One more year?

[Rogue 585]

My biggest concern with Daniher has been his game day coaching

Indeed.

[deanox 9,902]

yeah fair point about his match day coaching. personally i thought the miller on hall was a negative move that shouldnt have been made. but conversly godfrey on goodes was out of left field and was a winner. i spose the big moves he has tried to make, davey and bruce in the midfield, jamar up forward etc havnt really come off. if jamar had of kicked a bag one week that wouldve been good coaching. he hasnt so we slag him off for not doing anything. green shouldve been at FF in my opinion recently but as has been shown he is one of our better ball winners, especially with half the side out. so by having him at FF he wouldve starved the forward line of supply.

we do play our best footy as fast, free flowing attacking footy, but we also lost a crucial game to freo in that style and we have struggled when teams have played shut down defensive footy turning it into a scrap. run and carry to me is a variation of run and kick long. the difference being that instead of bombing long you utilise the handball untill the free man can get a clear kick, direct it appropriately and hopefully to allow time for the players up field to present. at the moment no one is presenting (except miller) and we are struggling. the bomb it long plan falls down when we get shut down across the half forward line. i reckon if danniher had of had a great CHF to work with we would've won flags by now. but we have had a full forward and a flanker who plays tall.

when we play fast aggressive footy we pay dearly on the rebound, and everyone was critical of ND for this. we couldnt play the tempo footy with the best of the teams so last year he introduced that game plan and style as an alternative. run and carry is fast and aggressive footy we just don't have the cattle at the momentto pull it off.

what gets me is that if we were 3 and 2 or even 2 and 3 we probably wouldnt be having these discussions at all. and i still think that with a full side on the park we wouldve come close to over running the saints and hawthorn and it wouldve been interesting against freo...

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

no facts...!! lol

they are there in front of you ...but YOU choose to ignore them.

What they tell you is that against the power teams in the comp we have for the main failed on an ongoing basis. Nothing changes.. We wont be a real danger to September until it does change.

They my fellow supporter ARE the facts.. they are results..they are what IS.. anything else is conjecture and interpretation. But is you want to colour it pink and orange and call it success ...go ahead

fact..we have won 12 flags

we all know them..1900 1926 1939 1940 1941 1948 1955 1957 1959 1960 1964

since then our only two tilts at the cup have resulted in absolute floggings

wooden spoons 1906 1919 1923 1951 1969 1974 1978 1981 1997 and currently languishing on the bottom !!

we have only ever won less than 47% of all games.. and keep in mind that will be tempered by our halycydon eras.

So in the modern era we arent travelling too well id suggest, and im being very lenient about this year

so what facts would you rather I look at ??

Power teams have changed over the course of 10 years. Essendon, Port Adelaide, Adelaide, WCE and Brisbane have all won flags during ND's reign and all have had down periods and years. There has been no truly consistent "power" sides. And during that time MFC have risen and fallen so relative to who they play and when determines whether the win or loss could have been expected or was a turn up. A % drawn over that period of time alone does not give you any insight in the weakness of MFC against power teams

When I asked you what of any substance it tells you, I receive a whole lot of hyperbole back which further confuses and diminishes your point.

Try actually substanting your opinion with facts that support it. Its not that hard.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

...

I never saw "tempo football" as being more accountable football. I saw it as holding the ball up, to essentially slow the (tempo of the) game down.

I think that teams can still be accountable while playing attacking football. It's all about applying pressure and marking the opposition when they have the ball.

However, one thing that must be conceded with this attacking style is that teams probably will concede more goals than if they try and shut the game right down. Having said that, a team like Melbourne kicks far more goals themselves and thus it is a risk worth taking.

It's not the fact that Melbourne are 0-5 that annoys. It's the way in which they have lost (even with injuries). Particularly against St Kilda when Melbourne only had a couple of out-numbered players in their own forward line.

[Guest dee'viator]

Assuming that Melbourne do fail to make the finals this season and taking injuries into account, do you think that the MFC should offer Neale Daniher one more year as coach?

******************MFC MUST LET HIM GO******************

We need a new Leader at the helm.

...

[Guest dee'viator]

Assuming that Melbourne do fail to make the finals this season and taking injuries into account, do you think that the MFC should offer Neale Daniher one more year as coach?

He aint what Dynasties are made of:-

The rise and fall of Norm Smith at the M.F.C. The rise and fall of Norm Smith at the M.F.C.

By Gary Cockinaras

30/04/07

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gary Cockinaras remenises about M.F.C. legend Norm Smith

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NORMAN WALTER SMITH - " I AM MELBOURNE, TONY, I AM MELBOURNE".

http://demonology.midnight.net.au/Index.iH...p;ArticleID=787

[beelzebub 23,313]

Power teams have changed over the course of 10 years. Essendon, Port Adelaide, Adelaide, WCE and Brisbane have all won flags during ND's reign and all have had down periods and years.

they have won cups...we have won nothing...youtr point ??

Id rather a few up and down years which incorporate a premiership or TWO...and have down times...which is naturally cyclic...than that which we've gone through !!

ND's reign has produced nothing ...but thats probably further hyperbole...please keep ignoring the obvious.

"""There has been no truly consistent "power" sides. And during that time MFC have risen and fallen so relative to who they play and when determines whether the win or loss could have been expected or was a turn up."""

You're pretty good at that stuff as well..I have no franchise !! :-)

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

they have won cups...we have won nothing...youtr point ??

Id rather a few up and down years which incorporate a premiership or TWO...and have down times...which is naturally cyclic...than that which we've gone through !!

ND's reign has produced nothing ...but thats probably further hyperbole...please keep ignoring the obvious.

"""There has been no truly consistent "power" sides. And during that time MFC have risen and fallen so relative to who they play and when determines whether the win or loss could have been expected or was a turn up."""

You're pretty good at that stuff as well..I have no franchise !! :-)

So how does winning cups at points in the 10 year cycle determine them as power teams and therefore your conclusion about Melbourne?

Sorry about the facts just wrecks a bloated opinion every time.

[beelzebub 23,313]

good at bending words arent you...

youre the one on the power team bent.. ive simply said they have won premierships and we havent...and thats what i would prefer. Your grasping at apples and calling them pears, but dont let that assuade your ability to confuse your OWN words with what others are actually saying. Nice tactic.

Some of us here question any legitamcy to Daniher warranting any more years , whether its one...two..or any . we offer up his mediocre record and you offer up other clubs succeses. Possibly only yourself knows what on earth you ar eon about. Most of the rest of us see it as plain case of Danniher having had his time and failed and thats all. As a consequnce we suggest a new face with new methods...maybe some of those like other clubs that actually win things.

So you can keep your non sensical arguments.. most of us can reason through it..and see common sense.

The common point of view I would suggest is a new coach in 2008..and a serious reappraisal of what we fall talent here at Melbourne.

RR you use the words fact a lot..but offer none.

bloat away !!

[Toad33 57]

I know I have said before that if the team does improve on last years finishing position then ND needs to be moved on, however, before the season I don't think any of us thought of the consequences of so many injuries to key players.

Our current situation has helped me look at ND's tenure in a slightly different light. This was also done on SEN last week when I heard KB talking about the Sheedy situation last year.

He explained that Sheed's knew early in the season that it was lost due to injuries, and with one year left on his contract, decided to play every player on the list in varying positions to get an accurate idea of exactly what he had to work with THIS year.

I think this would be a good way for Melbourne to go with ND.

Even though I'm not quite prepared to concede our season is lost yet, if ND does in the coming weeks, then I think he should have the opportunity to do the same thing. But to do so he would need his contract extended for ONE year to take the pressure off and look at players with an eye to building a team for next year.

That is rather than feel he has to field his best team (on paper), which might not necessarily be his best team on the field or for the future. Essentially that means NOT playing 'name' or experienced players that might be carrying an injury or out of form, or 'under done' but playing those fit and in form or in need of some 'testing' or blooding to see where they are at.

Back to our current predicament.

Another aspect of the coach which I don't think has been discussed yet' which would no doubt have a HUGE effect on performances' is the ASSISTANT COACHING STAFF.

I know that a lot of you bemoan the febble set ups and defence from opposition point kick-ins, and even our own for that matter, and cringe at being smashed out of the centre circle and even through the centre of the ground generally as well.

But WHO is really to blame? Is it really all ND's fault?

When I listened to ND's press conference last weekend he complained that "We didn't have any forward structure tonight".

At first I took this as just another coaching 'cliche', but after a bit of thought, (especially since knowing that Miller finally went forward in that game, which should have given us some structure) I thought it was a verbal 'back hander' for our forward coach!

I can understand that injuries to key players robs a team of it's most skilled and consistent players, and therefore lessens the likelihood of winning, but that shouldn't effect the WAY in which the rest of the players go about settin up and playing the game!!!

As a visitor to two pre-season training sessions I saw the entire list (except for Sylvia and Bartram) doing the same drills and that same game simulations. These always included a lot of stops and starts with the coaching staff 'coaching' players to move into certain areas etc.

For the record I can tell you that it wasn't just Neitz and Robbo filling the roles as forwards during these drills, it was ALL those players on our list we know as forwards, even including PJ.

It needs to be asked then, that after a pre-season and two months of competitve games why don't the players know where they should move to and when, either offensively or defensively, and who REALLY is to blame.

Go Dees

At home sick today......which has given me a chance to read the MFC Season Almanac. And I can't believe what I have found. I have TRUELY discovered the reason why we are going so poorly this season, regardless of injuries.

Let me quote page 63 where you will find the photos and desriptions of our assistant coaches.

(Mark Riley) "Melbourne's back line coach since 2003. Riley is now filling the role of forward line coach, proving the versatility and adaptability necessary in the modern game".

(Peter Curran) "Having exchanged his role as forward line coach to take charge of coaching the back line for season 2007, Curran has been part of thee Melbourne coaching structure since 2005".

So herein lies the root of our problem; as I first thought.

Significant changes like these, and the change in game style, have to be seriously questioned. Especially when we were supposed to be having a serious tilt at a flag this year.

WHY CHANGE A WINNING FORMULA?

For all those who would like to see ND go, this is some more ammunition for you as it was probably HE who made the changes and is therefore ultimately responsible.

Go Dees - Love the team, FAST losing faith in the coaching staff. :angry:

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

good at bending words arent you...

.......

In fact that is what you have been doing.

You put a set of statistics here showing ND's win loss record against each side up to a set point in time.

You ascerted that your statistics suggest a "trend" that "suggests there is a failure to learn and/or to change."

I questioned how you could arrive at that and you head off in another direction that the other teams have won a premiership.

In addition you slag off about not playing the kids on other sites when evidence has been put to you to the contrary

Then when challeged say "Are you happy with the current situation?" as some misguided invitation for you to continually launch into a hyperbolic rant often about issues you reflect little knowledge off.

You have been a consistent and perpetual whinger on this site about MFC and its officers You allege your MFC support then makes criticisms about the Club that have little or on foundation.

And before you take the tack "Oh I should say everything is perfect..lol", constructive and factual criticism is valid. Some of the withc burning that you and others have carried on with isnt.

I am clearly not happy about MFC situation. No one is. But I dont stoop so low as to use a public forum to carte blanche berate and abuse public figures.

This year has been disappointing. Equally disapppointing is the woe merchants on this site that for self serving reasons feel a need to proclaim all is lost.. its a disaster. Its pathetic and does little to focus on the some of problems that clubs MFC have.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

.......

So herein lies the root of our problem; as I first thought.

Significant changes like these, and the change in game style, have to be seriously questioned. Especially when we were supposed to be having a serious tilt at a flag this year.

....

How would you be in a position to make a valid judgment like that?

Also, if we are getting smashed out of the middle in the clearances should not Paul Williams be a problem too?

Another case of witch burning.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

...

Do you think that Melbourne will sign Daniher up for another year?

[demoniac 1,330]

Yes we have injuries.

But after 10 years I judt don't think Daniher has what it takes as a coach to land us a premiership - and given thats why we play the game that means he has to go at the end of the year. Its not like he has only been given a few years, its his 10th season.

Tactically he is a follower not an innovator when it comes to gameplans, - and he really struggles during matches -and he can't seem to get us to play tough hard consistent footy - witness the 2 losses to the Blues that cost us a top 4 spot last year.

Obviously we can't get an Eade, or a Roos, or a Worsfold or a Matthews.. its up to the Board to identify the next generation and pick the best.

10 years is simply enough.

[Toad33 57]

How would you be in a position to make a valid judgment like that?

Also, if we are getting smashed out of the middle in the clearances should not Paul Williams be a problem too?

Another case of witch burning.

I didn't know that Bomber and PC were witches!! Do you know something we don't know Rhino?

I far as I see it Williams is just another change (that probably didn't need to be made) that as helped to upset something that didn't NEED to be upset.

I am as frustrated as you are about the state of our team and their performances, but choose to look at the situation as objectively and logically as I can to find the reasons why our team has fallen off the rails. That is opposed to those who would rather spend their time 'nit pick' other peoples posts without offering anything really worth reading, or relevant to the original post, or intelligent for that matter.

For the record. (this bits for you Clint Bizkit)

I support ND and think he should be given a ONE year extension. He needs to succeed in the 'Neitz Era' which I think will end at the end of next season. If he can do that then he MIGHT be charged with another re-building period. If he doesn't then it will be obvious that the BIG BROOM needs to come out; starting from the top down.

GO DEES

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

How would you be in a position to make a valid judgment like that?

The only person who writes on this public forum who is able to offer any "valid judgment" about anything is Craig Cameron.

[Demon Disciple 12,071]

I just cant believe that we would consider resigning Daniher! Nothing against the guy but this guy has had 10yrs with different lists but still cant fix the mental toughness issue. The side continues to have up & down years & long losing streaks. Sorry but if the club wants to achieve a winning culture they need to send a message to the playing list. As far as what coaches are available plenty of assistant coaches Longmire, Harvey,Odonnell all have done apprenterships under premership coaches and as players too & have been around thetype of culture that is required at the MFC

Could not agree with you more Dees64. Sure we have had injuries this season, WGAF. I would even be tempted to trade some of our more experienced players. We only have 2 players that are willing to take the game by the throat and turn it on its head. Neita, who's gtone by the end of next year and McLean, who will always be injury prone. Danners has had a decade to get the list he wants, the majority of that list are too mentally soft.

The first quarter against Sydney was a shocking effort. We didn't even try (atleast it look like that). The attitude from the majority of our players sucks. Danners can't control this. But if they just aren't trying then they aren't playing for the guernsey or the coach. If that's the case we need a new coach. And our players need a kick up the arse.