've been to Camp Nou, but it was just a stadium tour (still amazing). 

Even the lesser-light leagues have their great grudge matches, such as Olympiakos-Panathinaikos in Greece and Galatasaray-Fenerbahce in Turkey. Would be great to catch some Bundesliga action, too, as virtually all their games are sell-outs.

These kinds of images give me goosebumps.

River Plate stadium in Buenos Aires:

 

'La Bombonera' in Beunos Aires, home to Boca:

 

Borussia Dortmund:

 

 

This Youtube channel has lots of great 'atmosphere' clips from around the world under the 'stadium atmosphere' sub-heading: https://www.youtube.com/user/Partofthegametv/featured 

 

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

On 16/2/2016 at 10:37 AM, Macca said:

Outside of the UK there are the fierce rivalries in Milan and Madrid (AC & Inter as well as Athletico & Real) 

There's probably a stack more but I've heard that there's any number in Argentina & Brazil. 

Not forgetting the Man Utd & Liverpool rivalry which goes way back. 

As for the title race, Man City won the title after coming from 8 points behind 2 years ago but ... they'll need to get on a winning streak asap. 

One could make a case for any of the top 4 teams prevailing ... I'm hoping it comes down to the final match-day (which, for those who don't know is May 15th - Sunday night ... midnight AEST) ... so, we've 3 more months left - it's a long season.

 

That was certainly given momentum during all those years that City were rubbish. We stayed in Manchester for around 6 weeks at one stage and fell largely among City supporters since we were circulating mainly with academics, artists, inner city types. They were pretty aggrieved that United fans regarded them as largely beneath contempt, and their response had been to develop a pride in 'authenticity' and localism according to which United were only interested in the big stage and attracting supporters who didn't give a stuff about Manchester, the city, its traditions and so on. They're not singing that tune any more and while the last couple of derbies I've seen have been up to scale on the pitch the intensity of crowd rivalry doesn't seem particularly feverish. Perhaps the City fans are still a bit embarrassed at how easily they were bought off.

On 17/2/2016 at 1:31 PM, Grapeviney said:

A number of years ago, SBS put together a great 4-part series called Height of Passion which focussed on four rivalries - AC vs Inter, Real v Barca, River Plate v Boca and Vasco da Gama vs Flamengo. Was a bit odd they didn't include any of the English derbies, although at that time I think Serie A was still considered the best league in Europe.

Anyway, it's a good doco hosted by Les Murray with plenty of highlights but also a lot of background and cultural info on how the rivalries developed and how they play out. You can watch it through YouTube.

I've always had a fascination with big stadiums, large crowds and great atmosphere, and one day hope to travel through Europe and / or South America and go to the big games. Edit: I've been to Camp Nou, but it was just a stadium tour (still amazing). 

Even the lesser-light leagues have their great grudge matches, such as Olympiakos-Panathinaikos in Greece and Galatasaray-Fenerbahce in Turkey. Would be great to catch some Bundesliga action, too, as virtually all their games are sell-outs.

These kinds of images give me goosebumps.

River Plate stadium in Buenos Aires:

 

This Youtube channel has lots of great 'atmosphere' clips from around the world under the 'stadium atmosphere' sub-heading: https://www.youtube.com/user/Partofthegametv/featured 

Where we were staying, in the curiously named suburb of Chorlton-cum-Hardy, we were about a mile from Old Trafford. While the Theatre of Dreams isn't on the scale in size terms of some of the auditoriums you mention, the place doesn't seem to notice. United played A.C. Milan one night when I was supposed to be working so I didn't turn the tv on. It didn't matter much. I opened the window and the crowd noise, which was extraordinary at that distance, told me everything. A sort of haphazard symphony of human emotions and – inevitably given United's standing at the time – exultations.

This morning I read that they've gone down to Midtjylland. There's so much writing on the wall now that it's falling off and running down the street.

 

[Macca 17,013]

Man Utd lose to Midtjyland (who?) in the Europa League ... what is going on at Old Trafford? 

Anyway, the rumours are getting stronger that Mourinho will be managing United ... what other high profile managers would be available anyway?

I'm not sure he's a great fit but there's no denying the impact he continually has wherever he has gone (his tenures' also only seem to have a shelf life of about 3 years)

This article from the Daily Express indicates that he'll end up at Man Utd but who knows?

Edited February 20, 2016 by Macca

[Grapeviney 9,731]

On 16 February 2016 at 9:55 AM, Dr John Dee said:

I won't mention suspect penalty decisions if the grape doesn't mention how crap Arsenal are at getting round the bus when the opposition parks it. 

I noticed that the soccer team I support is playing the soccer team you support at my team's home ground in a couple of weeks.

Do you think Arsene will field his strongest side or are you guys just concentrating on the FA Cup again this year? 

On a serious note, Macca's point about the diminished status of that competition was on display over the weekend, with City sending out a bunch of kids to be thrashed by Chelsea, and Arsenal (who play Barca in the CL tomorrow morning) and Hull (focussed on promotion) also both fielding weakened teams.  

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

On 23/2/2016 at 5:02 PM, Grapeviney said:

I noticed that the soccer team I support is playing the soccer team you support at my team's home ground in a couple of weeks.

Do you think Arsene will field his strongest side or are you guys just concentrating on the FA Cup again this year? 

On a serious note, Macca's point about the diminished status of that competition was on display over the weekend, with City sending out a bunch of kids to be thrashed by Chelsea, and Arsenal (who play Barca in the CL tomorrow morning) and Hull (focussed on promotion) also both fielding weakened teams.  

I doubt whether anyone would have been prepared to try to calculate the odds of the season turning on a showdown at White Hart Lane at this stage. Whoever wins is obviously going to be in a good position to chase Leicester, the losers can lapse into their usual recriminations about Wenger not buying enough quality defensive players.

On current form I’d have to concede that Spurs are far better placed although at least we’ll soon have the Champions League off the agenda in case there’s any chance of a Gunners’ chase. A draw is obviously unthinkable on either side and will probably be enough to hand the title to Leicester.

If we lose I’ll obviously be throwing my weight behind the Foxes. Nothing against Spurs, you understand …

[Grapeviney 9,731]

Massive week coming up, with Leicester in the box seat to maintain top spot and even increase their lead over their challengers. 

City (@Liverpool) and Tottenham (@West Ham) both have tough midweek matches, with Spurs then hosting Arsenal on the weekend, while the Foxes would be expecting to win against both West Bromwich and Watford. 

City took out the first piece of silverware for the year, beating Liverpool on penalties in the League Cup final. 

[Macca 17,013]

On 2/29/2016 at 8:54 PM, Grapeviney said:

Massive week coming up, with Leicester in the box seat to maintain top spot and even increase their lead over their challengers. 

City (@Liverpool) and Tottenham (@West Ham) both have tough midweek matches, with Spurs then hosting Arsenal on the weekend, while the Foxes would be expecting to win against both West Bromwich and Watford. 

City took out the first piece of silverware for the year, beating Liverpool on penalties in the League Cup final. 

Reckon it's going to be like this every week right up until the last day 'Gv' ... all the teams in contention can drop points anytime - it's been that sort of season. And more than one of the 4 teams could go on an unbeaten run - but the teams will be chasing 3 points - a draw is now like a loss.

Teams like my Hammers will want to throw a spanner in the works too (no pun intended!) ... It's been reported that Sakho will finally reappear in Thursday morning's clash against your lads ... should be a great game too. Sakho will probably make an appearance late in the game - he'll need to be guarded well. Same with Payet. 

I've got a feeling that Man City might mount a real charge ... but first they need to win at Anfield - no easy task. Arsenal just have to win vs Swansea too.

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

Wenger out!

(At least fourth spot should be safe. I hope.)

City see a hurdle in front of them and fall over it as well. And now we can add Spurs. Spurs might at least be able to pick themselves up and stay with the chase. I predicted last night in the safety of my own lounge room that Arsenal wouldn't get past Swansea. There's no danger in predicting they won't leave White Hart Lane with anything that looks like a point. 

Depressed? Nah, I'm a Melbourne supporter after all. Arsenal disappointments are just a sideshow.

 

[Macca 17,013]

11 hours ago, Dr John Dee said:

Wenger out!

(At least fourth spot should be safe. I hope.)

City see a hurdle in front of them and fall over it as well. And now we can add Spurs. Spurs might at least be able to pick themselves up and stay with the chase. I predicted last night in the safety of my own lounge room that Arsenal wouldn't get past Swansea. There's no danger in predicting they won't leave White Hart Lane with anything that looks like a point. 

Depressed? Nah, I'm a Melbourne supporter after all. Arsenal disappointments are just a sideshow.

 

It was quite an incredible morning with regards to the results ... the biggest shock was your team losing but the impact was felt all over ... and now Chelsea and Man Utd are hovering. Does any team really want to win the title apart from Leicester?

Here's a decent synopsis of the top 4 teams chances (from the BBC website) ... Premier League: Fate, romance, the perfect farewell? Who wins the title? ... even my Hammers are given some sort of chance of snaring 4th spot whilst Man Utd are now level on points with Man City. 

 

[Macca 17,013]

And so to the big game in just over an hour ... Spurs vs Gunners. A draw is not a good result for either side (especially if Leicester win at Watford later on) A win to Arsenal probably means more to the Gunners than a loss would mean to Tottenham (if Arsenal win then they would draw level on points with Spurs) 

In all reality both teams need to go all out for a win as they can't rely on Leicester dropping points ... so I'm expecting an attacking game with lots of goal scoring opportunities - meanwhile, Man City should defeat Villa whilst Man Utd have a tough one at West Brom. My Hammers have an equally tough game at Everton but we can win.

Anyway, I'll be tuning in to the Spurs/Gunners game on cable but to listen to the live broadcast of the game go here ... talksport.com ... then follow the links. A local derby with it all to play for. 

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

9 hours ago, Macca said:

 

 ... Spurs vs Gunners. A draw is not a good result for either side (especially if Leicester win at Watford later on) ...

Oh, well. 

The Foxes go marching on. 

[Grapeviney 9,731]

Had a wedding in Sydney last night so only just caught up with the action now, after avoiding the scores all day. 

Given the circumstances, Arsenal will be relieved while Spurs will see it as a golden opportunity that got away. Kane's goal was a beauty, and with momentum on their side, Tottenham really should have gone on with it from there. 

Looks like it was a cracking finish from your boys at Goodison Park, Macca. 

[Macca 17,013]

12 minutes ago, Grapeviney said:

Had a wedding in Sydney last night so only just caught up with the action now, after avoiding the scores all day. 

Given the circumstances, Arsenal will be relieved while Spurs will see it as a golden opportunity that got away. Kane's goal was a beauty, and with momentum on their side, Tottenham really should have gone on with it from there. 

Looks like it was a cracking finish from your boys at Goodison Park, Macca. 

Yeah, I'm officially excited and it's a very strange feeling ... unknown territory. A bit like our Demons in '87 after only knowing mediocre seasons for so long.

The truth is we've got 5 very winnable games of the 9 remaining fixtures when considering how well the team is playing (vs Arsenal, @ Leicester, @ Chelsea & vs Man Utd will all be very tough but we might even snag a win and a draw or 2 out of those 4 games)

Then, we'll need 2 of the other 5 teams to really slip up but who knows? Sakho is already making a difference after coming back from injury. It's just great to be part of the conversation.

The Spurs/Arsenal game had draw written all over it but Leicester gained another 2 points on both sides ... the Foxes are not over the line yet though ... Ranieri will need to use all his experience and guile to guide them through.

And yes, it was a wonderful goal by Harry Kane - one of the best of the season.

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

And now the 'ammers clear in fifth. You can be officially excited Macca, I'm now officially nervous ... about fourth spot.

[Cards13 9,117]

The question is can Liverpool sneak into 4th... Who knows with this bunch but I do hope so.

[Macca 17,013]

27 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

The question is can Liverpool sneak into 4th... Who knows with this bunch but I do hope so.

And you've got a game in hand too Cards ... what is your run home like? 

[Cards13 9,117]

2 hours ago, Macca said:

And you've got a game in hand too Cards ... what is your run home like? 

Every game winnable, every game losable...

next 2 games against MU in Europa with Saints 3 days after the second game, Chelsea fixture is TBC, Spurs but the rest against teams we "should beat"....