I really love Scott Thompson but remember we replaced him straight away with Moloney. Certainly Thompson is better but it's not like we really lost a whole bunch. You can't say that one change has led us to an epic wreck.

I certainly agree that the Daniher years were full of lack of consistency, lack of effort against top teams and all round clearly there wasn't commitment to excellence. When the teams lost some of their better players we didn't have a generation of leaders. We had McDonald, Green, Bruce and Davey to lead us forward when Bailey inherited the job in 2008. That's not a strong culture.

The Woey decision still makes me ill. He was the sort of character that younger players learn from - someone who was structured, hard working and disciplined. A player who was admired and respected. We lost a hell of a lot when we let him go. I think plenty of supporters still feel cheated by that move.

The main problem I have noticed over the 15 odd years with our culture is that we have been in the 'all we need to do' mindset. By this, I mean that supporters and the club to an extent get into the mindset that all we needed to do was (not in chronological order):

1) Take Joe Gutnick's money

2) Bottom out in 2008 and 2009 to get draft picks

3) Move from the Junction Oval

4) Sack the coach (Dean Bailey)

5) Recruit Jeff White from Freo.

These strategies were simplistic and short sighted. It was never asked 'What then?' after each of these steps were taken (in all honesty, there was a little forward planning when Neeld was bought in but we all know how that turned out). These things were always viewed as an end, not a means.

Other causes:

a) No one has been prepared to dig in like an Ian Dicker at Hawthorn or a Frank Costa at Geelong and tried to build a football club from top to bottom. This includes building social clubs and facilities, stability in coaching, developing your own players and sticking fat when times are tough. It includes stuff like Dee-luded has said about a social club but includes so much more. Jimmah tried to do this in some areas and while some of his vision was flawed, there were other areas where he was spot on. He however was cut down before he could take it any further.

b)Besides harebrain schemes like China and the outlier of Debt Demolition, we have been too much of a follower and not enough of a leader since I have been a supporter (24 years). In short, we are reactive. People like Caro, Barrett, Maclure, Robbo and company must rub their hands together because as soon as they tell us what we need to do, we will do it. We need to stop listening to the people whose agenda is to raise TV ratings and sell newspapers. That's not to say we don't seek advice. Just make sure it's advice from people who have the best interests of MFC in mind.

That pretty much sums it up, the media are talking about who should be our new coach, without any respect at all to the incumbent and this will be their new agenda until they achieve their goal. In the past it seems as if we've recruited on the basis of who it is the media thinks we should and who they believe suits our needs the most, let's hope we ignore them if we do decide to choose a replacement.

In regard to Woey I think that moment proved to the players that we would show no loyalty to them and would dispose of them when it suited us, the subsequent treatment of Junior just confirmed that we are a soulless football club.

That pretty much sums it up, the media are talking about who should be our new coach, without any respect at all to the incumbent and this will be their new agenda until they achieve their goal. In the past it seems as if we've recruited on the basis of who it is the media thinks we should and who they believe suits our needs the most, let's hope we ignore them if we do decide to choose a replacement.

In regard to Woey I think that moment proved to the players that we would show no loyalty to them and would dispose of them when it suited us, the subsequent treatment of Junior just confirmed that we are a soulless football club.

Yeah no doubt Robbie. Get outside consultants to the club if you must but don't listen to donkeys like Sellers, Caro, Iron Mike or that crowd.

Some might say they were right about our current situation but Sight Impaired Frederick can see what is/was going wrong. It's when they are trying to push a certain agenda, that's when we need to ignore them and make our decisions for ourselves. When they are acting as stenographers, fine. When they are trying to be players, it's to boost their own ratings. Not out of a love of our football club.

I actually worry that Peter Jackson and Jeff will be the next step in the 'All we have to do' mentality. As though these blokes will come in and just click their fingers and the club will become functional again. It will take the work of many a committed person over many years to turn this ship around.

Same, I couldn't care when it all started, let's just concentrate on fixing this mess up!

Agreed, who cares, kill this thread

Yeah no doubt Robbie. Get outside consultants to the club if you must but don't listen to donkeys like Sellers, Caro, Iron Mike or that crowd.

Some might say they were right about our current situation but Sight Impaired Frederick can see what is/was going wrong. It's when they are trying to push a certain agenda, that's when we need to ignore them and make our decisions for ourselves. When they are acting as stenographers, fine. When they are trying to be players, it's to boost their own ratings. Not out of a love of our football club.

I actually worry that Peter Jackson and Jeff will be the next step in the 'All we have to do' mentality. As though these blokes will come in and just click their fingers and the club will become functional again. It will take the work of many a committed person over many years to turn this ship around.

For those reasons alone Colin, I'm really glad we're getting some outside perspective from people like Jackson..and possibly Kennett. People who will set a much higher standard and not slip into the mindset of mediocrity that has prevailed at the club for too long. We used to delight in winning games of footy, but we've been starved of success for so long, that in recent times terms like 'competitive quarters' and six goal losses have been dressed up to be positives. It's time to break that cycle.

We have been quite philosophical tonight, I would like to add a quote of my own for those who think that everything in the past is irrelevant:

'Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.' George Santayana

I see us taking short cuts again by getting PJ to put a decent football department in place but then just carrying on with the same old attitudes.

.........................

In regard to Woey I think that moment proved to the players that we would show no loyalty to them and would dispose of them when it suited us, the subsequent treatment of Junior just confirmed that we are a soulless football club.

Not sure its as simple as that.

Poor list management had us paying way overs for a number of players, including Woewodin who scored a big contract after his Brownlow (no doubt courtesy of some hot-shot manager). Woewodin had a very average season, and there was a club willing to take him before he lost all currency (ironically the filth). Don't know if he had the option of a pay cut to stay - doubt it with how managers were/are?

Plenty on these boards are happy to speculate about trades and values; this is/was no different. Hardly souless.

Junior's final year was problematic - lot of lost injury time. His exit was handled badly, and he should have been kept on IMO, but I doubt he would have had much match day impact.

Ed: missing word