This piece about 190 as distinct from 186 is also up on the Match Preview thread but since we feel that it's worthy of a topic on its own, we reproduce it as a separate thread:-

WE'VE BEEN THIS WAY BEFORE by Whispering Jack

Last week's 186 point defeat at Skilled Stadium was not as bad numerically as the club’s Round 17, 1979 loss at the hands of Fitzroy at Waverley. The margin in that game was 190 points but there are already arguments as to which was the worst performance.

Demonland poster Redleg was the Team Manager in 1979 under captain coach Carl Ditterich who had taken over the reins at the previous year's wooden spooner from Dennis Jones. He was also at Geelong on Saturday to see what was to become Dean Bailey's last as coach of the Melbourne Football Club.

Redleg believes that today's style of football with its zoning and presses is far less conducive to blowout results than it was back then. The current side is also far more talented than the one that took the field against the Lions on that day of records 32 years ago. He is gobsmacked that a side containing so many top draft picks and one that had the talent to be the core of a team that has won three times this year by around 15 goals could put in such a wretched performance.

Back in 1979 the club brought big Carl back for a second stint after he first crossed from St. Kilda under the controversial 10 year rule (the competition's forerunner to free agency). This time he was to be the playing coach. The club also recruited flamboyant Collingwood star Phil Carman along with Magpie Wayne Gordon, the three Elliott brothers from St. Kilda, Glen, Robert and Bruce, Stewart Gull from South Melbourne and Cameron Clayton from the Tigers. Among the promising youngsters introduced that year were Gerard Healy, Peter Giles and Tasmanian Tony Martyn. Much was expected from these players but they hardly delivered in 1979 - the team rose one place to finish 11th in a 12 team competition.

By Round 17 things had turned sour for the Demons who went into the game without Ditterich, Carman and the team's star player Robert Flower. The team for the game against the Lions was:

Backs L Fowler S Smith B Denny

Half backs C Clayton P Giles G Hutchison

Centreline A Martyn G Elliott P Seaton

Half forwards G Healy A Dullard R Elliott

Forwards M Byrne R Biffin P Thorne

Followers G Baker G Gaunt G Wells

19/20 J Durnan K Whitfort

Redleg recalls the game was an unmitigated disaster. Apart from missing those key players, the team lost one or two early with injury, the Lions seized the initiative and their momentum grew as the game went on. Nothing went right for the Demons and, as Fitzroy got on top of them, the players' heads dropped. They were trying hard but basically nothing worked. Changes were made throughout the game but the Lions were on a roll. It was a humbling experience for Redleg as team manager. The team lacked talent. There were a few who were past it and others who only got games because others were injured. Some of the better players were not playing and it told on the team but Redleg insists that they never once stopped trying.

The end result was Fitzroy 36.22.238 to Melbourne 6.12.48.

Goals Gaunt 2 Biffin Durnan Healy Thorne

Best Gaunt Fowler G Elliott Clayton Seaton Giles

It was a hollow feeling for the team manager as he entered the rooms after the loss. Ditterich was livid. One or two committee were there and that was about it. There were no supporters to console the players; they had long ago gone home.

"Carl told me in no uncertain terms that it was up to me to “(expletive) talk to them”, and he collected his gear and went home.

Redleg sat with the players. The mood was glum and nothing was said for about 15 minutes.

"A couple of them kicked their lockers. A few others showed some anger and then I just got up, told them to shower, then move on and put this behind them. I said I'd see them at training on Tuesday and that was it. No committee meetings, a bit of bad press and Carl was there at training as if nothing had happened."

On the Tuesday, Carl made no reference to the previous weekend's debacle. He had moved on, the players had moved on and all thoughts were focussed on the game against Essendon the following week at the MCG.

"Let's just beat those (expletive) pricks!"

And beat them, they did.

"There were a few changes, Carl and Robbie were back. 'Piggy' Walters was in at full forward. Steven Smith went to centre half forward and Peter Hamilton came in to full back. The vibe was positive, confidence was restored and the team won by 29 points with Piggy kicking nine goals, Smith and Wells, four each. The turnaround that day was amazing and Carl stayed at the end to address the players in the crowded rooms."

Redleg remains an optimist and believes Melbourne's result last week was an aberration and that the playing group, as it did back in 1979, has an enormous challenge to regain credibility in the eyes of their fans and the football world.

"I've seen the game's most massive turnaround in the space of a week - 219 points. I know it's possible because I've seen it before and I know what a tough taskmaster Todd Viney can be. Just like Carl, it's hard for anyone to look blokes like those in the eye if they don't put their heads down or go hard at the football.

"Carlton is a talented team but they've been off the boil lately, Melbourne owes them one from last time and then there's also an outside finals chance. That sounds far-fetched after 186 but I know from experience that anything could happen on Saturday."

The Demons are no strangers to dramatic turnarounds on the appointment of caretaker coaches. Greg Hutchison who played on a half back flank on that ill-fated day in 1979 won his first game against the Tigers and Mark Riley did likewise against the tanking Blues ten years later. Recently deposed Adelaide coach Neil Craig coached for the first time as caretaker against raging favourites and finals bound Melbourne after Gary Ayres was sacked in 2004. The Crows who had previously been unable to raise a whimper, won by 74 points.

Redleg couldn't be drawn in to make a prediction but I was at the G in 1979 when the Demons turned things around and beat the Bombers and I'm expecting similar things again this week when we'll see history repeat itself.

Melbourne by 33 points.

Unfortunately they'll soundly beat us. Carlton by 6 goals (I've mentally redefined valiant defeat, sound beating, flogging and mauling after last week...anything under 10 probably sounds good)

True story. My brother walked out of that 1979 Fitzroy match and his mate turned to him and said :"I didn't think we played that bad."

Good on you jack.

I like it.

Can Carl and Robbie come back this week too?

Can Carl and Robbie come back this week too?

As I recall, neither Carl nor Robbie had a great influence on the result of the Essendon game. It was more a case of the players who were subdued against the Lions coming out and playing with renewed fire. Greg Wells, Glenn Elliott and Steve Smith were fantastic and the inclusion who really made the difference was Walters who came into the side and booted nine goals. It was easily his best game ever. The other thing about the game was the positional changes so that we went from having a completely impotent forward structure to one that, on the day, was a big strength. The two key forwards kicked 13 goals between them.

Carl and Robbie played their roles but they didn't win the game for us.