I don't think you could say Bailey modelled us on Geelong!

  On 29/05/2012 at 04:45, Surfer Rosa said:

Surprised at the Mooney love but it only takes a new voice and people are smitten. But he is only up against back slappers and mates of the media.

Terribly covered our game is by the majority of media. Cam Mooney wouldn't have given the time of day to any commentator giving opinion outside of the club while he was playing.

Pretty sure his opinion was that they are mostly a waste of time. Now he is one as the bills have to be paid.

I don't need his reinforcement to see what is going on at MFC. He is just offering an opinion like the rest if us.

What he has said here Mark Neeld and others have already said, where is the difference? Just a new voice making it seem clearer?

I think he's just a bloke who often makes a lot of sense, offers good insight, and doesn't make an effort to sensationalise anything.

And then when someone like that makes a point, based on first-hand experience, that others have been making but few are listening, then it gives some of us a form of panacea.

Where Mooney's real value lies is in his recent experience in the game, within a very successful organisation, and he has played with and against a lot of the teams and players he is asked to discuss.

I also think he understands what it takes to win a flag, and to just win in general (not all at Geelong would).

And he understands structures, where to run, etc. and he can articulate himself.

Which is surprising, considering my opinion of him through most of his playing days.

  On 29/05/2012 at 05:04, Hardnut said:

Could not disagree more - this is a very negative approach which goes against every natural instinct of a young footballer. Far better to begin with the positives (which is why we recruit young talented players) and then fine-tune techniques, which means the players enjoy the game and learn at the same time (eg Adelaide this year).

I think they had a pretty solid grounding in strong defensive footy under a bloke who now works for the MFC...

  On 29/05/2012 at 03:18, José Mourinho said:

What diesel said.

I think most reasonable people already realise this, but it's nice to hear it reinforced, especially by someone who seems to have such a good grasp on the modern game.

Moons used the term "re-wire" once or twice in reference to how our players play the game.

It also had me asking a few questions myself, that I hadn't yet fully considered..

Some of the players on our list now seem incapable of playing defensively.

Especially more senior players.

Is this because that's the type of player they always were?

And they stuck around on the list because they were able to play that gameplan?

Or did they become like that after Bailey's coaching? Or both?

Did Bailey always intend to use that gameplan, and play and coach players accordingly?

Or did he find himself with a list where their strengths lay in this "front-running" brand of footy?

Did he actually waver himself and compromise his gameplan?

I imagine it was mostly Bailey and his gameplan, but not absolutely.

A lot of people talk about the senior players inability to adapt to the new gameplan, and it's quite possible they can't / won't (or at the very least are finding it a lot tougher)

What I think a lot of people also don't take into consideration is that the bulk of our young talent we are relying on (Watts, Trengove, Grimes, Blease, Strauss, Gysberts etc.) have only been coached Bailey (aside of course one preseason and 8 matches under Neeld)

People are expecting these kids to take to it like a duck to water, but it will take them time as well

Mooney basically said what we've all been saying, but good on him for doing so

  On 29/05/2012 at 04:45, Surfer Rosa said:

Surprised at the Mooney love but it only takes a new voice and people are smitten. But he is only up against back slappers and mates of the media.

Terribly covered our game is by the majority of media. Cam Mooney wouldn't have given the time of day to any commentator giving opinion outside of the club while he was playing.

Pretty sure his opinion was that they are mostly a waste of time. Now he is one as the bills have to be paid.

I don't need his reinforcement to see what is going on at MFC. He is just offering an opinion like the rest if us.

What he has said here Mark Neeld and others have already said, where is the difference? Just a new voice making it seem clearer?

He could've taken the media path and just sunk the boots in more like they all have been (even supposed "supporters" in Sheahan comes out of "retirement" to stick the boots in)

At least he took a considered and measured approach to our plight

  On 29/05/2012 at 05:00, the master said:

I'm glad he's not bashing Neeld, but that only means he's not a peanut like the commentators who are.

However we can't misunderstand a rewiring to defensive game plan as an excuse to play as poorly as we have.

The other thing we have to 'rewire' is the desire to play consistent hard at it, hard running footy for the whole game. Very few on our list have seemed to understand this. Be it attacking or defensive play not enough on our list have the mental or physical characteristics to compete for 120 minutes.

I respect Green for his actions on the weekend but I use his injury as an example of what has been wrong. It may simply have been an unfortunate incident but the way I see it is that years of poor preparation, poor training and not enough experience has led to him getting a bruised lung for putting his body in harms way. I get the feeling that if you swapped Green and Selwood that Selwood wouldn't have been off to hospital after that contact. Now Green has at least set a benchmark it means someone like Bennell has to work harder in the gym, train harder and hit the footy even harder than Green did. We need the same leadership from Clark, Frawley and Jamar when it comes to playing like talls and from guys like Moloney when it comes to midfield work rate. If Moloney can't bring it then Trengove and McKenzie have to set the bar.

I agree that it should not be an excuse, but I don't dwell on that because I have faith Neeld will remove those that aren't contributing and have no value, come the end of the season.

I hate to use Green as an example, because the bloke did put his body on the line and end up in hospital as a result, but leading up to his injury, I was wondering what the hell he is doing out there.

He was completely ineffectual.

He doesn't lack endeavour, but he definitely lacks the physical attributes to influence the game in any way, unless it is a desperate act like the one that saw him taken off.

I was kinda sad seeing it.

And I've been wanting to move on Green for 2 years now.

  On 29/05/2012 at 05:13, rpfc said:

I think they had a pretty solid grounding in strong defensive footy under a bloke who now works for the MFC...

And who lost the players, and they could not run out games or seasons, and they were not creative (crowbotics), and they were not enjoying their football which they clearly are now - haven't we had this discussion before rpfc?

Actually V12, I think that's probably the best thing about Mooney - he has been in the game recently enough to have an opinion, rather than only getting one from what he hears elsewhere and unwittingly regurgitating what is said in the media, that usually originates from a shock jock like David King.

  On 29/05/2012 at 05:19, José Mourinho said:

I agree that it should not be an excuse, but I don't dwell on that because I have faith Neeld will remove those that aren't contributing and have no value, come the end of the season.

I hate to use Green as an example, because the bloke did put his body on the line and end up in hospital as a result, but leading up to his injury, I was wondering what the hell he is doing out there.

He was completely ineffectual.

He doesn't lack endeavour, but he definitely lacks the physical attributes to influence the game in any way, unless it is a desperate act like the one that saw him taken off.

I was kinda sad seeing it.

And I've been wanting to move on Green for 2 years now.

I think Green peaked in his 2010 season. He was still valuable to us last year, but was clearly on his way down. He hasn't been great so far in 2012 and has missed quite a bit of footy so far due to injury, but I still believe he has something to offer. It was great seeing him put his body on the line on the weekend and it really gave the whole team a lift. I think that Green has been a great servant to our club and if he can put together some form over the last half of the season he should be given another year.

  On 29/05/2012 at 05:20, Hardnut said:

And who lost the players, and they could not run out games or seasons, and they were not creative (crowbotics), and they were not enjoying their football which they clearly are now - haven't we had this discussion before rpfc?

Have we?

Craig gets no credit for what happened/is happening at the Crows unless it is negative?

What legacy has he left the Crows?

Would we be better off he has a similar effect at the Dees?

Answer these somewhat rhetorical questions.

  On 29/05/2012 at 05:53, rpfc said:

Have we?

Craig gets no credit for what happened/is happening at the Crows unless it is negative?

What legacy has he left the Crows?

Would we be better off he has a similar effect at the Dees?

Answer these somewhat rhetorical questions.

I think Craig is in an ideal position now at the MFC, he is responsible for building people and according to Mak Ricciuto he was fantastic for the Crows players and making them better people in his time at Adelaide.

  On 29/05/2012 at 05:23, José Mourinho said:

Actually V12, I think that's probably the best thing about Mooney - he has been in the game recently enough to have an opinion, rather than only getting one from what he hears elsewhere and unwittingly regurgitating what is said in the media, that usually originates from a shock jock like David King.

Agreed

I disliked Mooney immensely as a player, I was commenting to a mate a couple of weeks ago how refreshing he is as a commentator

It's only an opinion and not fact. Mooney is just trying to increase his media profile like all the other sheep.

Mooney was just an average player in a good side.

in a couple of weeks/months things will change again.

  On 29/05/2012 at 06:27, disco_demon said:

It's only an opinion and not fact. Mooney is just trying to increase his media profile like all the other sheep.

Mooney was just an average player in a good side.

in a couple of weeks/months things will change again.

How is he like all of the other sheep?

He's actually taken time to dissect out situation instead of just [censored] canning us like everyone else

  On 29/05/2012 at 06:27, disco_demon said:

It's only an opinion and not fact. Mooney is just trying to increase his media profile like all the other sheep.

Mooney was just an average player in a good side.

in a couple of weeks/months things will change again.

You sound like another sheep, criticising a past player in the media for trying to increase his profile instead of realising it's actually a reasonable analysis.

Dare I say it, just an average post in a good thread?

Cam Mooney is just a shiny new voice.

As knowledgeable on the game as David Schwarz.

  On 29/05/2012 at 05:53, rpfc said:

Have we?

Craig gets no credit for what happened/is happening at the Crows unless it is negative?

What legacy has he left the Crows?

Would we be better off he has a similar effect at the Dees?

Answer these somewhat rhetorical questions.

If they are rhetorical questions they don't need answers.

However, I view a coach in terms of success over 7-10 years. I agree Craig did some good work at Adelaide, but in the last few years it wasn't working. There have been similar situations at many clubs over the years - coaches have a good first few years but then can't take it further. MFC is struggling to get even the first few years at this stage! No, I don't believe Craig will succeed at MFC.

It comes down to a difference of opinion on coaching techniques etc. I am happy to agree to disagree.

I'm not usually wont to quote myself ... but I will.

From the 'Everyone Stand Up And Applaud Mark Neeld' thread of a few weeks back.

Posted 12 May 2012 - 07:44 PM

He (Neeld) has been prepared to put self-satisfied noses out of joint, sack ineffectual leaders, drop soft no. 1 draft picks and most importantly completely dismantle a useless game plan that would have seen us fold under the first sign of trouble in a final. And he's prepared to get flogged week-in week-out, enduring the inevitable calls for his sacking by supporters fearful of change, in order to get the job done.

Cam Mooney. Finally a commentator who understands what's going on. And he should know!

  On 29/05/2012 at 08:26, Range Rover said:

I'm not usually wont to quote myself ... but I will.

From the 'Everyone Stand Up And Applaud Mark Neeld' thread of a few weeks back.

Posted 12 May 2012 - 07:44 PM

He (Neeld) has been prepared to put self-satisfied noses out of joint, sack ineffectual leaders, drop soft no. 1 draft picks and most importantly completely dismantle a useless game plan that would have seen us fold under the first sign of trouble in a final. And he's prepared to get flogged week-in week-out, enduring the inevitable calls for his sacking by supporters fearful of change, in order to get the job done.

Cam Mooney. Finally a commentator who understands what's going on. And he should know!

Personally, I welcome considered, thoughtful change - in fact, I love change and the challenges that it brings. What saddens me most about MFC is that we are 4.5 years into a period of wrong decisions, and yet still we have those who refuse to see that MFC continues to make massive errors of judgement when choosing staff in various areas to take us into the future. RR, you seem so accepting of what is handed down from above, and worse still you suddenly have a new friend in CM! He may be right, but he is only just starting out as a commentator - really!

iNTERESTING observations. thanks for posting.

  On 29/05/2012 at 08:59, Hardnut said:

Personally, I welcome considered, thoughtful change - in fact, I love change and the challenges that it brings. What saddens me most about MFC is that we are 4.5 years into a period of wrong decisions, and yet still we have those who refuse to see that MFC continues to make massive errors of judgement when choosing staff in various areas to take us into the future. RR, you seem so accepting of what is handed down from above, and worse still you suddenly have a new friend in CM! He may be right, but he is only just starting out as a commentator - really!

Neeld is administering the medicine that we have need to take a as a club for decades. Yes, it tastes yucky ... but most good medicine does.

And why is it '"worse still" that Cam Mooney agrees? Multiple flags and a sustained period of recent success at the best football club of the past 50 years would suggest otherwise.

  On 29/05/2012 at 07:58, Hardnut said:

If they are rhetorical questions they don't need answers.

However, I view a coach in terms of success over 7-10 years. I agree Craig did some good work at Adelaide, but in the last few years it wasn't working. There have been similar situations at many clubs over the years - coaches have a good first few years but then can't take it further. MFC is struggling to get even the first few years at this stage! No, I don't believe Craig will succeed at MFC.

It comes down to a difference of opinion on coaching techniques etc. I am happy to agree to disagree.

From 2005, his second year, to 2009, his 6th, Craig won 75 games and lost 44. It's a very good record. He finished with 92 and 74.

The guy knows what he is doing.

  On 29/05/2012 at 08:26, Range Rover said:

I'm not usually wont to quote myself ... but I will.

From the 'Everyone Stand Up And Applaud Mark Neeld' thread of a few weeks back.

Posted 12 May 2012 - 07:44 PM

He (Neeld) has been prepared to put self-satisfied noses out of joint, sack ineffectual leaders, drop soft no. 1 draft picks and most importantly completely dismantle a useless game plan that would have seen us fold under the first sign of trouble in a final. And he's prepared to get flogged week-in week-out, enduring the inevitable calls for his sacking by supporters fearful of change, in order to get the job done.

Cam Mooney. Finally a commentator who understands what's going on. And he should know!

And lets hope some posters here finally understand what Neeld is doing, it still might take some time but it's the right time to do this.

Wow.. Just heard the interview what a revelation to have common SENse in the media

It took me a while to start warming to Neeld (like most) I'm sure but from the mounting [censored] he's coping even by our supporters at games I think they have to get a grip and live with the changing format. At 1st I thought why didn't Neeld just tweak the existing games structure to give us realistic chance of winning on all levels both on & off the field, then I started just this week after the Carlton game thinking, to go with his style with an inherited list will determine for him and match committee who can adapt and who realistically is never going to make the grade. I'm seeing a much better 2nd half of the yr in terms of endeavor (not wins) with guys a) realizing their careers are on the line ( as often is the case in latter parts of seasons) but B) seeing that guys do want to be part of a well oiled machine off the field and with the wealth of experience that will carry them forwards. That's my take , I'm sticking fat with Neeld and believe the words of thie Moooon. I just want to know why Harf didn't rephrase the initial question like, " so what do you think of the Suns? being a Mooooon

  On 29/05/2012 at 09:15, rpfc said:

From 2005, his second year, to 2009, his 6th, Craig won 75 games and lost 44. It's a very good record. He finished with 92 and 74.

The guy knows what he is doing.

Reasonable winning record no doubt, but If he knew what he was doing he would still be there and headed for a flag!

  On 29/05/2012 at 09:08, Range Rover said:

Neeld is administering the medicine that we have need to take a as a club for decades. Yes, it tastes yucky ... but most good medicine does.

And why is it '"worse still" that Cam Mooney agrees? Multiple flags and a sustained period of recent success at the best football club of the past 50 years would suggest otherwise.

Good medicine doesn't need to taste 'yucky' - this is the 21st century!

The 'hairy cat' knows football, but he is learning a new game - commentating - which is very different from coaching.