58 minutes ago, binman said:

Sorry, still not sure what you are saying. So many words. So little clarity. 

A query though. Watts played 20 games last year. Don't you think it is safe to assume the coach would not select a player who didn't understand what is being asked of him?

In fact if Roos has made one thing clear is that players will not get selected if they are not performing their role and doing what they told, that's to say a player better understand what is being asked of him (and carry out that instruction) or he won't be selected. So the only logical conclusion is that Watts understood clearly what was asked of him. Or perhaps you have another 'truth'?

Sheez

Such little humour....

Watts was gifted games because of our injuries and the hope that Roos had that his message might finally be getting through. For those that like to keep announcing that a Watts played 20 games could you please explain to the rest of us why he didn't play all 22? 

How many injuries did we have last year?

 

1 hour ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Many argue Roos isn't a match day coach and lack game plan mouse, but is the master of team building and empowering the players. Watts either doesn't understand what is being asked of him (quick, someone ask me how I know what Roos is asking of him) or can't bring himself to do it. Mentally weak and needs to go.

That explains why he played 20 games this year then..... FMD

13 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Such little humour....

Watts was gifted games because of our injuries and the hope that Roos had that his message might finally be getting through. For those that like to keep announcing that a Watts played 20 games could you please explain to the rest of us why he didn't play all 22? 

How many injuries did we have last year?

 

"Gifted" 20 games.... Riiiiiiiight....

4 hours ago, H_T said:

You can tell the truth a number of ways (manners), this doesn't necessarily confirm or mean my mentors got it wrong.

Wrong may have not been the best choice, it depends on the environment. If your raising children that may be the preferred approach but in the cutthroat world of professional sport those that dance around the facts get left behind.

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

"Gifted" 20 games.... Riiiiiiiight....

Still waiting your response in a previous thread from 3 weeks ago....

Can someone please explain why Watts was dropped twice during the year. And no I'm not buying into he dropped himself. The fact he was dropped for the last round combined with a healthy list means Jack is not a guaranteed walk up start for round 1. 

watts was dropped/dropped himself as he was playing poorly at the time.  lack of intensity and concentration over 4 quarters.

he did play some good games though

7 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Can someone please explain why Watts was dropped twice during the year. And no I'm not buying into he dropped himself. The fact he was dropped for the last round combined with a healthy list means Jack is not a guaranteed walk up start for round 1. 

Standard Watts-basher. "Sure, he played 20 games, but he was dropped for the last one, so he's gooooooone!"

 

14 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Still waiting your response in a previous thread from 3 weeks ago....

Don't hold your breath.... Actually, maybe do

33 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Watts was gifted games because of our injuries and the hope that Roos had that his message might finally be getting through. For those that like to keep announcing that a Watts played 20 games could you please explain to the rest of us why he didn't play all 22? 

How many injuries did we have last year?

 

That is complete and utter rubbish. As i have pointed out Roos made it clear no one will be gifted games. You insult him to suggest he gifted games to Watts. 

Roos has coached the dees for two season now. He selected Watts  in all 22 games in the first season and 20 of 22 in the second season. Meaning from a total of 44 games as senior coach he has selected him 42 times. And you seem to be seriously suggesting Roos (a respected, premiership winning AFL coach) has 'gifted' him those games in the hope that 'his message might finally be getting through'. That is just a nonsense proposition. 

Pot Watts all you like but Roos obviously doesn't share your opinion and i'll take his over yours if its all the same to you. 

 

Just now, stuie said:

Standard Watts-basher. "Sure, he played 20 games, but he was dropped for the last one, so he's gooooooone!"

 

Stu can you please answer the question, and also why was his name floated during trade week?

As for "Watts basher" I think I've highlighted what I believe to be both his strengths and weaknesses. As good as his strengths are they are overshadowed by his weaknesses. He has been found out by opposition coaches, simply do what Essendon did this year, put a first or second year player on him and get in his face and get physical with him.

I really think Watts will do very well when we are a good team playing to a predictable structure.

i liken him in some ways to Gaff/Sheuy or even Rioli.  how good were Gaff and Sheuy when the eagles were doing well a few years ago?  the eagles struggle and they struggle and now they look great again.  how much would people talk about Rioli if he played the last 7 years with the Dees?   Watts is a finisher - he will never be more aggressive then he is now but finishers struggle in bad teams

i cant help but hold out hope Watts will become a very important player for us.

3 minutes ago, stuie said:

Don't hold your breath.... Actually, maybe do

Unaccountable....

1 minute ago, DubDee said:

I really think Watts will do very well when we are a good team playing to a predictable structure.

i liken him in some ways to Gaff/Sheuy or even Rioli.  how good were Gaff and Sheuy when the eagles were doing well a few years ago?  the eagles struggle and they struggle and now they look great again.  how much would people talk about Rioli if he played the last 7 years with the Dees?   Watts is a finisher - he will never be more aggressive then he is now but finishers struggle in bad teams

i cant help but hold out hope Watts will become a very important player for us.

Our structure was too predictable if anything. 

And why does everything has to be in place for Watts to have a good game? Why can't he be part of the solution. 

2 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Stu can you please answer the question, and also why was his name floated during trade week?

As for "Watts basher" I think I've highlighted what I believe to be both his strengths and weaknesses. As good as his strengths are they are overshadowed by his weaknesses. He has been found out by opposition coaches, simply do what Essendon did this year, put a first or second year player on him and get in his face and get physical with him.

Oh feel free to pass on Mahoney's mobile number seeing you were clearly involved in our trade talks this year....

Certain posters here keep stating Watts was on the trade table like it was a fact, so listen carefully, it's not a fact unless you have actual proof, which you don't. So just stop that.

 

36 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Can someone please explain why Watts was dropped twice during the year. And no I'm not buying into he dropped himself. The fact he was dropped for the last round combined with a healthy list means Jack is not a guaranteed walk up start for round 1. 

He was dropped becase he wasn't playing well enough and in the last game he himself noted he needed to get more competitve, seemingly having heard and understood the message from the coach, who said much the same thing.

You say 'the fact he was dropped for the last round combined with a healthy list means Jack is not a guaranteed walk up start for round 1', which is true (though of course no player is a walk up start, including Hogan if he doesn't follw team rules and the coaches instrunctions in the pre season).

But of course that's not what you had asserted or what we were debating. For the sake of clarity you asserted:

1. Watts didn't understand what was being asked of him by Roos
2. Jack Watts was gifted games because of our injuries and the hope that Roos had that his message might finally be getting through.

Both assertions are, by any logical measure, highly likely to be wrong. 

46 minutes ago, binman said:

That is complete and utter rubbish. As i have pointed out Roos made it clear no one will be gifted games. You insult him to suggest he gifted games to Watts. 

Roos has coached the dees for two season now. He selected Watts  in all 22 games in the first season and 20 of 22 in the second season. Meaning from a total of 44 games as senior coach he has selected him 42 times. And you seem to be seriously suggesting Roos (a respected, premiership winning AFL coach) has 'gifted' him those games in the hope that 'his message might finally be getting through'. That is just a nonsense proposition. 

Pot Watts all you like but Roos obviously doesn't share your opinion and i'll take his over yours if its all the same to you. 

 

I think it is pretty simple.

He had his good moments last year and his not so good.

I think he needs to improve to stay on the list after 2016.

The question worth arguing is will he improve next season ?

(when I say improve I am talking him about bridging the gap between his best and worst - he will never be a crash/bash player - but if he can play the majority of games like the game he played against Collingwood in our win last season then he has value)

36 minutes ago, binman said:

He was dropped becase he wasn't playing well enough and in the last game he himself noted he needed to get more competitve, seemingly having heard and understood the message from the coach, who said much the same thing.

You say 'the fact he was dropped for the last round combined with a healthy list means Jack is not a guaranteed walk up start for round 1', which is true (though of course no player is a walk up start, including Hogan if he doesn't follw team rules and the coaches instrunctions in the pre season).

But of course that's not what you had asserted or what we were debating. For the sake of clarity you asserted:

1. Watts didn't understand what was being asked of him by Roos
2. Jack Watts was gifted games because of our injuries and the hope that Roos had that his message might finally be getting through.

Both assertions are, by any logical measure, highly likely to be wrong. 

If the message was getting through Watts  would be having a greater impact on games. Our list is still another 12 months away from having real depth. Until then Watts/Grimes/Dawes will continue to get games.

7 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Watts was off to Carlton before Roos signed. Let's cut the crap, for the last time Watts is in the top two users of the footy and has a great footy brain, so an extension of that is people can stop blaming Bailey/Neeld. Roos backed himself to turn around the one thing missing from Watts game, his attack on the footy/ball carrier. Roos along with the rest of the football world now know it's an aspect of his game that will never change. As for the asking price, like in any negotiations you always ask for more than you realistically expect, so no one even offered a second round pick. Watts is never going to impact a final. Let him go at years end and we all move on. We got this one wrong.

the best summation of the jack watts situation that I've read. 

34 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

If the message was getting through Watts  would be having a greater impact on games. Our list is still another 12 months away from having real depth. Until then Watts/Grimes/Dawes will continue to get games.

You don't seem to be getting it, which is ironic given the debate is about understanding or lack thereof. 

To say that Watts is not having sufficient impact on games is evidence that the mesage is not getting through to Watts is illogical. It plain doesn't make sense. If Roos thought Watts wasn't getting the message he would not have selected him for 42 of a possible 44 games. To me that statistic is compelling evidence that Roos believes the message is getting through. 

But we're going around in circles and seemingly are not going to agree on this so i will retire from the debate.

 

2 hours ago, H_T said:

Not for me BA. I'd rather not gamble over matters such as this. 

I don't gamble. But I made a $50 bet with a mate the other night that if we make finals next year he'll double whatever TAB's odds are (he'd be paying about 18-1).....

Figure it worth a go, it'll make the season very interesting.

4 minutes ago, binman said:

You don't seem to be getting it, which is ironic given the debate is about understanding or lack thereof. 

To say that Watts is not having sufficient impact on games is evidence that the mesage is not getting through to Watts is illogical. It plain doesn't make sense. If Roos thought Watts wasn't getting the message he would not have selected him for 42 of a possible 44 games. To me that statistic is compelling evidence that Roos believes the message is getting through. 

But we're going around in circles and seemingly are not going to agree on this so i will retire from the debate.

 

No circle work here.

I wasn't part of the chorus of people saying this time last year "look at how much depth we've got". We are still 12 months away at least from having real depth. 

Because of Watts ability Roos talked Watts out of leaving for Carlton. Because of Watts soft nature getting him to become aggressive in his attack was never going to happen over night. It was always going to take time. Part of the process would of been building up his confidence, something which would of been time consuming and time spent better else where. Because Watts is mentally weak if Roos was to have dropped him in his first year of coaching it would shot Watts confidence to pieces. Hence Watts has played they amount of games he has, in Roos second year as coach Watts was dropped twice (if he didn't drop himself he was gone anyway), next season Watts will be under the pump to keep his spot. Other factors to Watts getting a game include Roos inheriting one of the worst lists in recent history as well as injuries to key players.

Happy to take a couple of $100 bets that 2016 is his last season at the club.

56 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Because of Watts ability Roos talked Watts out of leaving for Carlton.

Still waiting on ANY kind of proof of that, you know, seeing you're using it as the crux of your argument.

 

With Melksham, Bugg, Kennedy, Frost, Petracca and Oliver coming in whilst only really losing Cross and Howe- I'd say Jack is going to find it tougher than he ever has to get games in 2016.