We now know we're going to have a new coach in 2008, one who will not have the loyalty Daniher had to the older players and who will be able to make unbiased decisions on their playing futures.

So...which on the players around 30 years old will be kept on, and which will be forced to retire?

I assume up to 3 players of this group will be forced to retire at years end but it would be silly to suggest 8 should be delisted, because this is completely unrealistic. 3 to 4 at most will be gone.

1) Nathan Bown (>30)- a faithful foot soldier. i see him as the number 1 candidate on the forced to retire. he has been solid depth and given great service, but it is time that we start to blood our young half back flankers. Bell, Pettard, Buckley and C.Johnson should be given preference. he is no longer needed as depth.

2) Byron Pickett (>30)- extremely talented and intimidating player. However daniher gave him a lifeline and he threw in back in his face. he too overweight, undisciplined, troubled and no longer has the competative edge. Should definitely be forced retired at years end. i hope he gets 1 more match so that he can finish on 200 games.

3) Clint Bizzel (>30)- still a good player. reads the play better than most and a strong mark. However he is past it and should now be replaced by younger versions of himself. should be forced to retire at years end. Frawley, Rivers, Wheatley, Pettard and Garland should all be given preference. his time is up after giving great service to the MFC

4) Ben Holland (>30)- still a useful depth player who has found his niche playing against the guerilla FFs. he must be kept on the list next season as depth for one final year. we do not have anyone capable of replacing him and taking the monster forwards (gherig, rocca, Richo,J.Brown, Ottens, B.Hall and Q.Lynch). he should only play 7-8 games next year for specific roles. i see Miller as the only player on the list who could be groomed to take over this role. i strongly think miller should be developed to play this position.

5) Daniel Ward (30)- still a fast, hard-nut half back flanker. must be kept as depth in case of injuries. he is still decent player and his pace is a big asset when he attacks the opposition and runs the lines. should not play many matches next year (hopefully fewer injuries) but is still afl standard despite his poor kicking skills. im a fan of his uncompromising attack at the football and his pace. Re: queens birthday match against Leon Davis was terrific.

6) Adem Yze (31)- who knows if he still has it due to injury plagued season. however his first half of the season was actually quite good. he is amazingly talented and is still in our best 22 when fully fit. should be put on a 1 year contract and see how he goes. fit and firing he adds alot to our team.

7) Jeff White (>30)- still in the first 5 players picked in the team every week. has had an outstanding season imo. still getting the ball 20 times a game and using the ball flawlessly. he rucking has also been ok. we must draft 2 ruckman in the draft (1 with a high draft pick and 1 with a speculative rookie selection) so that we are covered post retirement. PJ and neaves are decent but a guy like Kruiser could cover his loss hopefully in 2-3 seasons time.

8) David Neitz (>30)- a wonderful captain. should be kept as captain next season (bc mclean is not quite ready) and then hand the captaincy to mclean at the end of season 2008. mclean will then be 22-23 and much more mature and ready. i think he needs one more season before taking over. Neitz should then play as many seasons as he can under mcleans cpataincy playing our of the goal sqaure re: Alistair Lynch. could play 2-3 more seasons. his replacement must be foud soon. i see newton as a definite keeper but must look for fullforwards in the draft. again Kruiser could be the answer via draft.

9) James McDonald (>30)- what a player. i love him. plays his heart out for MFC every week. should play as long as he wants.

While it does seem we have a whole lot of players above 30, people must consider that only 3 of these players are in our best 18 and mcdonald could be replaced without too much difficulty being a midfielder. The rest are depth at best. 3-4 will be gone at years end and the other 2-3 will be depth but probably gone at the end of season 2008.

Who do people think should be kept or retired at years end?

Traded

Bruce

TJ

Retire

Yze

Pickett

Brown

Neitz, White, McDonland and one of Yze/Holland/Bizzell/Ward

Pickett and Brown will retire.

Ward would only stay on the list because he has pace, but he is a VERY ordinary footballer otherwise.

Holland, if he can keep playing his role, might be worth keeping for insurance.

Yze will only stay because he is contracted. His time is very quickly coming to an end.

And I'd rather persist with Warnock than Bizzell.

We have to cut some of these players and move forward.

For what it's worth, I'm preparing myself for some big list movements at the end of the year. Wouldn't surprise me if one of Bruce/ TJ/Green are traded, in fact, I'm almost certain a new coach would trade at the very least one.

Would like to see the following players get a game for the next 9 weeks to prove they are worth persisting with: CJ, Warnock, Jamar, Miller

I'm definitely up for trading green or bruce (not TJ he is such a great midfielder. he has amazing skills and is too important to trade).

bruce and green both still have very high market value. in 2 years time they wont have as much bc they are 27 years old now.

if we could get a top 10 pick plus a 3rd rounder or a player like ryan murphey from freo for either would be fantastic. i think both players would be great for teams that are going for the premiership next year. We are not.

I'm definitely up for trading green or bruce (not TJ he is such a great midfielder. he has amazing skills and is too important to trade).

bruce and green both still have very high market value. in 2 years time they wont have as much bc they are 27 years old now.

if we could get a top 10 pick plus a 3rd rounder or a player like ryan murphey from freo for either would be fantastic. i think both players would be great for teams that are going for the premiership next year. We are not.

Like i said, everyone's up for trade for the right price.

Green won't get much in the market so i'll rather keep him then have a 2-3 round pick.

Bruce and TJ have massive value and will fetch first rounders. Anywhere btw 5 (if we're lucky) and 16 ([censored] off).

Sell at top dollar so one of them should go.

Jamar and Miller aren't worth much but if we play them now, we could play a bit of rope a dope.

Brown, Ferguson, Nevillle are certs to go.

Jamar will have decent market value.

We got plenty for Jolly, and Jamar could be just as good a ruckman (both useless around the ground).

There are plenty of teams desperate for ruckman, and Melbourne have a good reputation for developing them. If we got a late second round pick for Jamar, I'd be all over it like a rash.

Miller would have no value, and so I'd rather keep him and try and develop him as a defender. Worse case scenario, he's good depth, especially given Holland and Bizzell are done.

Ferguson has no value, same goes for guys like Ward and Godfrey.

I'd be keen to trade one of Bruce or Green, but I too think that Green's market value is probably not as high as his value in the side. He should and hopefully will return to his rightful position up forward.

Bruce has huge value, and at 27 (soon 28) we could strike a great deal and get someone equally as good who'll be there for 10+ years. I have my doubts on whether Bruce will still be a damaging player when we're ready to win a premiership.

TJ is hot and cold but he's the sort of talent we sorely need.

I'd keep him unless a huge offer was put on the table, or as part of a Judd deal obviously.

And who knows, a new coach might be able to get more out of TJ than Daniher could.

The players I would be very reluctant to trade would be anyone 23 or under who has shown they have the talent to make it at AFL level. Players like Rivers, McLean, Bate, Jones, Sylvia etc etc...

Holland is good up forward in a pocket, creates a mis match when two big strong blokes (Neitz) are up forward, i don't know why they haven't done it this year. It takes out a key defensive player.

Yze is a freak in front of goals he would be great in the other pocket position. Still a couple years left

Pickett must go

Trade Johnno to inconsistent as a midfielder. If kept should have more of a role on a wing

Miller needs to be played in one position to establish himself at CHF

Brown must go

Bizzel should play another year, just getting back into it

I'd keep Neitz and McDonald, look to trade White and delist (or trade if any offers) the rest. Also get some offers for Bruce, but only trade him if it's a great deal.

Can't trade Bruce it would be like Woewodin all over again. Stupidest thing the club has ever done.

Can't trade Bruce it would be like Woewodin all over again. Stupidest thing the club has ever done.

No it wasn't. Woewodin was my favourite player at the time but even I realised it ended up being a great move. Bruce is tradeable because he currently has value, in fact I think he is one of our few players who are overrated outside of the club.

Can't trade Bruce it would be like Woewodin all over again. Stupidest thing the club has ever done.

i think trading woewoden was very clever in retrospect. we got a 1st rounder (daniel bell) for him. woewoden is in the wafl and bell looks the goods.

i think the main point to consider when trading a quality player is whether the draft pick u get will be worth what ur losing. its risky bc theres no guerentee a draft pick will even play a single game, wihle bruce u know ul get quality every game. its a risk, nething other than a top10 pick is not worth the risk

i think trading woewoden was very clever in retrospect. we got a 1st rounder (daniel bell) for him. woewoden is in the wafl and bell looks the goods.

i think the main point to consider when trading a quality player is whether the draft pick u get will be worth what ur losing. its risky bc theres no guerentee a draft pick will even play a single game, wihle bruce u know ul get quality every game. its a risk, nething other than a top10 pick is not worth the risk

Everything in this sport is a risk.

Getting rid of Daniher is a risk.

Playing players who are not 100% is a risk.

Putting your head over the ball is a risk.

But, sometimes success requires the courage to let go of certainties.

In the words of Kennedy: "Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly"

i think trading woewoden was very clever in retrospect. we got a 1st rounder (daniel bell) for him. woewoden is in the wafl and bell looks the goods.

i think the main point to consider when trading a quality player is whether the draft pick u get will be worth what ur losing. its risky bc theres no guerentee a draft pick will even play a single game, wihle bruce u know ul get quality every game. its a risk, nething other than a top10 pick is not worth the risk

he might be in the WAFL now...

how many angry supporters did we lose?

we will never know how much his loss would have impacted the club its just one of those things....

his career sadly ended due to a terrible last quarter with collingwood in one game.... the sad thing he was a great player at our club.... and we will never know wat he could have become at MFC. he was better than alot of u think .. even his last 2 year at collingwood were far from bad

No it wasn't. Woewodin was my favourite player at the time but even I realised it ended up being a great move. Bruce is tradeable because he currently has value, in fact I think he is one of our few players who are overrated outside of the club.

A great move? Melbourne was still paying for him when he was at Collingwood. Woewodin would have been more value staying. Now hes going to waste. He is a put your head down get the football type player which Melbourne are missing. I'd rather have Woewodin over Travis Johnstone any day. I know he would give 110% and wouldn't side step. Daniel Bell is no way near the calibre of Woey. I can't see Daniel Bell being a Brownlow Medallist.

You don't trade players that perform. You trade players that are underperforming or want to leave or are near the end of there career. Thinking of trading Bruce is stupidity

Like i said, everyone's up for trade for the right price.

Green won't get much in the market so i'll rather keep him then have a 2-3 round pick.

Bruce and TJ have massive value and will fetch first rounders. Anywhere btw 5 (if we're lucky) and 16 ([censored] off).

Sell at top dollar so one of them should go.

Jamar and Miller aren't worth much but if we play them now, we could play a bit of rope a dope.

Brown, Ferguson, Nevillle are certs to go.

No we wouldnt. We would get at best a 3rd round for each of them. First rounders are rairly given up...especially for players like TJ and Bruce.

A great move? Melbourne was still paying for him when he was at Collingwood. Woewodin would have been more value staying. Now hes going to waste. He is a put your head down get the football type player which Melbourne are missing. I'd rather have Woewodin over Travis Johnstone any day. I know he would give 110% and wouldn't side step. Daniel Bell is no way near the calibre of Woey. I can't see Daniel Bell being a Brownlow Medallist.

You don't trade players that perform. You trade players that are underperforming or want to leave or are near the end of there career. Thinking of trading Bruce is stupidity

well said

No we wouldnt. We would get at best a 3rd round for each of them. First rounders are rairly given up...especially for players like TJ and Bruce.

considering bruce is our best player .... id think we would get better than a third rounder

I assume up to 3 players of this group will be forced to retire at years end but it would be silly to suggest 8 should be delisted, because this is completely unrealistic. 3 to 4 at most will be gone.

2 rookie promotions (Neaves and Hughes), 5 draft selections (rouunds 1-5 plus priority), 1 pre-season selection.

If the coach coming in does the right thing and delists the dead wood, he could very well get rid of up to 12 players. But then he wouldn't want to delist all of them.

8 is more likely a number than 3.

A great move?Daniel Bell is no way near the calibre of Woey. I can't see Daniel Bell being a Brownlow Medallist.

Oh jesus...

Daniel Bell is a defender. He's not going to be a brownlow medallist, but then neither should Woey have been. And the point is moot anyway.

We traded the years from when we traded Woey onwards for Bell. Woey played maybe 1 ok season for the pies then was delisted. Bell is paying dividends now, and will continue to for another 10 years. The Woey trade was CLEARLY a good move.

And Mick, you have to trade something to get something. ANYONE besides biased Woey supporters knows we got the good end of that deal. In fact, go ask a few pies supporters what they'd prefer. Daniel Bell or Woey.

people who dont reckon bruce will fetch a first rounder have no idea about the trade period. consistently players of that calibre are top 10 picks atleast.

\P.Johnson (underperforming 10 gamer from WCE) was pick 20...u think we cant get higher than wat PJ went for? some people just dont think before they post

A great move? Melbourne was still paying for him when he was at Collingwood. Woewodin would have been more value staying. Now hes going to waste. He is a put your head down get the football type player which Melbourne are missing. I'd rather have Woewodin over Travis Johnstone any day. I know he would give 110% and wouldn't side step. Daniel Bell is no way near the calibre of Woey. I can't see Daniel Bell being a Brownlow Medallist.

You don't trade players that perform. You trade players that are underperforming or want to leave or are near the end of there career. Thinking of trading Bruce is stupidity

Woewodin didn't perform at Collingwood and if he was still a good player then he'd still be playing.

Oh, and we were paying 50k btw. He turned into a soft front runner who'd lift his head when he heard footsteps, and the fact that you think that he is currently better than TJ makes it obvious that you don't knwo what you're talking about.

Woewodin didn't perform at Collingwood and if he was still a good player then he'd still be playing.

Oh, and we were paying 50k btw. He turned into a soft front runner who'd lift his head when he heard footsteps, and the fact that you think that he is currently better than TJ makes it obvious that you don't knwo what you're talking about.

He averaged around twenty possessions a game while at collingwood, not too bad considering you think he didn't perform.

Woewodin was always on the bottom of the packs getting the hardball, Travis Johnstone is a cream puff compared too shane.

When Travis's career is over he will be remembered as the Number One draft pick that showed glimpses of being a champion footballer. He has good skills i'll give him that. You want midfielders that can get a hardball and consistently get twenty too thirty poss a game, Consistency something Travis is lacking. You cant have key midfielders up and down everyweek. When you play against players like Judd,Kerr, West ,Hodge etc you gotta be firing on all cylinders cause thats where the games are won in the midfield.

He averaged around twenty possessions a game while at collingwood, not too bad considering you think he didn't perform.

Woewodin was always on the bottom of the packs getting the hardball, Travis Johnstone is a cream puff compared too shane.

When Travis's career is over he will be remembered as the Number One draft pick that showed glimpses of being a champion footballer. He has good skills i'll give him that. You want midfielders that can get a hardball and consistently get twenty too thirty poss a game, Consistency something Travis is lacking. You cant have key midfielders up and down everyweek. When you play against players like Judd,Kerr, West ,Hodge etc you gotta be firing on all cylinders cause thats where the games are won in the midfield.

Hi, just wanted to remind you that Woey is 30 and plays in the WAFL.

Can we get over Woey and move on...

Christ, are we still going to be talking about his departure in 4 years time?!

It's all this lack of success that's had us holding onto the careers of extremely average footballers even long after they're gone.

We made the right decision, if you can't see that, you're clearly in favour of an individual and not our football club.

We made the right decision, if you can't see that, you're clearly in favour of an individual and not our football club.

I am so sick of hearing that - people have players they lament losing and always will. Especially for when many of us had Woey as our favourite player, its something a lot of people will never get over. Not all of us view footy as a business transaction and I think better for us

A great move? Melbourne was still paying for him when he was at Collingwood. Woewodin would have been more value staying. Now hes going to waste. He is a put your head down get the football type player which Melbourne are missing. I'd rather have Woewodin over Travis Johnstone any day. I know he would give 110% and wouldn't side step. Daniel Bell is no way near the calibre of Woey. I can't see Daniel Bell being a Brownlow Medallist.

You don't trade players that perform. You trade players that are underperforming or want to leave or are near the end of there career. Thinking of trading Bruce is stupidity

If Woewodin had stayed on his inflated "Brownlow wage" We would have had to delist many players off our list to stay under the salary cap. There was no choice, after 2000 Many contracts were upped. Sadly woey was just too expensive, Lets not forgetr both his ordinary GF performances. In the heat iof battle when it counted Woey was just too slight in weight, got pushed aside. It was a business decision as was ND leaving. Had to be done

The Club is always bigger