If we lose Craig Cameron we are stuffed

[Chook 15,001]

Oh my god, you are a tool YM.

You are so full of [censored], please leave the board.

All you do is bag the players, and the Demons are like SO awesome and we will win the next 50 flags cos we are perfect.

Go away you tool, mods please ban him!

LOL! Closest thing to an "I was wrong" you'll ever read from Yze Magic. Even the "great" get it wrong sometimes.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Does this bloke ever get it wrong?

Dunn, Bate, Jones, McLean, Sylvia, Davey, Petterd, Bartram, Frawley, Buckley, Newton .....

CAC, we love you.

Please do not leave. You are BY FAR the most important man at the club, and you should ask for a pay rise, and get it.

I beg to differ.

What's the difference between our current list and any other teams list that is going through or has been through a rebuilding phase?

We have not drafted a team of Selwoods, Rioli's, Franklins and Rhys Palmer's?

If we had then it would be fair to say we can't lose this guy.

We have picked some players that are above average and we have some young guys that have shown glimpses.

I still worry about a lot of guys in our team.

Bate - Bad year. In my opinion he has to work on A LOT to get to into the category that some people on this site have him in.

(Gun, Star, some of the names I have heard).

Having said that, I know he CAN produce good games.

Jones - Like Bate has shown he can play. We all know he is an animal and would never question his hardness. Foot skills seem to be a problem on the odd occasion.

Was tagged much of this year.

Mclean - I would say when fit, he is pretty much our best and most important player. Gun player when fit.

Sylvia - We still don't know? Had a pretty good season this year considering his niggling injuries. Will he ever show us what people say he is capable of?

Davey - Another player with a bad year. But I think he is one of our best and most important players when up and running.

Petterd - I think many melbourne supporters get really excited when they see a young player have a good game. They immediately make predictions and most of

them are that the player will be the next big thing. Petterd has shown he can play too. Well rounded player. Good skills, attack on the ball, positioning and

awareness.

Bartram, Frawley and Newton - I think these three are the least exciting youngsters we have. Bartrams first year was great I thought but it has been down hill from

then on. Frawley doesn't look like a natural footballer and I think the name helped him make it to this level. (his height helped him

too) Don't rate him. And Newton. It looks like he is a self centered idiot that just wants to take a screamer every game.

I would say junior footy was a breeze for him so he doesn't know what it takes to make it at this level. He has never really had to

try it seems? He can mark and kick goals. And he is not even that great at accomplishing these things. Having said that. I know

these guys are very young and have a lot of room for improvement. (I hope so at least) !!

Buckley - This was easily and obviously his best year. He really excites me and he is my favorite player out of our young ones. He reminds me of judd the way he

plays. Foot skills again his week link. But I believe he out of all our youngsters could become the head of the pack. Personal opinion everyone !!

So basically Y_M, in my opinion and experience of playing this great game to a relatively high standard. You have to be a pretty damn good player to be drafted.

And an even better player to be in the top 20. I don't have the stats, but I would predict that most, if not all the players you have just mentioned were top 20-25 players in the draft with a few being top 10. In conclusion, these players are all going to have some ability. I don't think you can solely say that CAC is the saviour.

Any and every club with draft picks from the top 20 will pick a bunch of players that can play. Of course some will be bad eggs and others will be gems.

I don't believe it matters who takes over.

[Nasher 33,607]

It's always pretty funny when people write a very lengthy response to a post from a year and a half ago, about how wrong it was.

[Chook 15,001]

It's always pretty funny when people write a very lengthy response to a post from a year and a half ago, about how wrong it was.

Yeah. A post like that is really only useful with the aid of a time machine.

[occo 2]

Does this bloke ever get it wrong?

Dunn, Bate, Jones, McLean, Sylvia, Davey, Petterd, Bartram, Frawley, Buckley, Newton .....

CAC, we love you.

Please do not leave. You are BY FAR the most important man at the club, and you should ask for a pay rise, and get it.

Yep CAC has potentialy built a ripping list.

Now time to take potential to reality.

PS : I was @ Balwyn Tigers V Vermont on Saturday & saw a young bloke playing for Vermont named Nathan Henly tear the game apart. Loaded with class & would be a great high draft pick smokey.

He's a strongly built goal kicking wingman.

I know there is a huge gap between AFL & EFL but this kid just stood out like a beacon.

Brett Ratten was in the crowd & rumour was he was checking him out for The Blues to draft.

CAC take note & jump The Blues this kid just looks the right fit for AFL...

Well times have changed since the first few posts here. CAC was a dud in my opinion. Dunn could possibly not make it, seems less than likely at this stage, frawley has question marks, Newton wont, and buckley im not so sure about. Add Molan, Rodgers and others it seems the drafting he did was nothing short or disastrous.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Disastrous?... Jesus you come up with some rot occo.

Give it a rest... You're not going to know CAC's worth until years after the current 21 yr olds mature and take the place they're going to take in the AFL.

And the list that everyone is SO excited about coming through now will be made up of half of CAC's picks.

Funny how a guy can be respected by the majority of a club's supporters, then the minute he leaves, suddenly all his detractors decide they're geniuses.

If Sylvia, Mclean, Rivers, Petterd, Grimes, Maric, Morton, Bate and others come on to be good footballers, we'll just calmly ignore that, won't we occo? I notice you don't mention them anywhere in your post.

But then if you did, it wouldn't be whinging, so why post eh?

[Rflowerwing 0]

Well times have changed since the first few posts here. CAC was a dud in my opinion. Dunn could possibly not make it, seems less than likely at this stage, frawley has question marks, Newton wont, and buckley im not so sure about. Add Molan, Rodgers and others it seems the drafting he did was nothing short or disastrous.

You could look at any recruiting manager over an 11 year period, identify 2 or 3 that didn't work and label him a dud.

But if we are being selective let's look at the 1997 Rookie Draft. This was the first rookie draft - some clubs eg St Kilda and Brisbane thought it such a waste of time they did not participate. CAC came away with Bassett (210), Ward(136), Bishop(150), Robertson(215 n.o.) and J MCDonald(217 n.o.).

That's 2 All-Australians and 928 games.

Dud? Yeah, right!!

[youami 54]

You could look at any recruiting manager over an 11 year period, identify 2 or 3 that didn't work and label him a dud.

But if we are being selective let's look at the 1997 Rookie Draft. This was the first rookie draft - some clubs eg St Kilda and Brisbane thought it such a waste of time they did not participate. CAC came away with Bassett (210), Ward(136), Bishop(150), Robertson(215 n.o.) and J MCDonald(217 n.o.).

That's 2 All-Australians and 928 games.

Dud? Yeah, right!!

Look at his recruits for Richmond this year. I know he wasnt the official recruiter, but he was in that role for most of the 2008 until they ditched Greg Miller.

Secured Adam Thomson in trade period. Couldnt get a game at Port but will no doubt star at Richmond (tongue in cheek).

Vickery - needed a ruckman and from all the press he was 2nd best in this years draft. Safe but probably worthy selection.

Post - His only real selection of the draft.

Hislop - very much a Gary Moorcroft type selection. Very easy to sell previous players to members rather than Neville Jetta's for example.

Pass, which eventually became.

Cousins - Again CAC went for the popular selection.

Even rookies were mature agers, Nahas, and David Gourdis (recycled player in sense, more so than mature-ager).

How did Jarad Oakley-Nicholls and Kayne Pettifer survive? not sure of their fringe players but perhaps one of those could have gone too. A lack of imagination and not enough turnover was his main problem at Melbourne and looks to be the same at Richmond.

Very similar to the Melbourne of old at Richmond 2008, not enough list turnover and a focus on recycled players.

No doubt Tim Lane will have something to say. NB: I'm not trying to be divisive by questioning the decisions made by a previous recruitment manager.

[Tolstoys Nudge 1,521]

Look at his recruits for Richmond this year. I know he wasnt the official recruiter, but he was in that role for most of the 2008 until they ditched Greg Miller.

Secured Adam Thomson in trade period. Couldnt get a game at Port but will no doubt star at Richmond (tongue in cheek).

Vickery - needed a ruckman and from all the press he was 2nd best in this years draft. Safe but probably worthy selection.

Post - His only real selection of the draft.

Hislop - very much a Gary Moorcroft type selection. Very easy to sell previous players to members rather than Neville Jetta's for example.

Pass, which eventually became.

Cousins - Again CAC went for the popular selection.

Even rookies were mature agers, Nahas, and David Gourdis (recycled player in sense, more so than mature-ager).

How did Jarad Oakley-Nicholls and Kayne Pettifer survive? not sure of their fringe players but perhaps one of those could have gone too. A lack of imagination and not enough turnover was his main problem at Melbourne and looks to be the same at Richmond.

Very similar to the Melbourne of old at Richmond 2008, not enough list turnover and a focus on recycled players.

No doubt Tim Lane will have something to say. NB: I'm not trying to be divisive by questioning the decisions made by a previous recruitment manager.

Very well said mate..

He lacked imagination, and picked FAR too many mid-sized players..

Bell, Frawley, Newton not exactly greast examples of success YM..

CAC is the has the SOLE responsibilty of the state of our list, which, until now, has been terrible!

Its that simple, hew is the man to credit for the last few yaers of an under sized, slow depth-lacking list..

Bailey is beginning to put it right now.. as we are the only side to have a TRUE YOUTH POLICY!

Well done Bailes!

As for CAC, thankyou for leaving, I was so so so happy with the news!

Tigers fans, enjoy!

[Eastie Boyz 0]

You're having a crack at his 2008 selections before any of them have played a game in Richmond colours

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

You keep telling yourself that. CAC was running the show for ten years, and in that ten he had a list that made finals more than all but a couple of teams.

He was a decent recruiter, without being anything special... And as for blaming the list on him, I'd say ND and his "direction" were FAR more to blame than CAC.

"Youth Policy." Please. You only go with a youth policy when you bottom out, and the dees didn't bottom out for ten years.

Fair dinkum... scapegoating the guy just cos he's not at the club anymore. Turn it up. The list was apparently good enough for us to threaten in ND's last year. Everyone thought this, and even our biggest detractors were pretty positive. ND gets the arse, a new coach comes in and the list is now made up of ND-style footballers. Of COURSE DB is going to tear the list to pieces, and rightly so.... But don't blame CAC for recruiting players that suited Neale.

Anyway, taking pot-shots at players he's ONLY JUST recruited at Richmond is a bit rich, as well as criticising the Cousins decision, which would have had nothing at all to do with him anyway.

[bjgc 0]

You could look at any recruiting manager over an 11 year period, identify 2 or 3 that didn't work and label him a dud.

But if we are being selective let's look at the 1997 Rookie Draft. This was the first rookie draft - some clubs eg St Kilda and Brisbane thought it such a waste of time they did not participate. CAC came away with Bassett (210), Ward(136), Bishop(150), Robertson(215 n.o.) and J MCDonald(217 n.o.).

That's 2 All-Australians and 928 games.

Dud? Yeah, right!!

Didn't CAC say the first player he recruited was Johnstone? I'm not 100% sure but if that is the case then he would not have recruited them and even if he did that would leave him with only 2 good draft periods in '97 and '99 the rest were either ordinary or awful. '00 - '03 drafts have ruined the club. We have no good players between the ages of 23 and 27 which would be most teams core group of players. CAC and Daniher are responsible for the position we are in the thing is Daniher has been sacked never to coach an AFL team again while CAC has been promoted. What a life it must be for a recruiter where you can get most of your decisions wrong and still be promoted.

[Jarka 767]

You keep telling yourself that. CAC was running the show for ten years, and in that ten he had a list that made finals more than all but a couple of teams.

He was a decent recruiter, without being anything special... And as for blaming the list on him, I'd say ND and his "direction" were FAR more to blame than CAC.

"Youth Policy." Please. You only go with a youth policy when you bottom out, and the dees didn't bottom out for ten years.

Fair dinkum... scapegoating the guy just cos he's not at the club anymore. Turn it up. The list was apparently good enough for us to threaten in ND's last year. Everyone thought this, and even our biggest detractors were pretty positive. ND gets the arse, a new coach comes in and the list is now made up of ND-style footballers. Of COURSE DB is going to tear the list to pieces, and rightly so.... But don't blame CAC for recruiting players that suited Neale.

Anyway, taking pot-shots at players he's ONLY JUST recruited at Richmond is a bit rich, as well as criticising the Cousins decision, which would have had nothing at all to do with him anyway.

To completely dismiss CAC's contribution to the state of the list when he left is as bad as solely blaming him. CAC played a big part in shaping the list to what we saw last season with the biggest holes being poor leadership, complete lack of key forwards, an inexperienced backline and a general lack of depth across the ground.

Our finals appearances are really that great. In this competition half of the teams get to play them which means some very average teams get in. If you look at our performance once we got into the finals you'll see that we only really had one good series, in 2000, which was basically the result of a team untouched by CAC.

He was an ok recruiter who failed to land any big names.

[Guest melbman]

If you look at our performance once we got into the finals you'll see that we only really had one good series, in 2000, which was basically the result of a team untouched by CAC.

I think that is an interesting observation

I'm not anti CAC but I am very pro Bailey's recruitment criteria of excellent hand and foot skills coupled with pace, leadership has been mentioned in the past too. I think it gives you a great opportunity for quality players on your list

I can't say I know or knew what the previous criteria for recruitment was

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

He was an ok recruiter who failed to land any big names.

I can meet you there...

Interesting to note though that Scotty Thompson was one of CAC's. Some would say he's a star. Also, there were some interesting side notes... particularly that CAC never got his hands on a #1 pick after Trapper who was a good player, and was as good as any of the top 3 of his year. In fact, due to MFC's success, or mediocre success, we really only had the McLean (pretty good pick) and Sylvia picks... plus Morton who could be a ripper. Don't forget that Sylvia and Rivers' careers were cut short of stardom (possibly a long way short) by injury.

Having said all that, it doesn't dismiss the fact we have no stars... And for that, yes, CAC has to accept some of the responsibility. Perhaps the lion's share... but certainly not ALL of it.

As another side note, I can't wait to see how BP goes with all this. He came into the job with little fanfare (rather like CAC actually), and so far has had a pick #1 that must have had him tearing his hair out. I can't wait to see how it pans out with Watts, but I'm also going to enjoy the comparison between he and CAC with the late picks. Jurrah (an out-and-out smoky) Bail and the two boys from up north in Bennell and Jetta will be the really interesting ones.