Chappy, culture personified!

[NorwoodDemon 20]

Does anyone know if there is a link or website that has ALL the free agent players for next season????

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/141723/default.aspx

[dee-luded 2,959]

Well Deeluded you are uncannily thinking like the club.

The club sees the need to recruit good players from great clubs who will give us 2-3 years. You are spot on and someone like Chappy will be closely looked at for all the reasons you have mentioned.

I certainly hope so, & feel humbled if true.

We need players with attitude & discipline, to show the Way out of this Passive Dark Rabbit Burrow we've been down for generations.

2 years heavily front ended, 1 isn't enough. Next year he'll help the seniors up the ladder showing the ways & which direction is UP.

The following year, we won't know how his body & mind is til then, but may surprise being surrounded by younger guys. He will be able to teach, swinging between the Dees & Casey. And he find the new challenge rewarding.

[1 red eye 1 blue eye 771]

I think he'd relish going to a club with a fresh young group of talented mids.

[nutbean 8,838]

I think he'd relish going to a club with a fresh young group of talented mids.

I couldn't see him being shifted with a crowbar and ten tonnes of TNT.I just dont think it is in his DNA.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I couldn't see him being shifted with a crowbar and ten tonnes of TNT.I just dont think it is in his DNA.

So we shouldn't even try?

[1 red eye 1 blue eye 771]

I couldn't see him being shifted with a crowbar and ten tonnes of TNT.I just dont think it is in his DNA.

I know where your coming from, he's trying to squeeze some extra security out of the [censored]'s but if both party's play stubborn?

[dee-luded 2,959]

IMO we need one or two mentors for a Yr or two.

Players who are near the end, who would play both in our seniors & @ Casey, to help us learn & to Mentor our young with Onfield professional & winning culture.

Chappy is reputedly the one who stood up at that Cats meeting so many years ago and demanded more of a professional attitude from the Cats.

He has the guts to do what he sees as the right thing, instead of sitting on his hands.

He has the aggressive winning attitude onfield we sadly miss. He won't go into his shell.

Apparently we need to spend some salary cap as we wait for our Kids to mature into Real Players who would then expect a higher salary.

Chappy IMO is one who fits the bill, for a healthy 2 Yr contract to help convince him, & is an Unrestricted Free Agent.

We could also afford another, to help balance our books, and eradicate the poor culture.

I'm not done yet, says 30-year-old Geelong star Paul Chapman

http://www.dailytele...r-1226425683900

bump.

[1 red eye 1 blue eye 771]

Totally agree with you PF, would be next to impossible you would think to get him across but I'd be ecstatic if the club made a committed attempt to lure him.

[Hannibal 5,814]

More kids isn't the answer...

Chapman has been a battering ram and is getting slower and slower. I love the guy's character, but he's one calf injury away from not playing again..

And I disagree with you on more kids not being the answer. The right kids are most definitely the answer. There will be players in this draft that will be the equivalent of Selwood, Judd, Hodge, Murphy, etc. History shows this to be the case.

Is the following your position ? That we only have so many spots on the list, so rather than getting a couple of kids at pick 60+, that in all likelihood won't impact our list, why not get some character builders onto the list even if it's for only a year, or two. Sav Rocca thought Brereton was a great help to his footy even though he was only at Collingwood for one year. But I'd rather go down the youth path and try and get a Rockliff, Dylan Grimes, Hibberd, or Hardingham onto the list that were all drafted in the Preseason Draft. They'll be on their club's list for 10 years, rather than one or two. Hawthorn got Savage in the ND at pick 75, Puopolo was in the 60's, and Collingwood got Sinclair at 62. Suckling came off a rookie list. So did Hanley and Broughton. Pods was a rookie. So was Blair and Garlett. Michael Barlow too. And the list goes on and on. Sure the last few were rookies and we have rookie spots too, but my point is that they could have been drafted anywhere, save for Hanley. Talent identification is crucial.

We've gone down the youth path and we need to stick with it. We just need to get the right kids. We've got strong young leaders who'll only grow and people such as Neil Craig, Rawlings, Neeld and Brown are already instilling the required values. There's no quick fix and a thirty year old for a year or two won't add much to what is already in place.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[Guest]

Put frankly, I like Chappy's on field attitude but off field he is a little shaky isn't he? What ever happened to that incident where he allegedly got those blokes out front of the KFC in Moorabool Street where they were throwing coins at him?

[Hannibal 5,814]

Our culture died the day Norm Smith got sacked, When Barrassi left the club when Tommy Scully did a runner and when we got rid "Prematurely" of a great cultural MFC ICON Junior Mc Donald.

You're just rambling. You're mentioning a hotchpotch of stuff and wrapping it all up together to try and find a meaning. Culture isn't defined by one event, it's defined by the collective leadership group of a club.

Geelong still has great culture even though Ablett left. Geelong still has great culture even though Costa is no longer President. Geelong still has great culture even though Bomber Thompson is no longer coach. Geelong still has great culture even though premiership captain Tom Harley retired. Geelong still has great culture even though premiership captain Cameron Ling retired. Do you know why ? They still have a fantastic leadership group driving and enforcing their culture. They're instructing younger players what is expected, so they in turn can one day lead the way.

The day it dawns on supporters that a club's culture stems from their leadership group is the day they'll start understanding the game. Our leadership group is the youngest of 18 teams. Our culture will come if Trengove, Jones, Grimes and hopefully Viney become leaders that ensure a quality culture and become the players to match. But clearly it will take time.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Chapman has been a battering ram and is getting slower and slower. I love the guy's character, but he's one calf injury away from not playing again..

And I disagree with you on more kids not being the answer. The right kids are most definitely the answer. There will be players in this draft that will be the equivalent of Selwood, Judd, Hodge, Murphy, etc. History shows this to be the case.

Culture isn't defined by one event, it's defined by the collective leadership group of a club.

Geelong still has great culture even though Ablett left. Geelong still has great culture even though Costa is no longer President. Geelong still has great culture even though Bomber Thompson is no longer coach. Geelong still has great culture even though premiership captain Tom Harley retired. Geelong still has great culture even though premiership captain Cameron Ling retired. Do you know why ? They still have a fantastic leadership group driving and enforcing their culture. They're instructing younger players what is expected, so they in turn can one day lead the way.

The day it dawns on supporters that a club's culture stems from their leadership group is the day they'll start understanding the game. Our leadership group is the youngest of 18 teams. Our culture will come if Trengove, Jones, Grimes and hopefully Viney become leaders that ensure a quality culture and become the players to match. But clearly it will take time.

You could almost frame this stuff. The sooner people realise this the better.

[dpositive 1,663]

Wow

Culture is such a small word for what is such a complex idea.

Club culture is a small part of the culture of the country or race but nonetheless it does exist.

I have been concerned that people have identified a new coach as necessary to change the culture of the club or here that the culture stems from the leadership group.

While both of these are true to some extent "the culture" must be embraced and inclusive.

There is no point in the leadership group wanting to attack down the centre if the rest want to go round the flanks and the general wants to attack with long bombs from the rear.

These though are tactics in the battle or the game

I understand that a new coach wants to bring his winning culture to the club and will set his resources and tactics to achieve that, but if he is concentrating on changing the club culture and not on the part of the culture he has direct control and responsibility for then I may get concerned.

If the club culture tells the coach to honour its aging players at the expense of winning then that fundemental clash may not allow him to achieve his personal culture. If instructed to develop or instructed to lose that instruction may clash with the culture of a club that demands only win at any cost.

As I said this is such a complex area and I did study this too long ago as part of my professional development that I have almost forgoten how it is to be applied in an organisation.

I shall return to my research and thank you all for your contributions to the intellectual stimulation that Dland brings. I certainly dont think I am correct or the sole sourcxe of all knowledge and welcome alternative insights But maybe thats my culture???

[Hannibal 5,814]

I might be rambling but you are delusional. Trengove is lucky he is captain because based on his form this year shouldn't be getting a game .. but guess what he still is and do you know why??? Because he is Captain. So we are supporting are we, a culture that plays a captain based on just this feature? Never mind his youthfulness and at the moment inability to lead, never mind his slow leg speed, never mind his failure to play to the level he did last year. Is he displaying the cultural aspects which define successful footy clubs? I would like to know which cultural aspects appeal here that will manifest into winning games of footy and lets not beat around the bush winning games of footy is what it's all about!

Kindly inform me which Cultural features you have seen develop in our leadership group?? Grimes also has his flaws and his turnovers really have hurt this year, is this also again a cultural thing. Both these boys might well be great fellows in many aspects but have been placed into positions way beyond current capabilities.

In fact it could be argued in Trengoves case this experience may well lead to further disintegration as a player! Lets hope not but if so where is your Cultural development then??

You also mention Viney in the same context > Give me break he is not even at the club yet, what do you know about his ability as a leader? may well be a great Junior player but he is unproven until he actually plays.

Chunky Jones is a hard nut blue collar hero who is defining his own culture through performance, but that is only part of the whole makeup of culture in its broadest sense. I'll say it again lets hunt some players whose culture is well defined and would complement the development and rebirth of an MFC culture, one which is sustainable and worth speaking about.

Oh and one other thing Geelong are current premieship holders and with a great winning culture attached, I don't see any current silverware in our trophy cabinet. Hmm 48 years must be a Cultural thing eh?

You're an ignoramus.

I'm simply giving you a free lesson on you what drives the culture of a footy club. You're views on our culture, our prospects to improve it, or our current stake holders in this regard don't interest me.

[dpositive 1,663]

Thanks Dpositive, two questions,

1 Exactly what "Cultural" aspects do we want?

2 How do we obtain these?

They are the two greatest imponderables and have me reaching for my text books

Although ultimately the culture needs to come from within and be embraced by all.

That does include as I said supporters and maybe we are finding it from the diversity of Dland contributors Im probably hoping someone like old dee will start a spreadsheet or similar to consolidate in a simple fashion

I did like " the hardest side to play" as part of the culture but there already exists much within the MFC history, and administration already which can and probably should be applied. I always remember being taught dont throw the baby out with the bathwater

and to obtain it we need to have the players who are going to present that option to their opponents on the field that week

I have said on other threads we may lose but if like the olympic rowers (who finished nowhere I think) the competitors were totally and utterly spent having given their best they lose no respect from me.

This argument is alittle disjointed and I hope you get my drift Will probablyy return to it after a suitable period of reflection.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Chapman has been a battering ram and is getting slower and slower. I love the guy's character, but he's one calf injury away from not playing again..

And I disagree with you on more kids not being the answer. The right kids are most definitely the answer. There will be players in this draft that will be the equivalent of Selwood, Judd, Hodge, Murphy, etc. History shows this to be the case.

Is the following your position ? That we only have so many spots on the list, so rather than getting a couple of kids at pick 60+, that in all likelihood won't impact our list, why not get some character builders onto the list even if it's for only a year, or two. Sav Rocca thought Brereton was a great help to his footy even though he was only at Collingwood for one year. But I'd rather go down the youth path and try and get a Rockliff, Dylan Grimes, Hibberd, or Hardingham onto the list that were all drafted in the Preseason Draft. They'll be on their club's list for 10 years, rather than one or two. Hawthorn got Savage in the ND at pick 75, Puopolo was in the 60's, and Collingwood got Sinclair at 62. Suckling came off a rookie list. So did Hanley and Broughton. Pods was a rookie. So was Blair and Garlett. Michael Barlow too. And the list goes on and on. Sure the last few were rookies and we have rookie spots too, but my point is that they could have been drafted anywhere, save for Hanley. Talent identification is crucial.

We've gone down the youth path and we need to stick with it. We just need to get the right kids. We've got strong young leaders who'll only grow and people such as Neil Craig, Rawlings, Neeld and Brown are already instilling the required values. There's no quick fix and a thirty year old for a year or two won't add much to what is already in place.

BH, to renovate a house you have to pull things out before replacing them with the new, good

You're just rambling. You're mentioning a hotchpotch of stuff and wrapping it all up together to try and find a meaning. Culture isn't defined by one event, it's defined by the collective leadership group of a club.

Geelong still has great culture even though Ablett left. Geelong still has great culture even though Costa is no longer President. Geelong still has great culture even though Bomber Thompson is no longer coach. Geelong still has great culture even though premiership captain Tom Harley retired. Geelong still has great culture even though premiership captain Cameron Ling retired. Do you know why ? They still have a fantastic leadership group driving and enforcing their culture. They're instructing younger players what is expected, so they in turn can one day lead the way.

The day it dawns on supporters that a club's culture stems from their leadership group is the day they'll start understanding the game. Our leadership group is the youngest of 18 teams. Our culture will come if Trengove, Jones, Grimes and hopefully Viney become leaders that ensure a quality culture and become the players to match. But clearly it will take time.

Rubbish!

The culture comes from the whole club, the Admin, the playing Leaders, the Leadership group, the rest of the List, the support staff, & the SupporterS.

The Culture is incredibly difficult to 'Right', once its slipped, for generations.

The supporters of a Club, who have a tenacious winning attitude to they're playing style, are often attracted to that hard edged style in the first place. A blood thirstiness of sorts.

When the day comes where the players let they're guard down & start getting soft, These supporters will pull the stands down letting the club know it's not good enough

Supporters, who collectively are continually polite and understanding, undermine the hard edged desire of all at the clubs to perform over & above others clubs levels to achieve they're Goals.

The end result is a culture that becomes inbred into the very fibre of the Club, from the wall fittings to the bootstudder, to the President, to the Supporter groups, & finally to the opposition as well who Fear playing against this culture...

After prolonged success, apathy can creep in, & take hold like Golden Staph.

A knightmare to remove.

[dpositive 1,663]

Yep agree 110% Now there is a cultural statement 110% That'll do for starters.

Havent had enough reflection and would not be so presumptous as to say I could present the only and total solution.

not being critical but I think I have been told that from a pure maths perspective 110% is impossible as that mark then becomes 100% the full value against which other things are measured but I also do get your drift

as well as deeluded with whom I also agree BUt there are aspects of out and out "tenacious attitude" or "hard edged style thatare as equally negative as a "continued politeness" and "understanding"

Apathy at success can also creep in to a hard nosed club until you develop an unsociable or undesirable attitude .

I think I said it was complicated and I am reassured that we have a richness at Melbourne that is still craving our turn at success and is passionate about our club but is able to recognise the broader elements of competition.

[Hannibal 5,814]

BH, to renovate a house you have to pull things out before replacing them with the new, good

Rubbish!

The culture comes from the whole club, the Admin, the playing Leaders, the Leadership group, the rest of the List, the support staff, & the SupporterS.

The Culture is incredibly difficult to 'Right', once its slipped, for generations.

The supporters of a Club, who have a tenacious winning attitude to they're playing style, are often attracted to that hard edged style in the first place. A blood thirstiness of sorts.

When the day comes where the players let they're guard down & start getting soft, These supporters will pull the stands down letting the club know it's not good enough

Supporters, who collectively are continually polite and understanding, undermine the hard edged desire of all at the clubs to perform over & above others clubs levels to achieve they're Goals.

The end result is a culture that becomes inbred into the very fibre of the Club, from the wall fittings to the bootstudder, to the President, to the Supporter groups, & finally to the opposition as well who Fear playing against this culture...

After prolonged success, apathy can creep in, & take hold like Golden Staph.

A knightmare to remove.

Having listened to AFL players such as Mooney and the great Glenn Archer let me tell you that a club's leadership group determines the culture of a club. My Brother was on Hawthorn's list when they were winning flags and I know his view too. But I only need to look at Geelong's departures, such as Ablett, Thompson, Costa, Ling, Harley and Milburn to know that their on-field leaders are the real drivers of their culture. When you lose a premiership coach, two premiership captains, your best player and your President and still have a great culture it's crystal clear that the leadership group is still setting the example and driving the culture. Their challenge will come when a whole squad of the remaining leaders, such as Scarlett, Kelly, Enright, Bartel and Corey go.

Haven't you heard Parkin talk of his 1995 Carlton Premiership team ? He's stated on numerous occasions that they coached themselves. He's intimated that he virtually wasn't required. Who do you think was driving their culture ? And what happened to their culture when all of their best senior players left ? Pagan had great culture at North and a poor culture at Carlton. Do you wonder why ?

Hawthorn won a flag under Allan Joyce in spite of him. The senior players loathed him, but they drove the culture. And proceeded to win more flags once he'd gone to Footscray.

Brisbane didn't have a great culture when Matthews arrived, but they had a really talented young list that was on the verge of developing into a quality team. Matthews created an environment and disciplines that quality players with great leadership traits embraced. Those group of leaders drove the culture of the club, not the supporters, not the President, not the lunch lady, not the receptionist, it was the players and more significantly the leaders. It's no surprise that three of those leaders are now senior AFL coaches. Matthews couldn't have done it without talented individuals with leadership skills at his disposal. Do you think Brisbane had culture before Matthews arrived when 90% of the club's office bearers and employees were the same ?

I'm trying to force feed you logic, but if you can't, or won't understand that's up to you. At least you're in good company with p/fence.

Note: if your team lacks talent, it won't matter how good your coach, or leadership group is, you won't have success. Then again if it lacks talent it won't have a good leadership group. One requires the other.

Culture = leadership group

Edited August 6, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[dpositive 1,663]

BH I did like your post coz there is some truth in it

What you are largely refferring to is the playing culture and you are correct with all the examples you give,

Was that playing culture an identified part of the club culture? was it desirable that players achieved in spite of the coach? (perhaps if achievement was part of the club culture)

I think you might be underestimating the president the tealady and the supporters of Brisbane

perhaps they all wanted that success and recognition so badly that it infused the team of players

Are the three leaders now going to be overridden by their players leadership group culture?

Can they or should they impose their culture over an existing culture?

It is what makes it so difficult and Im not even sure there is a logic to it but rather than try and impose my will I will continue to try and monitor the culture of this club and as i Said hope that someone can collate the valid expressionns of Dland

perhaps we just might find a Dland culture

Perhaps we might find that the dland supporters culture reflects all supporters the members and is embraced by thepresident and the tea lady the coach the leadership groupand the players

I just hope that we are all in accord and that there is not conflict between any "cultures".

[deejammin' 2,360]

Culture has become a buzz word for winning in the afl, thats all it is, consistant success.

It doesn't matter if half your team are smashed off their faces on coke, that your captain needs to be replaced as he's far too addicted to drugs to be the face of your club, that a mere 2 years after your success several players OD, one fatally. That is a terrible state of affairs for a club, but you know what, they won so hey great culture.

It doesn't matter if one of your star players hangs out with bikie gangs, shoots up cop shops, if members of your leadership group lie to presidents and the police about serious car accidents, if members of your team are telling drug testers "you won't catch me" or if your head coach and assistant hate eachother and are on the brink of a meltdown due to a botched sucession plan. They won so their culture is great!

It doesn't matter if your star player cares so little for your club that he leaves the place where he and his father become legends for a shitload of money to get flogged every week, or if your coach at the time abuses aforementioned star player for the same act he then pulls by abondining the club, lying about it and going behind admins back. They won, so you know what their culture is great!

It doesn't matter if your team hate eachother because of 2 rape incidents, whilst other members take nude photos of eachother and let them end up on the internet causing major feuds, they still have great players and still win more than they lose, so their culture is far better than ours....

Its a chicken and egg argument, the only common thread I can see is that if you win more than you lose your 'culture' is better, end of story.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Having listened to AFL players such as Mooney and the great Glenn Archer let me tell you that a club's leadership group determines the culture of a club. My Brother was on Hawthorn's list when they were winning flags and I know his view too. But I only need to look at Geelong's departures, such as Ablett, Thompson, Costa, Ling, Harley and Milburn to know that their on-field leaders are the real drivers of their culture. When you lose a premiership coach, two premiership captains, your best player and your President and still have a great culture it's crystal clear that the leadership group is still setting the example and driving the culture. Their challenge will come when a whole squad of the remaining leaders, such as Scarlett, Kelly, Enright, Bartel and Corey go.

Haven't you heard Parkin talk of his 1995 Carlton Premiership team ? He's stated on numerous occasions that they coached themselves. He's intimated that he virtually wasn't required. Who do you think was driving their culture ? And what happened to their culture when all of their best senior players left ? Pagan had great culture at North and a poor culture at Carlton. Do you wonder why ?

Hawthorn won a flag under Allan Joyce in spite of him. The senior players loathed him, but they drove the culture. And proceeded to win more flags once he'd gone to Footscray.

Brisbane didn't have a great culture when Matthews arrived, but they had a really talented young list that was on the verge of developing into a quality team. Matthews created an environment and disciplines that quality players with great leadership traits embraced. Those group of leaders drove the culture of the club, not the supporters, not the President, not the lunch lady, not the receptionist, it was the players and more significantly the leaders. It's no surprise that three of those leaders are now senior AFL coaches. Matthews couldn't have done it without talented individuals with leadership skills at his disposal. Do you think Brisbane had culture before Matthews arrived when 90% of the club's office bearers and employees were the same ?

I'm trying to force feed you logic, but if you can't, or won't understand that's up to you. At least you're in good company with p/fence.

Note: if your team lacks talent, it won't matter how good your coach, or leadership group is, you won't have success. Then again if it lacks talent it won't have a good leadership group. One requires the other.

Culture = leadership group

I've just ventured back to this page & see your answer.

Force feed, the last person that tried that lost they're hand.

I've been around a few years more than You mate.

Now, I've been around clubs re igniting the culture you try to speak of, & your right in what you touch on, but you can only see the Tip of the problem & not the body of it.

I've met Parkin, when he was coaching, a few times, & spoken to him a few times. I've heard him speak on things footy.

And I've been around Footy people & Coaches of a higher standing then Parko.

Edited August 6, 2012 by dee-luded

[rpfc 28,207]

If increased time on this earth equates to knowledge and understanding I might break a few records as I get older...

[dee-luded 2,959]

"And I've been around Footy people & Coaches of a higher standing then Parko"

Dee-luded, curiosity has got the better of me!!

Would love to know who these people might be

Can you reveal info??

Ta "Fence"

message sent

Edited August 9, 2012 by dee-luded

[Guest José Mourinho]

Picket fence, how can you say it's time to cast off the deadwood, then propose we recruit Chapman?

He has been part of a winning culture, but he is not responsible for it, regardless of what you'd like to believe.

And he's not far off needing a bloody walking frame - how does he instill a winning culture if his presence on the field holds the team back through a lack of pace and diminishing ability?

If he's not on the field... He'd be a coach.

& there's better options out there.

[Guest José Mourinho]

It's a lot easier to "not accept losing" when you're a gun player surrounded by other guns.

You need the talent first.