So Jaded, are you saying that you wouldn't trade McLean for Judd? Even though I love McLean's work, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

No I wouldn't, because then we'd end up losing one gun midfielder for another, and we'll need to cover McLean's loss by getting another great on-baller.

The idea is to add Judd to the midfield we already have.

Green and Bruce are not really midfielders, they play there, but they also play in a lot of other positions. Bruce is turning 28 next year, so getting better he won't be. Green is one of my favourite players, but he is neither here nor there. A good player with excellent disposal, but one we can cover.

Losing McLean would hurt us so much more than losing Green and Bruce, and the last 7 weeks are a testament of that.

Besides, I guarantee you that there is not a club on this planet who could offer us an attractive enough deal to trade McLean. He is untouchable, pure and simple.

Ok. You've missed my point here.

Well I'm trying to work out what is your point.

The guy runs all day, gets 36 possessions for the match, 22 in the second half which shows what level of endurance he has, and you want to discount his game because his possessions weren't "effective" (how exactly did you measure that by the way?). Apart from one kick out on the full (3% error rate given 36 possessions), I'm wondering what else he did wrong.

There were a lot more "ineffective players" yesterday than Bruce.

Well I'm trying to work out what is your point.

The guy runs all day, gets 36 possessions for the match, 22 in the second half which shows what level of endurance he has, and you want to discount his game because his possessions weren't "effective" (how exactly did you measure that by the way?). Apart from one kick out on the full (3% error rate given 36 possessions), I'm wondering what else he did wrong.

There were a lot more "ineffective players" yesterday than Bruce.

The sad thing is the Bruce bashers are here to stay. They clearly have no idea as most footbball commentators either TV or newspaper have Bruce best on ground week in week out. The sad thing is that I do not know of any other team supporters that go around bad mouthing their best players and it is a disgrace

My guess is that its going to cost us McLean plus Bruce and draft picks.

I think this is rubbish. It all depends on whether he makes up his mind to leave. Once he does, the Eagles trading power would be severely diminished.

If our first round draft pick is 1-3, this is close to the next Judd (or Pavlich) alone. I'd never trade McLean, he's got captain and star written all over him. Bruce is a high possession getter with one of the league's top motors. Trade any other pick in addition and we diminish our ability to de-list dead wood.

Trading Bruce, McLean and a top 3 pick is like trading two Judds for Judd. Stupid if you ask me, and grossly over-exaggerated.

It will be interesting to see what Miller will produce for the remainder of ther year.

We lacked a Target at CHF yesterday. He takes plenty of ball on the wing, when you need him on Fifty.

For mine he trys hard but is workman like and doesnt scare the opposition.

It will be interesting to see what Miller will produce for the remainder of ther year.

We lacked a Target at CHF yesterday. He takes plenty of ball on the wing, when you need him on Fifty.

For mine he trys hard but is workman like and doesnt scare the opposition.

Miller's confidence is in line with the rest of the team usually. When the team is firing he is but when they arent he generally isnt. Then again he was a standout performer in our dismal final against Freo last year. He has needs to believe in himself and I get the feeling from him he takes the criticism about him to heart as he has never gotten the respect he deserves

You're putting Bruce in the same class as Judd, ha!

As for the comparison between McLean and Judd. Let me remind you that Judd's already a brownlow medallist, premiership captain, durable, a proven superstar, the best player in the competition, supported the Dee's as a boy.....what more could you ask for. McLean is not untradeable in my mind when you consider Judd's track record.

Judd would not solve our problems for what we would have to give up to get him end of story. When the going was good last year no-one would have been on about this. The reality is Judd isnt going anywhere its wishful thinking but look at Aker hes a brownlow medallist that has done f-all all the Bulldogs, he hasnt solved anything for them, Judd would be the same with us

The reality is that most of the players that have been mentioned have very little or which is mot likely, no trade value at all. We are not gong to be able to trade our way into a top team and I hope the club stops it giving away of our second round pick to try and achieve that. Off the top of my head we've gained Holland and Pickett and in my opinion what we've lost has been much more valuable.

I believe that we will only build a great team through the draft and I'd be prepared to sacrifice one of our more senior better players to get access to a talented kid - only if we received a high enough pick though. I definitely would not trade away our first two picks this year, ir we're smart then we'll end up being in a position to pick up someone in the pre-season draft anyway.

The players I'd look at delisting are:

Holland

Bizzell

Ward

Brown

Wheatley

Neville

Ferguson

Yze

Pickett

Miller

Jamar

Obviously not all of them, but this is the list that I'd imagine would be under most threat.

Judd would not solve our problems for what we would have to give up to get him end of story. When the going was good last year no-one would have been on about this. The reality is Judd isnt going anywhere its wishful thinking but look at Aker hes a brownlow medallist that has done f-all all the Bulldogs, he hasnt solved anything for them, Judd would be the same with us

Hardly the same comparing Aker in the twilight of his career to Judd who is yet to peak. Judd would solve a lot of issues with our team, not the least of which would be inspirational leadership in the centre of the park.

You're putting Bruce in the same class as Judd, ha!

As for the comparison between McLean and Judd. Let me remind you that Judd's already a brownlow medallist, premiership captain, durable, a proven superstar, the best player in the competition, supported the Dee's as a boy.....what more could you ask for. McLean is not untradeable in my mind when you consider Judd's track record.

When did I put Judd and Bruce in the same class?

I was simply saying that Bruce could fill a need for West Coast, and as others have said, if Judd says he wants out, West Coast can't be too fussy. They can't lose him via the PSD.

And there was also no comparison between Judd and McLean, so don't twist my words.

Go read what I said about losing one gun midfield for another, which defeats the purpose all together. We need another ball winner who can use the footy, like McLean and Jones. Get rid of either of those for Judd, and you are still left with the same problem, we are one ball winner down.

Judd is Judd, he is the best, and he would finish off what is becoming a good on-ball division, as well as bring in sponsorship money, supporters and media attention. He could transform our football club off the field, as well as on it. But that doesn't mean we should trade our best 21 year old for him. Those two need to play together, not apart.

Well I am not prepared to have another Farmer or Woewodin situation again. They both had bad bad effects on the team I feel. We have a talented list once they are all back to their best in terms of injury we will be fine

Well I am not prepared to have another Farmer or Woewodin situation again. They both had bad bad effects on the team I feel. We have a talented list once they are all back to their best in terms of injury we will be fine

Boo hoo.

This is football, not playtime at kinder.

I doubt our players would be too devestated to get Chris Judd. I'm sure they are all smart enough to realise that this is the reality of football, players get traded and delisted. Should we not delist Bizzell or Ward or Brown because it would have a bad affect on our players?

If they are really that precious, we are going nowhere fast and we might as well not bother with Judd.

Besides, we were 100% correct in our decision to let both Woewodin and Farmer go. One is playing WAFL, the other has gone off the rails.

I think this is rubbish. It all depends on whether he makes up his mind to leave. Once he does, the Eagles trading power would be severely diminished.

If our first round draft pick is 1-3, this is close to the next Judd (or Pavlich) alone. I'd never trade McLean, he's got captain and star written all over him. Bruce is a high possession getter with one of the league's top motors. Trade any other pick in addition and we diminish our ability to de-list dead wood.

Trading Bruce, McLean and a top 3 pick is like trading two Judds for Judd. Stupid if you ask me, and grossly over-exaggerated.

Jaded, I was actually referring to Maurie Lithen's post, not any of yours. For the record, I think your observations about our club are right on the money for the most part and I always look forward to reading your posts.

When did I put Judd and Bruce in the same class?

I was simply saying that Bruce could fill a need for West Coast, and as others have said, if Judd says he wants out, West Coast can't be too fussy. They can't lose him via the PSD.

And there was also no comparison between Judd and McLean, so don't twist my words.

Go read what I said about losing one gun midfield for another, which defeats the purpose all together. We need another ball winner who can use the footy, like McLean and Jones. Get rid of either of those for Judd, and you are still left with the same problem, we are one ball winner down.

Judd is Judd, he is the best, and he would finish off what is becoming a good on-ball division, as well as bring in sponsorship money, supporters and media attention. He could transform our football club off the field, as well as on it. But that doesn't mean we should trade our best 21 year old for him. Those two need to play together, not apart.

Well I am not prepared to have another Farmer or Woewodin situation again. They both had bad bad effects on the team I feel. We have a talented list once they are all back to their best in terms of injury we will be fine

The Farmer one definitely resulted in our favour and same for the Woewodin one, however it just took about a seson and a half for it to become apparent that we made the right decision. We have a talented list but we have some major issues in certain areas.

Jaded, I was actually referring to Maurie Lithen's post, not any of yours. For the record, I think your observations about our club are right on the money for the most part and I always look forward to reading your posts.

No worries.

If things are gonna change there has to be a drastic move. I agree with most.

The blokes I'd say good bye to without a second thought are: Bizzell, Brown, Ferguson, Godfrey, Holland, Pickett, Ward, Wheatley.

I'd seriously consider trading one or two of Bruce, Green, Miller, White and Yze.

i agree completely.

though reality is we won't delist 8 players. therefore godfrey should be kept next season as backup tagger to bartram. holland should be kept as back up k.p. defender behind rivers, carrol, warnock and frawley or back up forward in case of injuries. pickett and brown should be kept as solid depth players.

i'd add jamar to ur list.

therefore, delist bizzel, ward, wheatley, ferguson and jamar.

trade miller if we can get something good for him. trade green only if we can get something extemely great for him in return. don't trade him just for the sake of it.

then pick up Kruiser (199cm ruckman/ key forward...set to be the next champion of the game) and use our other 4 top 30 picks wisely.

You're putting Bruce in the same class as Judd, ha!

No I didn't.

I simply said Bruce + McLean + Pick 1-3 were worth more than Judd.

In a few years time, either of McLean or Pick 1-3 could be worth more than Judd alone.

The Farmer one definitely resulted in our favour and same for the Woewodin one, however it just took about a seson and a half for it to become apparent that we made the right decision. We have a talented list but we have some major issues in certain areas.

I agree with you on Woey.

I thought Farmer walked out and we did not get a trade compensation for him. Is this right? BTW, the only thing I miss is his ability to ignite a team. Its a pity about the rest of the on and off field stuff.

Boo hoo.

This is football, not playtime at kinder.

I doubt our players would be too devestated to get Chris Judd. I'm sure they are all smart enough to realise that this is the reality of football, players get traded and delisted. Should we not delist Bizzell or Ward or Brown because it would have a bad affect on our players?

If they are really that precious, we are going nowhere fast and we might as well not bother with Judd.

Besides, we were 100% correct in our decision to let both Woewodin and Farmer go. One is playing WAFL, the other has gone off the rails.

Yeah well you obviously do not know the half of it. I know for a fact that a lot of the players were extremely unhappy about the Woewodin sitatuation which Woewodin shed a lot of light on last year when my brother saw him and had a chat. Yeah they would love Judd I bet but they wouldnt love what they would have to give up to get him. You are underestimating the effect that losing someone like Brown would have as he has always been with the club. Someone such as Bizzell may not be as bad as he has come from elsewhere. And I do not appreciate your sarcasm darling

I think this is rubbish. It all depends on whether he makes up his mind to leave. Once he does, the Eagles trading power would be severely diminished.

If our first round draft pick is 1-3, this is close to the next Judd (or Pavlich) alone. I'd never trade McLean, he's got captain and star written all over him. Bruce is a high possession getter with one of the league's top motors. Trade any other pick in addition and we diminish our ability to de-list dead wood.

Trading Bruce, McLean and a top 3 pick is like trading two Judds for Judd. Stupid if you ask me, and grossly over-exaggerated.

No I didn't.

I simply said Bruce + McLean + Pick 1-3 were worth more than Judd.

In a few years time, either of McLean and Pick 1-3 could be worth more than Judd.

Don't you remember writing the above mentioned quote where you say Trading Bruce and McLean is like trading two Judd's. That sounds to me like your putting Bruce up there on the same level as Judd which to me seems an exageration.

Who knows how the draft picks will turn out, that's a competetly unknown quantity i'd rather bank on a proven winner like Judd then a 17 year old top 3 draft pick with potential. Players like Judd come along once a decade I reckon.

I agree with you on Woey.

I thought Farmer walk out and we did not get a trade compensation for him. Is this right? BTW, the only thing I miss is his ability to ignite a team. Its a pity about the rest of the on and off field stuff.

I agree that at the time the compensation we got didn't seem great, pick 18 or 19 I think. We picked up Green with it and I will argue till I'm blue in the face that we've got more out of Green than they have out of Farmer and that's not taking into consideration the damage Farmer has done to Fremantle with his off field behaviour.

I do not want someone who belts his wife playing for us.

I do not want someone who belts his wife playing for us.

Didn't Sylvia get arrested for just that? Sorry this is going off topic. P.S. we didn't pick up Green with the woey trade the two were already teammates in 2000. I'll leave it up to someone more knowledgeable about our list management history to fill in the details.

Didn't Sylvia get arrested for just that?

He definitely did not get arrested for that.

He definitely did not get arrested for that.

*breathing a sigh of relief