Respect Ladder

[H_T 3,043]

Last year I posted on this site an interesting article (from the Age) written by G.Lyon about Colin Sylvia & Brock McLean. (Ref: Time to Deeliver). It outlined where they were at a defining moment in their footy careers. Since then it is fair to say Sylvia has made up much ground in his footy career, and at the very least, he may well be meeting the expectations that greeted his arrival at the club when picked up at No.3 in the ND, 2003 - by performing on a more consistent basis. Whilst Brock having moved to Carlton, has since struggled through form and/or not being on the park through injury.

Interesting to note (perhaps a useless stat) that Sylvia has just recently overtaken his fellow early draft pick Brock (former pick 5, 2003 ND), in the number of games played for the first time.

Sylvia - 102 games, 80 goals.

McLean - 100 games, 41 goals.

Interesting comparison I also noted for former No.#1 pick Marc Murphy drafted 2 years later in 2005 National Draft !: -

Murphy - 101 games, 81 goals.

Anyway, putting all that aside. Part of G.Lyon's article at the time, included the following:

Sylvia needs to be made aware of the "respect ladder" that exists in football. It is a ladder that, deservedly, is incredibly hard to climb, and any upward progress is hard-won and hard-earned. Moving up one rung is a result of countless selfless acts on and off the field of courage, unrelenting hard work, sacrifice, the willingness to put others first and the unflinching desire to put team ahead of the individual.

The slide down the respect ladder is a much easier process. One selfish act, one step outside the team rules, an unwillingness to "go" in a game when it's your turn or a refusal to commit to the hard work demanded by the modern game results not in a drop of one rung, but a slide of many.

Sylvia's career to date would put him at the bottom half of that ladder. There have been times, such as Sunday's game against the Hawks, when he is heading in the right direction, but there have been more occasions that have had him heading south.

Hopefully, he finally understands the importance for his career and for the success of his football club that his climb to the top is steady, uninterrupted and sustainable. His ability as a footballer has never been questioned, but his value to the side will be, unless he discovers the consistency of effort to match his undisputed talent.

The value of the No. 3 and No. 5 picks of the '03 draft will be decided in the coming years. They will soon be surrounded by players who will have similar expectations thrust upon them.

For Melbourne supporters' sake, let's hope they lead the way.

Like most I think would recognise, much has transpired the last two seasons for Sylvia. He now seems to understand the importance of his value to the side and seems to have discovered the consistency of effort required as Garry alluded to. Despite being unavailable at times earlier this season due to injury/problems.

However, it's not all about Sylvia this thread. It's about the team as a whole that I want to focus on in terms of the "Respect Ladder".

If Sylvia has climbed the respect ladder by a few rungs (he has in my book), who else within the team has improved considerably or steadily in your eyes ?

On the flip side, who has dropped some rungs on the respect ladder from the team over season 2010 ?

Just for interests sake, who is at the top of your respect ladder on/off the field at the club ?

To be more definitive, here are mine in the following categories : -

Top of Respect Ladder: - On field: Jamar

Top of Respect Ladder: - Off field: Foundation Members & to those many whom donated to DD.

Biggest improver(s) RL: Sylvia & Dunn

Slider RL: Bate

[titan_uranus 24,975]

Top of Respect Ladder: - On field: Jamar

Top of Respect Ladder: - Off field: Foundation Members & to those many whom donated to DD.

Biggest improver(s) RL: Sylvia & Dunn

Slider RL: Bate

Sylvia no doubt would be the biggest improver. He introduced second efforts and a much better work-rate this year, which would earn him tonnes of respect.

As for sliders, Bate's the big one here I reckon. He just doesn't do enough when we don't have the ball and he doesn't tackle or chase hard enough. Newton would fall into this category too, but he probably never had a lot of respect to begin with so he can't be a slider.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Sylvia no doubt would be the biggest improver. He introduced second efforts and a much better work-rate this year, which would earn him tonnes of respect.

As for sliders, Bate's the big one here I reckon. He just doesn't do enough when we don't have the ball and he doesn't tackle or chase hard enough. Newton would fall into this category too, but he probably never had a lot of respect to begin with so he can't be a slider.

On what planet?

He may not be in Sylvia and Brock's class... but in his first three years people were saying he should have gone top 3... Then as recently as last year he had major media commentators saying he'd be in the top 50 players in the league.

Agree or disagree with them all you like. He IS rated in the footy community. The kid has a lot of runs on the board. He's played only 19 games less than Sylvia and kicked 3 more goals. He was recruited a year later, and has always been a KP player who usually take longer.

What is it with dees supporters jumping on players backs? And players who've shown a bit. More than a bit.

[Dr. Mubutu 831]

To be more definitive, here are mine in the following categories : -

Top of Respect Ladder: - On field: Jamar

Top of Respect Ladder: - Off field: Foundation Members & to those many whom donated to DD.

Biggest improver(s) RL: Sylvia & Dunn

Slider RL: Bate

On Field: Junior. By some distance. Other than him, would agree Jamar, and also nominate Jones & Moloney (for all their flaws).

Off Field: Cam Schwab & Jimmy - bringing passion back to the MFC, and increasing transparency in the Club's business side.

Biggest Improvers: Watts, Dunn, McKenzie

Sliders: Martin (only because he wasn't sighted. Can't comment much more than that.), Bate

[rpfc 28,263]

Respect is different to performance.

I still respect Miller, I thought they did the right thing to delist him.

I respect Bate, but I know his performance in the second half of the year was below standard.

I respect Dunn, but I effing hate his Mo...

[H_T 3,043]

Respect is different to performance.

I still respect Miller, I thought they did the right thing to delist him.

I respect Bate, but I know his performance in the second half of the year was below standard.

I respect Dunn, but I effing hate his Mo...

Whilst they are technically different. They go hand-in-hand rp.

When the team/club lowered their colours back in 2001 having been in the 2000 GF the previous year, IIRC Neitz and co. in particular spruiked about regaining respect of the members, supporters, opposition clubs and the AFL in general. Tackling, pressure and their performance overall had to improve. They came out in Round 1 against the Hawks and spanked them. No one will forget the former skipper putting his body on the line and crunching Luke McCabe. That act not only typified great leadership, but it was about Melbourne's intent to some degree and the beginning of a statement from the Captain himself about regaining respect of the competition. From having lost much respect in 2001 from poor performances.

I respect Bate or anyone for that matter who make the grade at AFL level. But when you know what they are capable of - having seen them "perform" at a certain level - and don't get near that same level of performance for a period of time. It erodes some respect to a certain degree, and you question the aspects of their game, when you know they can do better. By Bate lifting those KPI's of his game (making tackles stick, chasing, holding marks, 1%'s, less clangers), would certainly regain respect from the supporters at least. In essence it would be lifting his performance also. Don't you think ?

[rpfc 28,263]

Whilst they are technically different. They go hand-in-hand rp.

When the team/club lowered their colours back in 2001 having been in the 2000 GF the previous year, IIRC Neitz and co. in particular spruiked about regaining respect of the members, supporters, opposition clubs and the AFL in general. Tackling, pressure and their performance overall had to improve. They came out in Round 1 against the Hawks and spanked them. No one will forget the former skipper putting his body on the line and crunching Luke McCabe. That act not only typified great leadership, but it was about Melbourne's intent to some degree and the beginning of a statement from the Captain himself about regaining respect of the competition. From having lost much respect in 2001 from poor performances.

I respect Bate or anyone for that matter who make the grade at AFL level. But when you know what they are capable of - having seen them "perform" at a certain level - and don't get near that same level of performance for a period of time. It erodes some respect to a certain degree, and you question the aspects of their game, when you know they can do better. By Bate lifting those KPI's of his game (making tackles stick, chasing, holding marks, 1%'s, less clangers), would certainly regain respect from the supporters at least. In essence it would be lifting his performance also. Don't you think ?

I really don't. My assessment of Bate as a footballer going forward for a flag tilt took a hit in the second half of this year, but when you see him bust his guts when he plays well or plays poorly, and when you see him give everything down at Casey - my repsect for him went up another notch.

Teams lose respect with bad performances, and effort probably isn't enough to gain it back.

But for players - all I need to see is when they come off for a rest - they are spent and blowing hard.

Bate at times looks slow, and clumsy, and can make poor decisions. But he doesn't lose my respect.

Players lose respect, as you say, by not chasing, poor body language, shirking contests, overlooking teammates, etc. (not skill errors)

I would be really disappointed if a poster came on here and said they respected Bate less after this year.

[H_T 3,043]

Players lose respect, as you say, by not chasing, poor body language, shirking contests, overlooking teammates, etc. (not skill errors)

I would be really disappointed if a poster came on here and said they respected Bate less after this year.

As I mentioned...chasing. And as you say players lose respect. This is my own little KPI and if I see a lack there-of, of chasing whether they are blowing or not they may drop a rung or two on my ladder. They go up a rung or two when times are tough and they chase regardless of fatigue or when it suits.

I've seen him play at Casey and I have also liked what I have seen. I've seen him working hard and putting pressure on when the ball leaves the forward line.

Fwiw, I think he is a required player, he registers goals and has a pretty consistent strike rate - I think - at scoring goals, not many do.

I'm also wondering why he went back to Casey. Perhaps this very reason ie. lack of work rate?

If I've disappointed you. *shrug*

[rpfc 28,263]

As I mentioned...chasing. And as you say players lose respect. This is my own little KPI and if I see a lack there-of, of chasing whether they are blowing or not they may drop a rung or two on my ladder. They go up a rung or two when times are tough and they chase regardless of fatigue or when it suits.

I've seen him play at Casey and I have also liked what I have seen. I've seen him working hard and putting pressure on when the ball leaves the forward line.

Fwiw, I think he is a required player, he registers goals and has a pretty consistent strike rate - I think - at scoring goals, not many do.

I'm also wondering why he went back to Casey. Perhaps this very reason ie. lack of work rate?

If I've disappointed you. *shrug*

Form was the reason he was dropped, not effort.

I have had those games, where you just seem lost out there and missing the right spots, missing marks, making poor decisions, etc.

If I lost respect because of that I would be ropable. I think you are using a very liberal definition of 'respect' - maybe you mean 'respect as a football player'?

Opinions of talent can diminish but, to get back to what prompted this thread, Colin Sylvia was in a respect vacuum not because of his performance or talent but because of his lack of application, his extracurricular activities, and his general attitude to his footy.