Red Bull are deliberately sandbagging him to Vettells advantage. you watch when vettells well clear of Mark, Marks car will become reliable and fast for the one/twos.

Vettell is their marketing 'child'.

Mark has no real future there.

What are you saying ?

That they're not giving him a car that is 100% ? Or giving him a slower car ?

Or when he is in no danger in taking vettels position, they flick a switch and the car becomes reliable all of a sudden ?

What tripe.

What are you saying ?

That they're not giving him a car that is 100% ? Or giving him a slower car ?

Or when he is in no danger in taking vettels position, they flick a switch and the car becomes reliable all of a sudden ?

What tripe.

All i do know is that Vettell is on about double the contract Mark is on.

I see it as during Qualifying Mark struggles with an under done package, be it KERS aerodynamics or tyres.

When has the Golden Boy had to fight through Race traffic??

That drive by Mark last sunday was one of the greatest of all time..The F1 Paddock will have watched that very closely...i would love to see Mark in a Red Prancing Horse.

i can't see him driving for the Bull in 2012.

Ferrari should shed Massa and put Webber with Alonso.

That said, Webber would never approve of being the number 2 to Fernando.

Alonso is about the best alround driver out there, and he and webber are great mates. great respect and fondness of one another.

What are you saying ?

That they're not giving him a car that is 100% ? Or giving him a slower car ?

Or when he is in no danger in taking vettels position, they flick a switch and the car becomes reliable all of a sudden ?

What tripe.

They started slowing him down late last season with about hmmn, 4 races to go. His car started mysteriously being off in the qualifying abnd less power in the races. This effectively guarenteed Vettell superiority and the championship. they always wanted Mark as there No 2 driver. Not there No1...

Vettell is their Aire apparent too take over the 'the Young gun' status of the F1,, stealing it from Hamilton. This is what they want and to dominate an ERA.

Mark is too old and square jawed for their Face of Red Bull, marketing image.

Thats why mark said last year, "Not bad for a No 2 Driver, Hey". He continually got the lesser bits last year and they even canobolised his car for vettells advantage.

When Mark and Vettell camre together as Vettell attampted to pass down the inside prior to the breaking area of a left hander vettell had left himself too quick and up against the left side of the track for a left hander,,, he drifted right only for them to hit wheels, taking Vettell off the circuit and for Mark to luckily make it to the line.

Red Bull blamed Mark for the accident, actually for not letting Vettell through, in not so many words. The gauntlet was thrown.

Obviosly nothing has changed except they don't want the same situation where their 2 drivers are both vying for the same title and fighting one another. So you sandbag your No 2, till the No 1 driver is clear, then free up your 2nd driver to play support and for constructors titles etc.

Sorry HT but playing favourites has been going on since Schu'ey's hey day.

i do agree with you DL that Webber is the true number 2 driver, as was Rubens & Eddie Irvine at Ferrari.

But do not Forget that Mark had a broken collarbone during those last 4 races that he kept fairly quiet, if not for that...he may have won the Championship!!

That said Sebastion is the chosen boy at Red Bull. No doubt

i do agree with you DL that Webber is the true number 2 driver, as was Rubens & Eddie Irvine at Ferrari.

But do not Forget that Mark had a broken collarbone during those last 4 races that he kept fairly quiet, if not for that...he may have won the Championship!!

That said Sebastion is the chosen boy at Red Bull. No doubt

I know he did, but the inner rebuking happened before he spun that wet race and hit the wall. It started the race or 2 before when he and Vettell collided when vettell tried to pass down the straight. After thaty there was infighting and Red Bull surprisingly through the owner I think, at one stage came out and blamed Webber. Then they did a backflip publicly a few days later.

After that things started to change slowly re the competativeness of the 2 cars till finally Webber was just slower in Qualifying and in races.

I know he did, but the inner rebuking happened before he spun that wet race and hit the wall. It started the race or 2 before when he and Vettell collided when vettell tried to pass down the straight. After thaty there was infighting and Red Bull surprisingly through the owner I think, at one stage came out and blamed Webber. Then they did a backflip publicly a few days later.

After that things started to change slowly re the competativeness of the 2 cars till finally Webber was just slower in Qualifying and in races.

Yes that "Coming Together" on the straight las year was outrageous! Pity Mark could not have had his contract paid out & left on the spot!! All power to him for continuing. I would find it very difficult.

But when you are paid Big Bucks the Team does rule in F1

Ferrari should shed Massa and put Webber with Alonso.

That said, Webber would never approve of being the number 2 to Fernando.

Striker. I'm gonna make a prediction for F1 next yaer.... I've got the feeling that Schumaker may go to Red Bull to teach Vettell all he's got,,, and to 'Finish' his career in a strong Car/organisation.

IMO, Webber could well replace a Disappointing Massa, who hasn't seemed to be able to recover since the accident. Alonso/Webber - Ferrari.

I also wonder about Buttons future @ McLaren.

Red Bull didn't like mark almost Upsetting their plans developing the young Vettell into a star.... Webberr almost dashed them..>

Takeing No chances this Year, their going to scuttle his season early,,, so he can't catch up to the Young upstart. But will be there if the Kid gets injured. Webber will get the good bits if Vettell has an accident and is hurt.

Keep the gap 'Mark, keep the gap. Don't harass poor vettell!

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/motorsport/mark-webber-ignores-team-orders-as-he-claims-british-grand-prix-podium-place-20110711-1h9co.html

Keep the gap 'Mark, keep the gap. Don't harass poor vettell!

I hope Mark Webber defies Team orders for the rest of 2011.

Is he employed to be Vettel's lacky?? I think not.

F@#$% you Red Bull.

I hope Mark Webber defies Team orders for the rest of 2011.

Is he employed to be Vettel's lacky?? I think not.

F@#$% you Red Bull.

I really hope he leaves Red Bull & goes with either Alonso or to McLaren or something

I really hope he leaves Red Bull & goes with either Alonso or to McLaren or something

He's signed...

He's signed...

Yesi know, i was genuinely suprised at that....But maybe the opposition are way off the pace....2nd is always better than 3rd.

I wish he could get the bloody car off the start line!!!

Yesi know, i was genuinely suprised at that....But maybe the opposition are way off the pace....2nd is always better than 3rd.

I wish he could get the bloody car off the start line!!!

I don't know why he struggles with this. Always hits the antistall...

He's signed...

Yep. He mustn't have received any real opportunities elsewhere, he's accepted he's 2nd Fiddle.

Maybe next Year.

Yesi know, i was genuinely suprised at that....But maybe the opposition are way off the pace....2nd is always better than 3rd.

I wish he could get the bloody car off the start line!!!

There's really only red Bullsh, Ferrari, Mclaren... You can never right off Renault when their racing. Where's Williams gone.

There's really only red Bullsh, Ferrari, Mclaren... You can never right off Renault when their racing. Where's Williams gone.

Williams has run out of budget i would suspect...Frank was such a surly Bugger!!!!

i do agree with you DL that Webber is the true number 2 driver, as was Rubens & Eddie Irvine at Ferrari.

But do not Forget that Mark had a broken collarbone during those last 4 races that he kept fairly quiet, if not for that...he may have won the Championship!!

That said Sebastion is the chosen boy at Red Bull. No doubt

Sebastian Vettel seeking a one-two finish for Red Bull

Sebastian Vettel has hinted he will let Mark Weber pass him at the Indian Grand Prix.

FORMULA One champion Sebastian Vettel yesterday hinted he will let Mark Webber pass him at the Indian Grand Prix as he would "love" to see him finish the season second.

Vettel, whose second consecutive drivers' title was followed a week later by Red Bull's constructors' crown, said "scenarios" could come into play tomorrow as F1's dominant team chases a clean sweep of honours.

A one-two season finish for Red Bull would add the coup de grace to their superlative season in which Vettel has won 10 out of 16 races and started from pole position 12 times.

"We've seen this year, in particular, races are long and a lot of things can happen in the beginning but also the end - overtaking is definitely possible," Vettel said.

"So the race order may not be clear, five or 10 laps to the end. I would love to see Mark finishing second. For sure, it depends where you are. So we worry first of all to make sure we're in a strong position and then I think the scenario situation comes last.

"I think that's also the easiest one to manage in that case."

If Vettel does let Webber overtake, it would constitute a role reversal for the Australian, who has long chafed at team orders forcing him to play a support role to his teammate.

Webber was always going to win that race, as long as it had no mechanical problems. More points for the manufacturer's championship.

Alan Jones says Red Bull's garage is split between Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel

FORMER F1 world champion Alan Jones says only a lightning quick start to the 2012 season can save Mark Webber from playing second fiddle again within the Red Bull garage.

Jones, the 1980 Formula One world champion, said it was clear there was tension between Webber and 2011 champion Sebastian Vettel and that their testy relationship would again threaten to spill over this year.

"You've got to beat your teammate before you beat anybody. There's always going to be a little bit of tension between teammates," Jones said just a week out from the season-opening Australian Grand Prix

"It's a very tense game that we're in and (there are) egos that you can't jump over."

"It's always a good breeding ground for aggro."

The Aussie ex-ace said it was clear Red Bull's garage was divided.

"Vettel's got his engineers and his side of the garage, and Mark's got his," Jones said.

"I don't think there's too much sharing of telemetry and knowledge."

http://www.heraldsun...e-1226291955545

Alan Jones says Red Bull's garage is split between Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel

FORMER F1 world champion Alan Jones says only a lightning quick start to the 2012 season can save Mark Webber from playing second fiddle again within the Red Bull garage.

Jones, the 1980 Formula One world champion, said it was clear there was tension between Webber and 2011 champion Sebastian Vettel and that their testy relationship would again threaten to spill over this year.

"You've got to beat your teammate before you beat anybody. There's always going to be a little bit of tension between teammates," Jones said just a week out from the season-opening Australian Grand Prix

"It's a very tense game that we're in and (there are) egos that you can't jump over."

"It's always a good breeding ground for aggro."

The Aussie ex-ace said it was clear Red Bull's garage was divided.

"Vettel's got his engineers and his side of the garage, and Mark's got his," Jones said.

"I don't think there's too much sharing of telemetry and knowledge."

http://www.heraldsun...e-1226291955545

It's being rumored yesterday that Mark Webber has signed a 'Pre Agreement' with Ferrari.

#Edit: I'v just seen this article, >

FORMULA One star Mark Webber has firmed as a potential replacement for the struggling Felipe Massa at Ferrari in 2013.

Webber, who has floated on and off Ferrari's radar over the years, will replace Massa in a one-year deal, according to a Spanish report.

The winner of seven Grand Prix races, Webber is out of contract at Red Bull next year, but wants to remain in a competitive team.

Red Bull is keen to promote either Webber's Australian compatriot Daniel Ricciardo or Torro Rosso teammate Jean-Eric Vergne.

The young guns are in a shoot-out for Webber's seat but Red Bull could face a dilemma if the veteran outpoints world champion Sebastian Vettel through the season.

Rumours about Massa's departure from Ferrari have been persistent over the past 18 months and Webber has entered the picture, according to Spain's El Confidencial, because of his ''great relationship'' with their lead driver Fernando Alonso.

In the long term, it is widely believed Ferrari will sign young Mexican sensation Sergio Perez, who has performed brilliantly for the Ferrari-engined Sauber team this year.

But it is understood they want Perez to have at least another year's experience before stepping up, increasing the chances of Webber being signed as a stop-gap driver.

http://www.heraldsun...6-1226344103337

Webber wins British GP.

http://m.theage.com.au/sport/motorsport/webber-wins-british-gp-20120708-21pv3.html

Nine wins for career.

Webber certain of Red Bull's backing

MARK Webber has no doubts that Red Bull Racing will back his bid for the formula one world championship, and not favour his title-holding teammate Sebastian Vettel.

Webber's victory in the British Grand Prix moved him closer to championship points leader Fernando Alonso and further ahead of Vettel, who is perceived as the team's preferred driver.

But unlike 2010, when Red Bull was seen to be backing Vettel, even though the Australian was leading the title chase, this time Webber has no sense of favouritism either way.

''They know that this year's championship is so open that we don't have the luxury of maybe just seeing how the season might unfold if you put the energy and the focus on one car,'' he said. ''This year it's open and the team realises that, and need to have both horses running well.''

After joining Ferrari's Alonso as the only drivers to have won two races so far this season, Webber is convinced he will be given every opportunity to win more races and fight for the championship.

''Yes, I believe that, for sure,'' he declared.

He is also adamant that his success at Silverstone will not have any influence on his impending decision about where he will drive next year amid speculation that he is in line to replace Felipe Massa at Ferrari next year. ''It doesn't change anything,'' he said. ''It's all about me performing well and enjoying my driving, and when that's happening, I'm getting the most out of my driving.

''I believe I can still race at a high level next year and I'll be in F1 next year, for sure.''

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/sport/motorsport/webber-certain-of-red-bulls-backing-20120709-21rra.html#ixzz20CadQoZD

Oh, NO. Mark, what have you done?

You've given up your chance to finish with Alonso, & Ferrari... you won't get back to Ferrari now, IMO.

Penalty for Webber

Hmmn, Nobbled Again???

MARK Webber was relegated from third spot to eighth on the grid for the formula one German Grand Prix after incurring a penalty for a gearbox change.

Red Bull star Webber, Mercedes' Nico Rosberg and Lotus' Romain Grosjean were all dropped five positions from their final qualifying results for making gearbox changes.

The winner of two races this season including the British Grand Prix last start, Webber was third fastest in qualifying for last night's race, behind only championship leader and fastest qualifier Fernando Alonso (Ferrari) and Red Bull teammate Sebastian Vettel.

Alonso managed a time of one minute and 40.621 seconds for the 4.574-kilometre Hockenheim course, to beat defending champion Vettel by 0.405 seconds.

Vettel, who managed to beat his teammate for the first time in qualifying on the track, said that he lost a lap as he ran into Webber towards the end.

''I think we had the pace to put the car on pole, but the conditions were very tricky. In many ways, driving in conditions like that make it like a lottery,'' he said.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/sport/motorsport/penalty-for-webber-20120722-22i8w.html#ixzz21giRpRbc

They really don't want Webber as the face of Red Bull.