The adventures of President Donald Gump

[Wrecker45 3,378]

49 minutes ago, Macca said:

Was going to say the same re the Trump/Russia ties investigation dating back to July

Imagine if that news had been made public back then?  Then again any investigation of this sort might be compromised if it's made public.  

Didn't stop Comey from going public on the Hillary investigation (which lasted a week)

Regardless, I'm not sure full disclosure would have changed the minds of Trump voters anyway.  Hindsight tells us they seemed to be well and truly locked in.  Those rust belt States were his.  

Other, associated issues would have come into play.  Trump won the Republican nomination on July 19 so that might have been a close call (re the investigation starting date)

Anyway, interesting times ahead (as always)

The (un)disclosure on Trump has everyting to do with cause of investigation. 

Either way Comey is in trouble. As far as i can see there are 2 possibilities.

1) there was an onging legal inestgation into Trump's dealings with Russia. - in which case that needed to be disclosed before the election

2) there was an ongoing legal investigation into Trump's dealings with Russia and it did not pass the pub test. There is something to hide.

 

[Macca 17,009]

14 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

The (un)disclosure on Trump has everyting to do with cause of investigation. 

Either way Comey is in trouble. As far as i can see there are 2 possibilities.

1) there was an onging legal inestgation into Trump's dealings with Russia. - in which case that needed to be disclosed before the election

2) there was an ongoing legal investigation into Trump's dealings with Russia and it did not pass the pub test. There is something to hide.

 

Or Comey is incompetent or biased

Or he may have seen the Hillary investigation & the Trump/Russia investigation as completely different to each other (for various reasons) 

Bottom line is the Russian stuff is not going away and could drag on for months. 

The Hillary stuff is now largely irrelevent ... that ship has sailed.  We know who won and now we judge the winner only. 

 

[nutbean 8,838]

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/22/politics/us-officials-info-suggests-trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians/index.html

It is heating up. 

Whether it is true and whether it can be proven if true remains to be seen.

What is interesting is the Trump Team are distancing themselves from those who are being investigated - Paul Manafort  - "limited role for a limited time" - please.... he was the campaign manager until he resigned. Carter Paige - foreign policy adviser and Roger Stone was one of Trump's chief policy advisers. Call them periphery all you like but there is ample concrete evidence to the contrary.

 

My tip is  - there is going to be this ugly stink of collusion and the question will come down to  - what did Trump know and when did he know it.  

 

[nutbean 8,838]

58 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

The (un)disclosure on Trump has everyting to do with cause of investigation. 

Either way Comey is in trouble. As far as i can see there are 2 possibilities.

1) there was an onging legal inestgation into Trump's dealings with Russia. - in which case that needed to be disclosed before the election

2) there was an ongoing legal investigation into Trump's dealings with Russia and it did not pass the pub test. There is something to hide.

 

I have zero problem with Trumps dealing not being made public until after the FBI has investigated and come up with their conclusions - even if the conclusion is that there was co-ordination and collusion with the Russians to release stuff about Clinton. I have huge problems with Comey stating anything now about his Trump investigation and had huge problems with his handling of the Clinton investigation - ie  - letting out information before the investigation is complete.

 

But as I said previously  - the problem with saying nothing is it comes out anyway - the CNN article I quoted talk of Government sources. The leaking continues unabated.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

If there was collusion, the fish rots at the head, it is Trump who needs to be held accountable.

I have a feeling though that the next term will be like that of George W Bush. Everytime he incorrectly pronounced a word it would be played on every news reel in the world and be a great wink, wink, nudge, nudge joke for all the lefties in the echo chamber

If Obama miss pronounced something you simply wouldn't hear about it.

For Trump's term 1 or 2 it doesn't matter foreverything he says there will be some kind of alternative truth to find. Trump knows that and just doenn't five a f@ck. 

Sadly who cares about being caught out lying if whatever you say will be considered a lie anyway.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Wrecker45

[Wrecker45 3,378]

16 minutes ago, nutbean said:

I have zero problem with Trumps dealing not being made public until after the FBI has investigated and come up with their conclusions - even if the conclusion is that there was co-ordination and collusion with the Russians to release stuff about Clinton. I have huge problems with Comey stating anything now about his Trump investigation and had huge problems with his handling of the Clinton investigation - ie  - letting out information before the investigation is complete.

 

But as I said previously  - the problem with saying nothing is it comes out anyway - the CNN article I quoted talk of Government sources. The leaking continues unabated.

Nut - i think we are largely agreeing.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

19 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

If there was collusion, the fish rots at the head, it is Trump who needs to be held accountable.

I have a feeling though that the next term will be like that of George W Bush. Everytime he incorrectly pronounced a word it would be played on every news reel in the world and be a great wink, wink, nudge, nudge joke for all the lefties in the echo chamber

If Obama miss pronounced something you simply wouldn't hear about it.

For Trump's term 1 or 2 it doesn't matter foreverything he says there will be some kind of alternative truth to find. Trump knows that and just doenn't five a f@ck. 

Sadly who cares about being caught out lying if whatever you say will be considered a lie anyway.

lol, the Donald who cried wolf eh?

Sad!

[Wrecker45 3,378]

25 minutes ago, Choke said:

lol, the Donald who cried wolf eh?

Sad!

Other way around. The media calls everything a lie. When Trump does tell the absolute lie of the century and he will its justca matter of time. The media will be shouting but nobody will care because they heard the "lie" cry so many times before some justified many not.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

24 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

Other way around. The media calls everything a lie. When Trump does tell the absolute lie of the century and he will its justca matter of time. The media will be shouting but nobody will care because they heard the "lie" cry so many times before some justified many not.

Yep.

And society as a whole is worse off. No one is blameless here. Trump distorts the truth. The media distorts the truth. We keep buying newspapers.

I worry for the world our kids will inherit.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

9 minutes ago, Choke said:

Yep.

And society as a whole is worse off. No one is blameless here. Trump distorts the truth. The media distorts the truth. We keep buying newspapers.

I worry for the world our kids will inherit.

Trump doesn't just distort the truth, he flat out lies. Somehow, I find a strange comfort in it. I hated the fact Abbott said " there will be no cuts to... or the ABC", even though I wanted cuts to the ABC I didn't want him to break a promise.

Trump on the other hand is not a career politician. No need for the money and argues like I do at the pub at 2am in the morning. He is trying to break down the corrupt American political system. The Government bodies all lie and collude he just seems to take them on and not care if he gets called out for lying and playing their own game.

i'll probably regret writing this because I am all about transparency. Trump's press secretary spicer has the most difficult job in the world. He's like the Iraq communication minister saying they weren't at war even though bombs were being dropped on camera behind him.

Fake and biased news is all the rage at the moment. I have a feeling a middle of political centre website will emerge with pure factual news, no opinion and take the world by storm.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

22 hours ago, Macca said:

Or Comey is incompetent or biased

Or he may have seen the Hillary investigation & the Trump/Russia investigation as completely different to each other (for various reasons) 

Bottom line is the Russian stuff is not going away and could drag on for months. 

The Hillary stuff is now largely irrelevent ... that ship has sailed.  We know who won and now we judge the winner only. 

 

The Hillary stuff will drag much longer than the Russian investigation.

The Clinton web of deceit is complicated and their pay for speech fees were completely out of step with any other previous president. Obama who in my opinion is  a cultural icon but dud president will get no where near the same volume per pay, per speech renumeration Bill Clinton did.

The reason Bill Clinton had a disproportionate pay was because of his wife's position. I'll bet anyobody now, Bill Clinton can't claim even half the speaking fee he used to,now that his wife has lost her position of power. It was corrupt. It stunk. 

Plus all the world aid donations the Clintons got from other countries while Hillary was Secretary of State. Even Australia was donating to the Clinton foundation but has stopped now. It stinks.

Trump will get what is coming if he colluded with the Russians. The Clinton's are part of the swamp and their self entitlements are deeper entrenched into a puddle of deciept than we will ever understand.

 

 

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

42 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

Trump doesn't just distort the truth, he flat out lies. Somehow, I find a strange comfort in it. I hated the fact Abbott said " there will be no cuts to... or the ABC", even though I wanted cuts to the ABC I didn't want him to break a promise.

Trump on the other hand is not a career politician. No need for the money and argues like I do at the pub at 2am in the morning. He is trying to break down the corrupt American political system. The Government bodies all lie and collude he just seems to take them on and not care if he gets called out for lying and playing their own game.

i'll probably regret writing this because I am all about transparency. Trump's press secretary spicer has the most difficult job in the world. He's like the Iraq communication minister saying they weren't at war even though bombs were being dropped on camera behind him.

Fake and biased news is all the rage at the moment. I have a feeling a middle of political centre website will emerge with pure factual news, no opinion and take the world by storm.

We can only hope. I suspect that a few years ago this model wouldn't have worked, but now there might be a critical mass of people with an appetite for this sort of reporting.

I agree that Trump is trying to break down a corrupt political system - but his own actions (see charging the American tax payer to stay at his own resort) indicate to me that he's not going to be replacing it with anything better. His 'draining of the swamp' seems to me to be a draining of the political elite and replacement with the financial elite - his cabinet appointments have been an absolute joke.

[Macca 17,009]

11 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

The Hillary stuff will drag much longer than the Russian investigation.

The Clinton web of deceit is complicated and their pay for speech fees were completely out of step with any other previous president. Obama who in my opinion is  a cultural icon but dud president will get no where near the same volume per pay, per speech renumeration Bill Clinton did.

The reason Bill Clinton had a disproportionate pay was because of his wife's position. I'll bet anyobody now, Bill Clinton can't claim even half the speaking fee he used to,now that his wife has lost her position of power. It was corrupt. It stunk. 

Plus all the world aid donations the Clintons got from other countries while Hillary was Secretary of State. Even Australia was donating to the Clinton foundation but has stopped now. It stinks.

Trump will get what is coming if he colluded with the Russians. The Clinton's are part of the swamp and their self entitlements are deeper entrenched into a puddle of deciept than we will ever understand.

 

 

Fair points Wrecker but the here & now is what matters most ... it's what effects actual lives and hip-pockets right now.

The Clinton stuff only matters to those who could give a fig.  As stated previously, largely irrelevant to those who are judging those with the power to make actual decisions.  (Trump & his associates and the Republicans)

For that matter the Democrats is yesterday's news and so is Hillary.  We may as well be talking about a would-be coach who missed out on the top job. 

 The Dems will come again but Hillary won't.  Mind you, the mid-term election banter will start up in less than 12 months.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Macca

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

10 minutes ago, Macca said:

Fair points Wrecker but the here & now is what matters most ... it's what effects actual lives and hip-pockets right now.

The Clinton stuff only matters to those who could give a fig.  As stated previously, largely irrelevent to those who are jusging those with the power to make actual decisions.  (Trump & his associates and the Republicans)

For that matter the Democrats & Hillary  is yesterday's news.  We may as well be talking about a would-be coach who missed out on the top job. 

 The Dems will come again but Hillary won't.  Mind you the mid-term election bantering will start up in less than 12 months.

Might become relevant if Chelsea runs.

Lets hope that doesn't happen, but it's not like the Democrats are overflowing with talent right now.

[Macca 17,009]

34 minutes ago, Choke said:

Might become relevant if Chelsea runs.

Lets hope that doesn't happen, but it's not like the Democrats are overflowing with talent right now.

Ha ha! ... even if that happened it's well over 2 years away. 

In terms of governance & policy it's all about right now ... so it's about Trump, his administration and the Republicans. 

I've got nothing to let go of as I've got a foot in both camps ... having a firm belief system in either side of politics is not for me.  There's too much compromise involved otherwise. 

[Wrecker45 3,378]

53 minutes ago, Macca said:

Fair points Wrecker but the here & now is what matters most ... it's what effects actual lives and hip-pockets right now.

The Clinton stuff only matters to those who could give a fig.  As stated previously, largely irrelevent to those who are jusging those with the power to make actual decisions.  (Trump & his associates and the Republicans)

For that matter the Democrats & Hillary  is yesterday's news.  We may as well be talking about a would-be coach who missed out on the top job. 

 The Dems will come again but Hillary won't.  Mind you the mid-term election bantering will start up in less than 12 months.

No the Clinton stuff has massive flow on affects. At first I thought Trump was going about destroying "the swamp" but now I have my doubts. He is too busy tweeting and doing to little Governing.

The Clinton's epitomize what is wrong with American politics. I have written previously about their near bankruptcy and then rise to wealth beyond any of us could undertand.

FWIW I hope Rex Tillerson is calling the shots but I have lack of faith in politics. 

[Macca 17,009]

4 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

No the Clinton stuff has massive flow on affects. At first I thought Trump was going about destroying "the swamp" but now I have my doubts. He is too busy tweeting and doing to little Governing.

The Clinton's epitomize what is wrong with American politics. I have written previously about their near bankruptcy and then rise to wealth beyond any of us could undertand.

FWIW I hope Rex Tillerson is calling the shots but I have lack of faith in politics. 

What might be of high interest to you and myself personally may well be of little interest to the masses.  The truth is that our personal views aren't that important in the whole scheme of things.  

An example of that is my view that the USA should have an inexpensive medical coverage program that looks after all and sundry.   But here's the catch ... how can it be inexpensive and do the Americans want such a program anyway?  And is it ever likely to happen?  I don't believe that they are the sort of country to embrace such a scheme. 

I also have strong views about their insane gun laws and their paltry minimum wage over there.  But again, my view is irrelevant if nothing is ever likely to change.  Wasted words in fact. 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2017 by Macca

[Wrecker45 3,378]

4 minutes ago, Macca said:

What might be of high interest to you and myself personally may well be of little interest to the masses. 

My argument rests with what the masses are dealing with.  My own personal view is largely irrelevent.  

Do i sense of a bit of totalitarian or despising of the masses? 

Every person is entitled to a vote. Every person's vote counts. Majority rules.

 

[Macca 17,009]

On 3/24/2017 at 1:30 PM, Wrecker45 said:

Do i sense of a bit of totalitarian or despising of the masses?

Of course not ... I don't know how you could possibly jump to that conclusion.  Perhaps you are having trouble interpreting what I've said or you haven't read what I've said properly.  Either way, you couldn't be further from the truth. 

'Fake news' ... Wrecker style.  I might just try it myself - stay tuned.  I can play that game.

Anyway ... an example of seeing the world through the world's eyes is you forecasting  the US election as another 'Brexit' ... now that was interesting.  I interpreted that view of yours as you weighing up all the data and then arriving at a likely outcome. 

You did however have grave doubts on the day of the election and if I recall correctly, you were warming up your Hillary avatar ha ha. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2017 by Macca

[nutbean 8,838]

1 hour ago, Choke said:

Might become relevant if Chelsea runs.

Lets hope that doesn't happen, but it's not like the Democrats are overflowing with talent right now.

Surely the Clintons are not that insanely out of touch not to realise that their name will be forever mud.  If I were Bill and Hill I would be sitting young Chelsea down and say to her "sweetheart..I'm sorry but you have more chance of being elected in Australia  if you change you name by deedpoll to Dank than being elected in the US" 

Edited March 24, 2017 by nutbean

[Wrecker45 3,378]

22 hours ago, Macca said:

Of course not ... I don't know how you could possibly jump to that conclusion.  Perhaps you are having trouble interpreting what I've said or you haven't read what I've said properly.  Either way, you couldn't be further from the truth. 

'Fake news' ... Wrecker style.  I might just try it myself - stay tuned.

Anyway ... an example of seeing the world through the world's eyes is you forecasting  the US election as another 'Brexit' ... now that was interesting.  I interpreted that view of yours as you weighing up all the data and then arriving at a likely outcome. 

You did however have grave doubts on the day of the election and if I recall correctly, you were warming up your Hillary avatar ha ha. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Brexit was one reason that I predicted Trump would win but it wasn't the result, it was the way it happened, with all the lead-up polls predicting otherwise. Trump was going from state to state trying to win the Republican nomination and time after time he polled significantly better than the pre-polling suggested. It was clear to me there was a group of disaffected people, sick of being bullied by the politically correct ,willing to vote for something different in the privacy of a voting booth. 

I had my doubts on the day and was ready to change my avitar. The polling got worse than I thought was possible for people to get into the privacy of the voting booth and drain the swamp. But larger numbers did than I expected.

Now I wish Trump would get on with it. 

 

 

 

[Jara 1,153]

On 24 March 2017 at 11:49 AM, Wrecker45 said:

The Hillary stuff will drag much longer than the Russian investigation.

The Clinton web of deceit is complicated and their pay for speech fees were completely out of step with any other previous president. Obama who in my opinion is  a cultural icon but dud president will get no where near the same volume per pay, per speech renumeration Bill Clinton did.

The reason Bill Clinton had a disproportionate pay was because of his wife's position. I'll bet anyobody now, Bill Clinton can't claim even half the speaking fee he used to,now that his wife has lost her position of power. It was corrupt. It stunk. 

Plus all the world aid donations the Clintons got from other countries while Hillary was Secretary of State. Even Australia was donating to the Clinton foundation but has stopped now. It stinks.

Trump will get what is coming if he colluded with the Russians. The Clinton's are part of the swamp and their self entitlements are deeper entrenched into a puddle of deciept than we will ever understand.

 

 

Hey Wrecker - sorry, not sure how to highlight on my phone, but that bit you said about Australia donating to the Clinton foundation. Is that true? Have you got evidence (not doubting your veracity, it's just something that interests me - have heard a couple of people saying it recently. Bloke in the pub last month tried to tell me that Australia had given $17 million ((or maybe it was $70 million) towards Chelsea's wedding))?

[Macca 17,009]

12 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

Brexit was one reason that I predicted Trump would win but it wasn't the result, it was the way it happened, with all the lead-up polls predicting otherwise. Trump was going from state to state trying to win the Republican nomination and time after time he polled significantly better than the pre-polling suggested. It was clear to me there was a group of disaffected people, sick of being bullied by the politically correct ,willing to vote for something different in the privacy of a voting booth. 

I had my doubts on the day and was ready to change my avitar. The polling got worse than I thought was possible for people to get into the privacy of the voting booth and drain the swamp. But larger numbers did than I expected.

Now I wish Trump would get on with it.

Well, again, you might have come to those conclusions Wrecker but it wasn't widely reported that way ... another example of how individual thought (however correct) differs from the reality of how things are perceived.

Before the election we were hearing very little about the 'rust-belt' States and let's face it, those rust-belt states were a significant reason why Trump actually won.  Hindsight tells us many things but foresight is far more valuable.  

The so-called experts (pollsters et al) couldn't have forecast the result more incorrectly. 

As for the 2nd bolded bit, Trump is fast becoming his own worst enemy in terms of getting policy through ... or perhaps it was always going to work out the way it's working out because of the way he is.  As a result of the way he acts and of what he actually says, he doesn't have that mandate even though he has a clear majority in the House of Reps (he also does have a workable majority in the senate)

He needs to butter-up the Republicans and garner a reasonable amount of support from the Democrats (for certain policy) but apart from that, what he has said previously is coming back to haunt him (the muslim comments etc)

Whether he likes it or not, he has to play the game in order to get things done.  The new health bill has failed (perhaps permanently) and his immigration bill has also failed (for now) 

But the biggie is the manufacturing base and the jobs associated with all that ... again, we're back at the rust-belt States and the other States who's citizens are expecting real results that suits their respective hip-pockets. 

If the House of Representative numbers flip in 2018 then the conflict will increase to an unworkable situation. 

 

 

.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Macca

[Wrecker45 3,378]

1 hour ago, Jara said:

Hey Wrecker - sorry, not sure how to highlight on my phone, but that bit you said about Australia donating to the Clinton foundation. Is that true? Have you got evidence (not doubting your veracity, it's just something that interests me - have heard a couple of people saying it recently. Bloke in the pub last month tried to tell me that Australia had given $17 million ((or maybe it was $70 million) towards Chelsea's wedding))?

Absolutely 100% Gillard donated and then the Abbott Government did too. I'm flat out today but will provide links on Monday.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

Couldn't even repeal the ACA - because he couldn't get his own party to agree on it. Withdrew the bill just before it was set to be introduced to congress so he wouldn't have to suffer the defeat.

For a guy who platformed based on his ability to negotiate and 'win', he hasn't been doing much of either.

The Republicans will probably now just de-fund the ACA through budget and funding bills and then accuse the Act itself of being untenable. Probably the worst of all outcomes.

All the while he charges the American taxpayer to stay at his own resort every weekend, directly profiting from his political position. He wanted to 'drain the swamp', yet this act on its own is as patently corrupt as anything done by those he campaigned to supplant.

If I was an American I'd be very very angry. If I was a Trump voter, I'd be mega-[censored]:

- Said he'd replace the ACA, failed (unable to negotiate with his own party).
- Said he'd ban Muslim migration, failed (stayed by 2 different courts).
- Said he'd make Mexico pay for the wall, untrue (his own proposed budget shows Americans paying for it).
- Said he'd 'drain the swamp', but his cabinet picks are just as conflicted, plus Mar-a-lago issue above
- Said he'd take down ISIS in 30 days (lol)

And all the while he tweets like a thin-skinned baby when he feels like he's been insulted (inauguration numbers anyone?)