Now that we have last nights practice game out of the way, I cant wait for the real stuff more then ever!

Chris Johnson will be a permanent in our starting 18 this year, and he will shine.

Look at the amazing amount of toughness we have to come back in round 1 - Pickett, Brock, Whelan Sylvia, Moloney. Wow

Throw in Johnstone, Davey, Bartram, White and Holland and we have one hell of a side

I hate St. Kilda, particularly Milne and Riewoldt. We will murder them, and I expect Byron to hurt someone.

Friday night at the MCG.

Bring it on!!!

I hate St. Kilda, particularly Milne and Riewoldt. We will murder them, and I expect Byron to hurt someone.

You just had to go there, didn't you?

Now we're sure to lose! <_<

After watching the game against the hawks I also can't wait for the start of the season. To have 10 of our best 25 out and besides running out of legs the last quarter be more than competetive against a team on the rise with most of their players in gives me a lot of optimism for the start of the year.

Very impressed with Buckley and CJ. With Sylvia, Bartram and probably Moloney underdone for the start of the season C.J will have to be in our best 22 and Buckley will be very close.

Green, Bell and Jones had excellent 1st halves but when the Hawks got on top they struggled a bit.

Brown's pre season form and the final against Freo puts him in front of Ward IMO.

I would still have Yze and Miller in our best 22 but they surely must be under the pump, a few more bad games and they will be at Sandy. As soon as Dunn becomes better overhead and becomes fitter it could signal the end of Miller because Miller's endurance is the only thing that is keeping him in our best 22. For Sylvia to arrive as a footballer he must take over Yze's position. He is a lot better overhead mark than if he can get over his OP and get to some sort of fitness base then Yze days will be numbered if he keeps playing like this.

B: WHELAN, CARROLL, HOLLAND

HB: BROWN, RIVERS, BELL

C: JOHNSTONE, MCLEAN, GREEN

HF: DAVEY, MILLER, PICKETT

F: ROBERTSON, NEITZ, YZE

FOLL: WHITE, BRUCE, MCDONALD

IC: BATE, JONES, C.JOHNSON, JAMAR

EMERG: WARD, MOLONEY, BUCKLEY

I am also too pumped up for round 1

B: WHELAN, CARROLL, HOLLAND

HB: BROWN, RIVERS, BELL

C: JOHNSTONE, MCLEAN, GREEN

HF: DAVEY, MILLER, PICKETT

F: ROBERTSON, NEITZ, YZE

FOLL: WHITE, BRUCE, MCDONALD

IC: BATE, JONES, C.JOHNSON, JAMAR

EMERG: WARD, MOLONEY, BUCKLEY

Not sure about that team. Here is mine:

B: Whelan, Carroll, Holland

HB: Bell, Rivers, Ward

C: Johnstone, Bruce, Green

HF: Pickett, Dunn, Davey

F: Robertson, Neitz, Yze

FOLL: White, McLean, McDonald

IC: Bate, Moloney, C. Johnson, Jamar

EMERG: Brown, Jones, Bizzell

Not sure about that team. Here is mine:

B: Whelan, Carroll, Holland

HB: Bell, Rivers, Ward

C: Johnstone, Bruce, Green

HF: Pickett, Dunn, Davey

F: Robertson, Neitz, Yze

FOLL: White, McLean, McDonald

IC: Bate, Moloney, C. Johnson, Jamar

EMERG: Brown, Jones, Bizzell

CJ to start, and jones to be on the bench and that is a fantastic team for Round 1.

For me the only contentious point is dunn or miller. The dunn clan will argue and the miller brigade will contend miller is better. At the moment miller offers physicality and dunn skills/goals.

For me the only contentious point is dunn or miller. The dunn clan will argue and the miller brigade will contend miller is better. At the moment miller offers physicality and dunn skills/goals.

As meaningless as the pre-season competition is, after the game last night I now have Dunn ahead of Miller in my starting 22.

If you asked me yesterday morning I would have said Miller, but not anymore.

Who knows, that could change again before Round One, but I doubt it.

CJ to start, and jones to be on the bench and that is a fantastic team for Round 1.

For me the only contentious point is dunn or miller. The dunn clan will argue and the miller brigade will contend miller is better. At the moment miller offers physicality and dunn skills/goals.

Classy, what does that physicality actually do? Not much by the looks of it. Miller has little or no presence so I am not sure what it brings with 3 possessions

Its disappointing that those that were on Millers side prior to that game have got off his support. Nothing I saw of Miller was different to what I saw of Miller over the past two years.

Unless he picks up uncontested chest marks on the centre wing, he just does not have the smarts or skills closer to goal.

I am not so sure its a Miller vs Dunn matter. Miller is not the CHF many posters have been pining for. While Dunn is better skilled footballer, I would like a more consistent application of his skills throughout the game. Its a big ask in his second year but I think Dunn will make it up forward. Miller wont.

Im willing to give Miller 3 or 4 games at CHF in the real season before totally dis regarding him as our CHF option.

After playing so well against Freo last year i know its in him, he just have to have a game like he did against freo to get confidence and then he will be fine.

Maybe wishful thinking? But yeah i am still gunning for him

toughness is irrelevent and wasted if you are unable to actually do anything constructive with it !!

Nothing I saw of Miller was different to what I saw of Miller over the past two years.

You mustn't have seen the last 2 games of last year, both being finals. The last game he single-handedly brought us back into the contest and was the only player that gave us a chance of winning in seriously hostile territory (I was there).

Credit where its due.

You mustn't have seen the last 2 games of last year, both being finals. The last game he single-handedly brought us back into the contest and was the only player that gave us a chance of winning in seriously hostile territory (I was there).

Credit where its due.

I saw the St Kilda game. I saw the Freo game on TV. I have also seen him regularly over the past four years.

He was ordinary against St Kilda.

We were pantsed in Freo in the final. Miller played his trademark game of picking up nearly 20 largely uncontested possesions on the lead up on the wing. It was his best game for a while but IMO his influence was not siginficant on the tenor of the game. And thats the rub with Miller and posters are starting to see it. We were never a chance in that match and Miller's efforts did not change it.

It only confirmed that unless Miller can play that one style of game to achieve a near serviceable standard he will not be able to provide consistently up forward on different grounds, against different teams in different situations.

While I disagree with your assessment, at least you dont flip off his support due to one poor game like others have done.

I know what I get from Miller and its not good enough up forward. I hope he proves me wrong. From the intraclub and NAB game I have seen nothing that would alter my opinion that I have held for some years. The disappointing part is that I cut him some slack last year because of his early season OP issues. I understand there are none of those complaints this year. So the excuses are running out for a player now in his 5th year of AFL.

Classy, what does that physicality actually do? Not much by the looks of it. Miller has little or no presence so I am not sure what it brings with 3 possessions

bugger all...i completely agree with you, just stating what is perceived as strength of millers AS COMPARED TO dunn.

i personally think he would be better used as a tagging tall defender, that is told to stand next to at all times a pavlich or a tredrea and that way if he gets 3 possessions and the forward 8 possessions and a goal then it is almost a win for us

...

The sad thing is that Miller is better as a forward than a back...

The sad thing is that Miller is better as a forward than a back...

Disagree. Playing forward is more difficult than playing back because ultimately you have to create and make the play and take advantage of opportunities that come forward. Playing back your primary role is to negate the ability of your opponent, a forward to receive and take advantage of the ball.

The requirement for play creation and making demands at the very least greater skills to be a forward than to be a backman. This is not to classify all forwards skillful and backman as neanderthals. It recognising the basics that is required

Miller has show he does not have the smarts or the skill sets to consistently perform as a forward. As a consequence, he limitations suggest if he is going to make it, its down back.

Classy, your observation is correct about where Miller's best opportunity lies. His best game last year for mine was when we played Freo at home and he held Pavlich to few possessions (and he had to chase kicks up on the wing) and had few himself. He wont beat a Pavlich every week but he is more value to the team that way than 20 uncontested possessions on a wing which had no noticeable impact on the game.

The proof is in the pudding.

Miller has been hopeless down back. The only time he has played well has been on Hall at the SCG.

The proof is in the pudding.

Miller has been hopeless down back. The only time he has played well has been on Hall at the SCG.

To be fair Miller has not been used much down back and there have been two instances on Hall in the few times he has been back. Also Pavlich at the MCG last year. He is not going to be a world beater down there

I am looking at Miller's limited skills and based on the simple requirements for a forward/back I believe his future is down back.

And you are right the proof is in the pudding.

He has shown time and time again he is a limited forward who is just about invisible inside 50. He is not up to it.

Unfortunately for him last year Holland stepped up when Miller was out of the side after the Freo game. And Holland is no shoo in. We need someone to play on the opposition gorillas. And I think that is Millers best show for the future.

I dont think we play a traditional CHF (few teams do these days) and I dont think the lead up to the wing old style player cuts it. And his record proves it.

Reply to Demonster

sorry, just making sure I understand you.

Are you seriously implying that because Miller played 1 blinder (you're generous to give him two) that he is worth 22 rds of ho-hum football.

If he looks as disinterested and lost out there again, surely he will be heading to platform 8 for a serious look at himself and his future.

Brad green said that last year (commenting on his 05 year season during 06) the difference between his good games and his p@ss poor ones were too great and that he was aiming for a more consistantly good performance. He needs to sit down with Miller.

I agree about the dunn is better than miller thing and hope that dunn can make his way to chf instead of miller. miller's so called 'super' game was at the waca where he took uncontested marks and had so much space in front of him, he only kicked 1 goal, hardly the standard of a real chf. I like dunn more than miller and hope that his development kicks on so he can make his mark at afl level. The only thing left is how will our line up look with Newton and Garland in the future.

Miller's had more than enough chances to prove he can cut it in the big time and he's come up short with a few exceptions. Can't fault his attitude but his skills betray his background. If he'd grown up in Springvale it might have been different.

Put Dunny at CHF for the first six weeks, Miller at Sandy and then take a raincheck. Dunny needs to get experience week in week out and get used to the pressure of AFL. Playing him now and then isn't helping his development or the teams for that matter.

Disagree. Playing forward is more difficult than playing back because ultimately you have to create and make the play and take advantage of opportunities that come forward. Playing back your primary role is to negate the ability of your opponent, a forward to receive and take advantage of the ball.

I disagree with this while having to make plays up forward while up back ur always on the back foot (exclusize pun) and having to react to the forwards reactions. Good backman make the forward play to them (millar does not do this).

Dunn still hasnt quite devolped into the CHF that he needs to be so continue to play Millar at CHF till dunn is ready or has overtaken Millar (by a fair way) but dont keep either in sandys for to long otherwise they will get to rusty and the only way either will develop into real CHF is to get game experience this is also what i believe is another factor in Millars like of form.

In conclusion play millar and dunn throughout the season evalute the better of the 2 at the end of year. Try millar in back but if no improvement then stop entirely. Dunn still devolping but when ready he will be the true CHF and when this happens Millar will become nothing more than depth and trade bait. (2009)

Milleris no good

Thank Christ we have Lynden Dunn

Its time to forget Brad Miller, and move on

he wont be in the AFL next year

....Good backman make the forward play to them (millar does not do this).

Bollocks. A backman's first job is to stop a forward. Its that simple. I am talking about Miller being serviceable not good.

Dunn still hasnt quite devolped into the CHF that he needs to be so continue to play Millar at CHF till dunn is ready or has overtaken Millar (by a fair way) but dont keep either in sandys for to long otherwise they will get to rusty and the only way either will develop into real CHF is to get game experience this is also what i believe is another factor in Millars like of form.

Brad Miller has had 90 games and this is his sixth year of football so how much more experience does he need to do the basics?

In conclusion play millar and dunn throughout the season evalute the better of the 2 at the end of year. Try millar in back but if no improvement then stop entirely. Dunn still devolping but when ready he will be the true CHF and when this happens Millar will become nothing more than depth and trade bait. (2009)

What is a "true CHF" or "real CHF" in today's football? Its a lot different to what it was 5 years ago. Miller and Dunn are different types of players and I dont think you can play one beside the other with our game plan.

If it's going to take you until 2009 to work out that Miller cant play CHF, what sort of valuable cherry will other clubs toss up to gain such a catch?

Rhino a forwards job is FAR EASIER than a backmans. But I will concede that forwards are usually more creative players. Backman have the ever present connumdrum of deciding when and whether to defend or attack. Forwards usually only have to decide to defend and we know they don't all do that, and most that do don't do it very well!!

On the Miller thing..

I have always seen Miller as a Full Forward played out of position.

His hard leading, ususally good contested marking and appetitie for the physical stuff are all the right attributes for a bash and crash ff in the mould of Neita.

Yes, he will never be in the same class as Neita, but he will contest, win enough of his own ball, create enough opportunities for crumbers and provide enough assists to hold down the position regardless of how many goals he kicks himself.

That said I doubt we will see him get a chance there unless (touch wood) Neita goes down with a long term injury.

I agree he has to show something this year to justify his spot, either forward or back. But I wouldn't be off-loading him until we have a genuine replacement for Neita if he decides to retire before the team goes through another rebuild.

Go Dees - "It's Miller time".

I agree with you, Mousey. OK , Miller did nothing on Sunday, but what about his form in the last couple of games last year, when it really mattered!