List improvements

[H_T 3,043]

One day gone in trade week and our Draft picks are now 1,2,11,18,34,50 & PSD# 1. Not sure if pick 50, or even 34 will be used for that matter, however the Mfc's intention is to improve draft pick positioning and Schwab did warn there is a bit more to go in trade week, after trading McLean to Carlton for a first round draft pick (Pick 11).

After Round 14, I posted a thread entitled "Comparitive Lists" which compared Melbourne, St.Kilda & Geelong's lists at the time. It just so happens those two sides which remained 1 & 2 all year played off in the GF. I used these sides to compare, because one club had bottomed out and obtained key 'high' Priority Picks, the other seemed to develop their list through good recruiting and utilising their picks, without really bottoming out. Both have also traded smartly, in particular Geelong with regard to Ottens after giving up Moloney.

For reference, this is the relevant thread I speak of: -

http://forums.demonland.com/index.php?show...t=0&start=0

Here is a portion of this thread I wish to now focus on: -

Melbourne's players and when they debuted: -

'97 - McDonald, Robertson

'98 - ----------------------------------

'99 - ----------------------------------

'00 - Bruce, Green, Wheatley,Whelan

'01 - ----------------------------------

'02 - Miller

'03 - Moloney, Rivers, Jamar

'04 - Bell, Davey, PJ, McLean, Sylvia

'05 - ----------------------------------

'06 - Bartram, Bate, Dunn, Jones, Warnock

'07 - Buckley, Frawley, Garland, Newton, Petterd, Meesen

'08 - Grimes, Maric, Martin, Morton, Wonaeamirri

'09 - Watts, Bennell, Jetta, Cheney, Jurrah

'10 - Blease, Strauss, Scully, Trengove, pick 11?, pick 18?, PSD#1

From 2006-2010 we will have had more than 27 players debuted. Since 2007, first round draft picks including Frawley, Grimes, Morton, Watts will have new additions in 2010 from the likes of Blease, Scully & Trengove as well as pick 11. May this form the backbone and great foundation for our club for many years to come.

Let us not forget, all this added to more than adequate players of experience and value in Davey, Sylvia, Moloney, Green, Warnock, Jones & Bate.

And of course the exciting Liam Jurrah, Austin Wonaeamirri.

Come to think of it, I haven't even mentioned Jamie Bennell, Neville Jetta, Colin Garland, Ricky Petterd, Jared Rivers, Cameron Bruce, Addam Maric or Stef Martin. Go figure. It's an exciting list to work with.

As you can see, the time line of debutants has a few holes in it from '98 to '02 and '05 there were none. The link will show St.K and Geelong's time line debutants were much different. One could say ND didn't offer alot for trying new kids. Some would say that is bullsh!t. '98-'02 there were reasons and there were penalties involved too. We were a side that was up and down and inconsistent from year to year. Look at St.Kilda this year they didn't have much in the way of any debutants this year, they played a settled side that was hell bent on winning every game. Injuries also play a part in terms of players used year to year. ie.Geelong.

What is observed is the four to five years of what appears to be consistent huge building blocks including this years draft intake of youngsters - quality youngsters I might add. That's a massive foundation for the club to build on what has already taken place the last two drafts. The list improvement will come from quality star midfielders and more than likely another key forward taken with at least one of our first 4 early picks come Nov 26.

Edited October 6, 2009 by High Tower

[John Dee 445]

08 Valenti

09 Bail, McKenzie, Spencer

[praha 11,232]

Didn't Rivers debut in 04?

[H_T 3,043]

Didn't Rivers debut in 04?

2003. Played 3 games. Picked up #26 in National Draft, 2002. Interestingly has just 1 Brownlow vote to his name. That came in 2004 during his Rising Star stint.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-melb...s--jared-rivers

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

You've always had a good eye for stats there HT.

I'm actually very fascinated by what will happen during the GC years. It's all doom and gloom as everyone knows, but I think it'll be a fascinating and exciting time, especially for a club that won't need to go on any massive recruiting drives during that period.

In the coming 3-6 years we can afford to be VERY selective in what we do in trade week, along with draft week. We won't be as desperate, or pressured. In fact, holding on to players will probably take up 90% of the headlines for us.

What I think we have to conscious of is that of the names you mention that have debuted in the last 3 years, not all will make it. On average you'd have to say only half of them will. If we're lucky, maybe 75% will. In any case, some names will leave, some will drop off, some will persevere without starring. We have literally NO idea what shape the list will take in the coming years.

What I'm looking forward to is seeing what we do with fringe players in the near future. What we when it comes to the GC kids, some of whom you'd think may want to return home. We may even feel the need to trade for a pick or two from GC or GWS.

My point is, the job isn't even half done yet. Exciting times.

[H_T 3,043]

What I think we have to conscious of is that of the names you mention that have debuted in the last 3 years, not all will make it. On average you'd have to say only half of them will. If we're lucky, maybe 75% will. In any case, some names will leave, some will drop off, some will persevere without starring. We have literally NO idea what shape the list will take in the coming years.

What I'm looking forward to is seeing what we do with fringe players in the near future. What we when it comes to the GC kids, some of whom you'd think may want to return home. We may even feel the need to trade for a pick or two from GC or GWS.

My point is, the job isn't even half done yet. Exciting times.

Yeah, I agree with your point that in the last 3 years of drafting, not all will make it. But that's the way things turn out with recruiting. However, I think there will be more hits than misses. Hopefully we're around your latter stat of 75% will make it. Which will make the GC & WS years a bit more bearable.

I think we might have something up our sleeve come next year's draft - only if required of course. If Mfc are searching for a pick from GC to 'top up'. See what happens.

Edited October 6, 2009 by High Tower

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Yeah. I'd like to see what posters on here would think (without it degenerating into a slagging match) about looking at the list in terms of which players WILL be the ones to survive into our future premiership threat.

I's clear there are a number of names that wouldn't be there if we had a team threatening for a flag. Some are stop-gaps, some are just there to teach, some are depth players who are doing a 22-round job.

There again, of your last 3 years' debutants (make that 5, including '06 and '10), which of those names are montys to still be there in 7 years and leading the club? I realise of course it's early days, but going on a glass-half-empty diagnosis, I count less than half at this stage.

[H_T 3,043]

Yeah. I'd like to see what posters on here would think (without it degenerating into a slagging match) about looking at the list in terms of which players WILL be the ones to survive into our future premiership threat.

It's clear there are a number of names that wouldn't be there if we had a team threatening for a flag. Some are stop-gaps, some are just there to teach, some are depth players who are doing a 22-round job.

There again, of your last 3 years' debutants (make that 5, including '06 and '10), which of those names are montys to still be there in 7 years and leading the club? I realise of course it's early days, but going on a glass-half-empty diagnosis, I count less than half at this stage.

Okay, names that I think that will survive and will be there in 7 years time leading the club....(obviously can't confirm it):

'06 - Bate, Jones.

'07 - Frawley, Garland

'08 - Grimes, Morton, Wonaeamirri

'09 - Watts, Bennell, Jetta, Jurrah.

'10 - Blease, Scully, Trengove.

That makes 14.

I think Davey & Sylvia are the ones prior to 2006 that will still be there, even though you did ask from those recruited from 2006-2010 period. that makes 16.

Maybe still be at club in 7 years time (Ie. Unsure, but hopeful!): -

Petterd, Maric, Strauss, Spencer, Martin, Warnock, pick 11 (2009), pick 18 (2009).

That makes = 24.

edit: For those who have just come in on the thread and are confused about the above timeline - it represents what year they have or will have debuted.

Edited October 6, 2009 by High Tower

[titan_uranus 24,970]

I've bolded those who I think will still be at the club in 7 years time

'06 - Bartram, Bate, Dunn, Jones, Warnock

'07 - Buckley, Frawley, Garland, Newton, Petterd, Meesen

'08 - Grimes, Maric, Martin, Morton, Wonaeamirri Valenti

'09 - Watts, Bennell, Jetta, Cheney, Jurrah Bail McNamara

'10 - Blease, Scully, Strauss, Trengove

Add Davey, Sylvia, and possibly Rivers to that list, and you get 18.

Martin I'm still unsure about. Maric I have massive doubts over. Dunn and Newton ought to be gone this year, but due to luck, get another year. Need to see a lot more of Meesen.

Jones, Bartram, Cheney, Valenti, Bail, McNamara and Buckley I don't think will make the final cut.

Edited October 7, 2009 by titan_uranus

[H_T 3,043]

I've bolded those who I think will still be at the club in 7 years time

'06 - Bartram, Bate, Dunn, Jones, Warnock

Pretty similar to mine, I had Jones in. Do you think he will be off-loaded sometime?

[titan_uranus 24,970]

Pretty similar to mine, I had Jones in. Do you think he will be off-loaded sometime?

Jones might be squeezed out of the midfield over the coming years. I mean, we'll have Scully, Trengove, Blease, Grimes, Strauss, Davey, possibly Moloney too, and also other draftees over the next few years. Jones at the moment struggles to convince me he's in our best 22, so I can't see him being around 7 years from now (which is a hell of a long time).

[H_T 3,043]

Jones might be squeezed out of the midfield over the coming years. I mean, we'll have Scully, Trengove, Blease, Grimes, Strauss, Davey, possibly Moloney too, and also other draftees over the next few years. Jones at the moment struggles to convince me he's in our best 22, so I can't see him being around 7 years from now (which is a hell of a long time).

That is fair enough. With drafting and trading, changes can be made for list improvement.

[dee-tox 4,835]

Pretty similar to mine, I had Jones in. Do you think he will be off-loaded sometime?

Matty Warnock is 26 next year believe it or not!

[H_T 3,043]

Matty Warnock is 26 next year believe it or not!

And your point ?