Guys, I watched John Butcher playing today in the West Gippsland Latrobe seniors Grand Final.

As most of the papers have stated John is a great mark but his kicking is a very big worry. Today, he had 14 disposals for 9 kicks 5 handballs, 7 marks and finished with 1.5 and one out on the full. He is a tall kid who needs to improve big time to be able to take a game by the balls, even if it is a game of country football.

My point is that he is a DUD X 1000 and we will not be taking him after bumping into one Barry Pendergast in the pisser after his comments.

The final result was a win to Maffra 7.27.69 to Traralgon's 9.12. 66.

An absouloute gem of a game, apart from Butcher, who butchered the ball.

Ps.... sorry for any e typos as i am smached@!!!! hahahaha

IlovE MFC

It's clear that he will not be our second pick and thank god. All the Butcher fans have gone back into the cupboard. The last thing we need is another [censored] kick for goal nd Butcher is one of those. You can only improve a players kick by 10-15%

smashed you are , but great to hear some news, thanks WH

  Mr Morton said:

You can only improve a players kick by 10-15%

And where did that gem of a stat come from?

Bad call.

  stevethemanjordan said:

And where did that gem of a stat come from?

Bad call.

Agreed. That just seems a little silly.

  WattsHappening? said:

Guys, I watched John Butcher playing today in the West Gippsland Latrobe seniors Grand Final.

Is he worth a pick 18 chance or will it be Miller and Newton again?

I remember a few years ago James Sellar went from being a possible #2 pick as the receiver of Gibbs' hard work, to nearly getting bundled out of the first round. Then the other day I'm watching him get his head smashed in, in an elimination final. He was hit hard enough that he didn't know where he was, mouth dripping blood. Then he returned to the ground and ended up taking a strong mark and kicking a goal. I was impressed.

I don't think that'll happen here, though. Firstly, even Sellar didn't slide out of the first round. Secondly, in this skinny draft many of the regular recruiters and draft-writers think the quality only goes as far as 6-8, then drops off. Even if he went outside that first half of the first round, I doubt he'd get as far as 18, especially considering there's not much to enthuse about many of the other talls on offer.

  stevethemanjordan said:

And where did that gem of a stat come from?

Bad call.

i have heard something similar, it takes a couple of hundred hours to correct someones kicking technique if they get to AFL level and have formed bad habbits. laugh if you will, but Richo , Mooney , Riewoldt and our own Miller and Newton are living proof

  Al`s DEMONS said:

i have heard something similar, it takes a couple of hundred hours to correct someones kicking technique if they get to AFL level and have formed bad habbits. laugh if you will, but Richo , Mooney , Riewoldt and our own Miller and Newton are living proof

They are proof only that they themselves are bad or inconsistent kicks. Nothing more.

Plenty of players have improved their kicking skills throughout the course of their career.

And only being able to improve a player's kick by 15% is just a quote that now some want to purport as fact to serve their argument

  WattsHappening? said:

Guys, I watched John Butcher playing today in the West Gippsland Latrobe seniors Grand Final.

As most of the papers have stated John is a great mark but his kicking is a very big worry. Today, he had 14 disposals for 9 kicks 5 handballs, 7 marks and finished with 1.5 and one out on the full. He is a tall kid who needs to improve big time to be able to take a game by the balls, even if it is a game of country football.

My point is that he is a DUD X 1000 and we will not be taking him after bumping into one Barry Pendergast in the pisser after his comments.

The final result was a win to Maffra 7.27.69 to Traralgon's 9.12. 66.

An absouloute gem of a game, apart from Butcher, who butchered the ball.

Ps.... sorry for any e typos as i am smached@!!!! hahahaha

IlovE MFC

Hi all first post here have been reading and following for a while now.... I too was at the game i am a traralgon lad but had a special interest in watching John Butcher like all other melbourne fans i am very interested in who will be our number #2 pick in the upcoming draft as i believe this is our most important year of drafting IMO.. Anyway I totaly agree melbourne won't and should not draft this kid at pick #2 he cannot kick.... but i must admit i thought his work rate was pretty good and seems to read the play well. I think there may be an oppurtunity there at pick #18 if he slides which he should. But that will depend if the FD beleive he's kicking can be improved and the draft camp should detirmine this. Anyway i am sold on trengrove @ number #2 and been since the under 18's carnival.

  Daz said:

Hi all first post here have been reading and following for a while now.... I too was at the game i am a traralgon lad but had a special interest in watching John Butcher like all other melbourne fans i am very interested in who will be our number #2 pick in the upcoming draft as i believe this is our most important year of drafting IMO.. Anyway I totaly agree melbourne won't and should not draft this kid at pick #2 he cannot kick.... but i must admit i thought his work rate was pretty good and seems to read the play well. I think there may be an oppurtunity there at pick #18 if he slides which he should. But that will depend if the FD beleive he's kicking can be improved and the draft camp should detirmine this. Anyway i am sold on trengrove @ number #2 and been since the under 18's carnival.

welcome to the foray Is always interesting to get local insight etc. Ive long ( well last few months ) suspected that Butcher struggles from too far out both in terms of ability to kick and just common footbal brains as to what to do with it on many occasions.

Now kicking CAN be imnproved and to some degree disposals can be honed if the basic footy intel is there to be moulded but all this then says to me hes far more of a work-project than first considered. I8 at best.. definitely not #2

cheers Daz

  Enforcer25 said:

They are proof only that they themselves are bad or inconsistent kicks. Nothing more.

Plenty of players have improved their kicking skills throughout the course of their career.

And only being able to improve a player's kick by 15% is just a quote that now some want to purport as fact to serve their argument

but this is the point, Roo and Richo are labelled superstars of our game. football is their fulltime job yet cant improve . why not. is it a mental thing ? my mate who coaches junior footy local and rep told me about the amount of hours correcting a faulty technique. Dunstall spoke about trying to help buddy. He did what the chief said for a couple of days then went back to his own style. sometimes you get 9 goals 1 but others you get 1 goal 9 from buddy. I think it is harder than some might think.

Guys we won't be taking Butcher.

Scully is a lock for #1

Whilst #2 will be used on a another midfielder. Who that is remains contentious at this stage.

  stevethemanjordan said:

And where did that gem of a stat come from?

Bad call.

It's a fact. The kicking coaches have said it on many occasions. Kicking is such an important part of football and if it was so easy change then why don't players improve their kicking drastically? If a player has 65-70% kicking efficiency (like most in the AFL) your saying that some of these players can improve their kicking to 85%+ for the entire year? You might want to learn something about body physics, you have no idea.

Like I said 10-15% is all the players improve.

7.27......geez that's inaccurate

For the record they won after the siren.....

  Stop: Jurrahtime said:

7.27......geez that's inaccurate

That's exactly what Essendon scored against our 10.9 in the 1948 Grand Final draw.

We flogged them in the replay!

  rumpole said:

That's exactly what Essendon scored against our 10.9 in the 1948 Grand Final draw.

We flogged them in the replay!

Aha, I knew i'd heard that score before, somewhere!!!

  Mr Morton said:

It's clear that he will not be our second pick and thank god. All the Butcher fans have gone back into the cupboard. The last thing we need is another [censored] kick for goal nd Butcher is one of those. You can only improve a players kick by 10-15%

Being a big lad i think the scope for improvement in his kicking would be more then that of a small midfielder. Once he fills out, gets used to his size, and joins an afl system with professionals teaching him how to kick you would think there would be more then 10-15% improvement in him. I know myself that i went from a shocking kick an an uncoordinated 15-17 yr old, to a very good kick now as a 19 yr old once i got used to my body size.

[cough] [/cough]

Glad ppl are starting to come around and see that Butcher may be still on the board at pick 18... & we'll still have better options.

Pick 2..? Pffft.

  Darth Vardy said:

Being a big lad i think the scope for improvement in his kicking would be more then that of a small midfielder. Once he fills out, gets used to his size, and joins an afl system with professionals teaching him how to kick you would think there would be more then 10-15% improvement in him. I know myself that i went from a shocking kick an an uncoordinated 15-17 yr old, to a very good kick now as a 19 yr old once i got used to my body size.

Your example is a little different as I am talking about 18-19 years, as we all know 15-17 years you would improve everything ten fold. I see your point how the kicking maybe a bit different and take longer to develop then the smaller players and agree to an extent. He has been big for quite some time and his kicking is defiantly so far behind that even if he does make a big improvement I would still say his kicking would be suspect. This is the risk that comes with Butcher, if he can in fact improve these parts to his game then he will be a very good player. His draft position will tell us a lot about his scope for improvement and if he is worth the risk. IMO he is not worthy of pick # 2 and I think he will slide outside the top 15.

Any player that manages to kick 1.11 in a game of football - seriously needs to have his kicking motion analysed and changed.

... aside maybe from Buddy Franklin.

Having said and read all of this if somehow slides to pic 18 id take him in a heart beat.

  Neita3000 said:

Guys we won't be taking Butcher.

Scully is a lock for #1

Whilst #2 will be used on a another midfielder. Who that is remains contentious at this stage.

Hoping for Scully & Trengove - like picking up Gibbs & Murphy in one hi t !

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Butcher will not go outside the top 10. He is a very good player, and you cannot deny that. We've been analysing him for so long now, that people are picking up the smallest flaws, which in other players would go unnoticed.

He is clearly the best KPF in this year's draft. If Panos or Griffiths were under the same scrutiny as Butcher on this forum, they would be deemed by some posters as a 4th round pick, at best.

Having said all that, I'm on the Trengove bandwagon, but I would still be very happy with Butcher, as he will become a top forward.