well you are discussing issues of media sensationalism and bias, i'm not interested in such things. If we become premiership contenders then the blokes at the top of our best and fairest list will be stars no matter what the big-club-pandering media has to say about it

you've just said he might end up a James Hird type, which is one of your three examples of a 'star'. If Watts ends up this type of player why will he not be recognised like Hird was? Just becaue he was drafted at 1 as a KPP, who cares?

For some reason it seems to matter, don't know why it does but it does. I rate James Hird and would love Jack Watts to be seen at the end of his career in the same light but I can always see the great player but argument. For Watts to overcome this issue another player needs to step up in the position ala Lucas which allows him to play a game suited to his best attributes. I think as long as the MFC needs a big forward Watts will be seen as the man and if he fails to play that role he will be criticized for playing the outside role or playing too far up the ground (rightly or wrongly).

I think that he gets some of that criticism at the moment and after watching him play U18 he has the attributes to be that lead out forward but also the skills to play as a tall midfielder. I'm not trying to be critical of Jack in an shape or form but I think this is why he will struggle to be considered a star....

then again he could have a break out season in 2012 win the brownlow and coleman and be rated in the top three for 2012 to 2017 but I think expectation and even team dynamics (ie playing him in the spot that best benefits the team not the players attributes) could issues with him being rated highly.

I don't disagree with that, but using the OP's definition of a 'star' as being top 5 in the league (Judd, Ablett, N Riewoldt etc) these guys just aren't it. I guess your definition is more liberal that Wolfmother's.

Even if Frawley is Fletcher / Scarlett good, he won't be a star as per WM's definition. IMO Morton and Grimes could be A-grade but not elite, even as midefielders. Much like Trengove they lack the physical attributes to be elite players. That's no knock on their ability as footballers, it's just they way it is. If you don't have burst pace and gut-running ability you cannot be an elite mid; and as a forward you need to have a midfielder's endurance and be exceptional overhead and convert at >65%. Therefore Scully's our best chance with Jurrah an outside chance (ultimately it'll probably be his lack of endurance that will probably stop him from reaching the top).

Watts hasn't taken a mark above his head in his career and has only been near about half-a-dozen marking contests in 20-odd games; that doesn't bode well for him reaching Riewoldt's level.

Several of the players you are casting judgement on have not played 50 games. Jurrah has never completed a full pre-season. Whilst Judd was a freak early, Ablett took several years to become 'elite'. Ditto Hodge. I think Jurrah will surprise you this year with how much of a weapon he is. Not just as an 'exciting' player, but as a genuine game winner.

Chalk up Watts , Jurrah and Scully as future Stars .

Once Watts fills out he will tear oppositions apart .

When Jurrah developes an engine , he will tear oppositions apart .

Once Scully sorts the radar with his kicking , he will tear oppositions apart .

Allowing for cameo's from the likes Grimes , Trengove , Jones and Sylvia thats alot of oppositions getting torn apart .

Liam Jurrah is the one player who stands head and shoulders above all others in terms of talent and athelticism, then Watts, Scully and Sylvia.

For some reason it seems to matter, don't know why it does but it does. I rate James Hird and would love Jack Watts to be seen at the end of his career in the same light but I can always see the great player but argument. For Watts to overcome this issue another player needs to step up in the position ala Lucas which allows him to play a game suited to his best attributes. I think as long as the MFC needs a big forward Watts will be seen as the man and if he fails to play that role he will be criticized for playing the outside role or playing too far up the ground (rightly or wrongly).

I think that he gets some of that criticism at the moment and after watching him play U18 he has the attributes to be that lead out forward but also the skills to play as a tall midfielder. I'm not trying to be critical of Jack in an shape or form but I think this is why he will struggle to be considered a star....

then again he could have a break out season in 2012 win the brownlow and coleman and be rated in the top three for 2012 to 2017 but I think expectation and even team dynamics (ie playing him in the spot that best benefits the team not the players attributes) could issues with him being rated highly.

Don't forget we have Lucas Cook now, the bloke is massive. They said at the AGM that the intention is for him and Watts to be dual key forward targets (paraphrasing). We also have Jurrah, Petterd, Bate and Dunn and assumedly the services of a resting ruckman.. I just don't think we will ever be at the point where everybody is looking at Watts as the key focus of the forwardline the way it happened with Neitz. As you say he could definitely play as a tall midfielder, we have seen glimpses of some brilliant agility, cleanliness below the knees, footwork etc it looks like basketball skills translated into footy, which is exactly what it is. He could become anything and I agree it is not likely to be a David Neitz type. I simply don't care though if anyone says 'yeah but he's not a KPP'. The same goes for Cale Morton, both of these players have the potential to play almost any position on the ground and I suspect Bailey will be chucking them all over the place in order to create headaches for the opposition and swing games our way

Three more sleeps til FOOTY

Liam Jurrah is the one player who physically stands head and shoulders above all others in terms of talent and athelticism, then Watts, Scully and Sylvia.

you mean figuratively. If he physically was head and shoulders above Watts he'd be about 230 cm tall.

Jurrah doesn't so much stand head and shoulders above others, as he occassionally stands on the head and shoulders of others.

Stars are rare things - if they weren't, they wouldn't be stars!

I just had a lot of fun doing a quick exercise, looking at premiership teams from the last decade and picking out non-star players to imagine our kids becoming. For instance I've got Jordie McKenzie earmarked as Jared Crouch. Would you complain?

But, for out and out stars, I've got three candidates;

Colin Sylvia has a combination of strength and acceleration that is rarely seen, as well as excellent skills all over, a fierce tackle, physical courage, remarkable leap, and a huge kick whether around the ground or at goal. Anyone who can keep up with his acceleration will be monstered by his strength. Could prove to be untaggable on the offensive, and his burst speed allows him to put defensive pressure on a wide radius in a pack. Bizarrely, he also has one of the AFL's highest hit-out-to-advantage rates, thanks to a cameo role in certain HF set plays.

Liam Jurrah defies neat description... gifted with incredible agility and leap, he also has a level of alertness and perception that puts him a half-step ahead of not just his direct opponent but the whole game around him. These attributes, combined with his constant awareness of teammate's positions, and skills in getting it to them consistently even amongst a zone or flood, could make him one of the most valuable players in the modern game.

Jack Watts could do for key position agility what Nick Reiwoldt did for stamina and Lance Franklin did for running power. A generally sound package as a 196cm forward, his short-distance speed and lateral movement is elite at any size. His current weaknesses in physical power and tendency to get caught will both be subsumed by his fundamental strengths - a balanced frame that will fill out without penalising his agility, and a sharp mind that will gain the full value of experience to shape smart leads, positioning, and playmaking vision. By 50 games he'll be a serious half-forward and key forward option, by 100 he could be a true matchwinner.