I suppose that Richmond could also make an argument for the breaks going their own way. They did lose quite a few games, particularly early on in the season against good teams that were definitely winnable. I remember they did everything but win against Geelong in one game and they were stiff to lose when Brock McLean fluked a late goal against them. However, they also put in some horrible efforts with the Gold Coast fiasco being the highlight. They had a few off field distractions with Connors and Martin but nothing like ours with Jurrah although Martin and Edwards have already bobbed up as issues for them going forward. Their injury problems were nowhere near as bad as ours.

My recollection of our last game against them was that the Tigers were hardly impressive in beating a weakened Melbourne team by 3 or 4 goals. I would expect that we could at least come close to making up that ground with a decent part of our new list fit and available.

If everyone seems happy with our fowards ad fairly happy with our backs and think its our midfield thats the problem (myself included) then how do we fix it? Do we draft young gun mids and wait 6 years for them to peak? I dont think so that would leave our more middle age fowards and backs too old.

So what if we target a gun midfielder either our of contract or free agent. Who would we be after? or what type of player?

Jack, my recollection of that match was that they were woeful but still accounted for us easily - having many more scoring shots (especially early on) but inaccuracy cost them.

They also had that game against W.C. where they were unlucky not to get the points. We'll be much better in 2013, I think, but Richmond are ahead of us.

Edit: the score for that match;

Melbourne 1.0 4.4 5.6 11.12 (78) lost to Richmond 4.6 6.12 9.20 13.23 (101)

Jack, my recollection of that match was that they were woeful but still accounted for us easily - having many more scoring shots (especially early on) but inaccuracy cost them.

They also had that game against W.C. where they were unlucky not to get the points. We'll be much better in 2013, I think, but Richmond are ahead of us.

Edit: the score for that match;

Melbourne 1.0 4.4 5.6 11.12 (78) lost to Richmond 4.6 6.12 9.20 13.23 (101)

The above score shows that we outscored them in the second quarter (due to their inaccuracy) and demolished them in the last quarter (by scoring 6.6 to 4.3)! At least it is a game where we finished well and came back at them!

Absent all of those things and suddenly, we start 2013 not as the 16th best side in the competition but perhaps as just outside the top 10, say 12th best.

The 12th best side in the competition last year was Richmond with 10.5 wins so if I'm reading you right you think that is our base line starting point at R1 and we should improve given the influx of mature recruits and the development in our 2 to 4 year players as well as FD personnel and preparation advantages. Is that right?

We have an arguably better draw this year only playing GWS, BL, GCS, WB and Freo twice whereas last year we played BL, Richmond, ST.K, GWS and Freo twice. You've got to say we've had a very easy draw in both those years.

So if our benchmark is 10.5 games plus improvement, and given average luck, how many games do you think we should win?

If everyone seems happy with our fowards ad fairly happy with our backs and think its our midfield thats the problem (myself included) then how do we fix it? Do we draft young gun mids and wait 6 years for them to peak? I dont think so that would leave our more middle age fowards and backs too old.

So what if we target a gun midfielder either our of contract or free agent. Who would we be after? or what type of player?

Who was the last gun midfielder who moved clubs for other than ridiculous money (Ablett and Scully) or to go home (Judd and Caddy)?

Clubs don't give them up and IMO whilst you do what you can the likelihood of getting a gun mid is negligible. It's why Bailey and Prendergast erred so much in only taking 3 genuine mids (and I have my doubts on Trengove) with the 8 top 20 picks they had over 3 years. Sadly two of those have gone and it's put us back 3 years. A golden opportunity lost. Let's hope the current crop can do the job.

Who was the last gun midfielder who moved clubs for other than ridiculous money (Ablett and Scully) or to go home (Judd and Caddy)?

Clubs don't give them up and IMO whilst you do what you can the likelihood of getting a gun mid is negligible. It's why Bailey and Prendergast erred so much in only taking 3 genuine mids (and I have my doubts on Trengove) with the 8 top 20 picks they had over 3 years. Sadly two of those have gone and it's put us back 3 years. A golden opportunity lost. Let's hope the current crop can do the job.

Yes it has to be money or go home, but the fact is we need one soon. Who on our list looks like they may become a gun, I mean brownlow form elite....

I think we need to buy one, or bring one home

The 12th best side in the competition last year was Richmond with 10.5 wins so if I'm reading you right you think that is our base line starting point at R1 and we should improve given the influx of mature recruits and the development in our 2 to 4 year players as well as FD personnel and preparation advantages. Is that right?

We have an arguably better draw this year only playing GWS, BL, GCS, WB and Freo twice whereas last year we played BL, Richmond, ST.K, GWS and Freo twice. You've got to say we've had a very easy draw in both those years.

So if our benchmark is 10.5 games plus improvement, and given average luck, how many games do you think we should win?

Haven't had a good look at the draw or thought about it much as yet and I'm not prepared to accept that the benchmark for 12th would be 10.5 games just because that's what 12th place did this year. Things should even out a bit as we improve along with the two new franchise clubs. However, if we get a good run with injuries and the gods smile on us in other areas, I'd be looking at at least a 50% win/loss ratio in 2013.

Who was the last gun midfielder who moved clubs for other than ridiculous money (Ablett and Scully) or to go home (Judd and Caddy)?

Clubs don't give them up and IMO whilst you do what you can the likelihood of getting a gun mid is negligible. It's why Bailey and Prendergast erred so much in only taking 3 genuine mids (and I have my doubts on Trengove) with the 8 top 20 picks they had over 3 years. Sadly two of those have gone and it's put us back 3 years. A golden opportunity lost. Let's hope the current crop can do the job.

Scully is a gun midfielder?

I can't believe that it's a little under two years ago that I witnessed Scully tear it apart during an MFC practice session at Casey Fields. He was absolutely sensational and head and shoulders above everybody else on the park. However, whether it's injury, a swollen head, the weight of his wallet or whatever, he hasn't come close to being entitled to such an accolade in the last two years and I wouldn't even utter his name in the same sentence as Ablett.