You are Joking!! Haha. Watch the St.Kilda Geelong game from earlier this year.

None of our list is ready for that pressure. Cam Bruce's kicks are way too eratic to be an automatic selection for any side.

Once again remove the Rose Coloured Glasses.

Your logic is the reason we have accepted mediocraty for close on 50 years.

That is utter rubbish.

We've got 10, 15, even 20 players who could get games for Geelong or StKilda. The difference is the majority of our players would be players 16-22.

We've got no one who would walk into other clubs and be top 5 players for that club. That is the reason why we are where we are.

Not because ALL our players are rubbish. It is because non of our players are top quality players. A lot of Robins but no Batman.

That's why we need the draft picks in 07, 08, 09. We need the top of the tree players.

Twisted logic that: we are at the bottom,so all our players are rubbish and because STKilda are on top, all their players are great.

That is utter rubbish.

We've got 10, 15, even 20 players who could get games for Geelong or StKilda. The difference is the majority of our players would be players 16-22.

We've got no one who would walk into other clubs and be top 5 players for that club. That is the reason why we are where we are.

Not because ALL our players are rubbish. It is because non of our players are top quality players. A lot of Robins but no Batman.

That's why we need the draft picks in 07, 08, 09. We need the top of the tree players.

Twisted logic that: we are at the bottom,so all our players are rubbish and because STKilda are on top, all their players are great.

Not once did i say our players were Rubbish. I said our players are not ready at this time to be untouchable. (Read my original Post)

Our Training Facilities are so far behind everybody else's at this moment. Our players are not where they should be.

Our whole Club is not mentally Tough enough at this time either.

It all Filters down.

Our list has heaps of potential, & with the new Training Facilities could certainly go all the way with a bit of luck.

But Right now we are nowhere near it.

Example: Shane Woewodin, a player we all loved, who gave his absolute all. Won a (lucky) Brownlow. Tried to be as fit as he could.

But in the 2 Grand Finals he played in 2000 & 2003 got completely outclassed when the Grail was up for Grabs.

When our list & club can overcome these psychological barriers then we start to talk about being untouchable.

Bailey i think can do this in time.

Since 1964 Robert Flower has been the only untouchable. I could list about 20 just behind him since then, but Robbie was the only walk up.

13 Victorian Jumpers he wore.

And yet Steven Armstrong, Matthew Bishop and Darren Jolly were able to overcome the below standard conditions of our training facilities to win a Premiership.

Sorry Jaded, I meant to respond to WYL's post about fitting into a Geelong or St Kilda, not to the untouchable idea.

And yet Steven Armstrong, Matthew Bishop and Darren Jolly were able to overcome the below standard conditions of our training facilities to win a Premiership.

Yes they did, But they had to go somewhere else to do it sadly.

Exactly my point, & exactly why we all need to toughen up.

I know i am being Hard, but we just have to get back to that ruthless standard of 50 years ago.

So Woewodin is irrelevant.

So Woewodin is irrelevant.

No he is not. You miss my point completely.

The Level of excellence expected from our Players by the MFC is not as high as some clubs in the AFL

Many People will not like to read that, but it's a Fact.

I have watched it & felt it Year after Year.

This Summer it must be addressed.

Round 18 2005 The MFC were top of the Ladder 14-4.

But alas we did not win another game & lost the first final.

That is my point.

you dont just win a lucky brownlow.

Round 18 2005 The MFC were top of the Ladder 14-4.

But alas we did not win another game & lost the first final.

That was round 18 2004, not 05.

I was telling everyone how we were finally the real deal and this was our year. Man, was i wrong.

That was round 18 2004, not 05.

I was telling everyone how we were finally the real deal and this was our year. Man, was i wrong.

Yeah, we all were, but look what those years under Daniher/Gardiner have done for us, seriously, we have all questioned whats goin' on with the club, & for me, I've looked hard & learnt a lot since & collectively we're pushing for Major & much needed change & professionalism at the club from ther top down.

We're witnessing a major rebirth IMO, but will take I reckon 5 years to get to top 2.

3 years to make the finals & at least another 2 to get to the top eschelon.

That was round 18 2004, not 05.

I was telling everyone how we were finally the real deal and this was our year. Man, was i wrong.

Yes correct, i meant 2004 that was a misprint from me, but i stand by what i say.

Until the club toughens up nobody is untouchable, except maybe liam Jurrah as he has the x factor.

What i am getting at is we have to set the bar higher at this club, otherwise we will be thought of like Richmond.

Since 1964 Robbie Flower is our only true untouchable.

On our current list we have some Great potential, but how Tough they will be is yet unknown.

I love the Demons but i am sick of over rating our list. We must get Hard & Tough regularly not just sporadically then fall away with excuses.

you dont just win a lucky brownlow.

You do in 2000, nobody picked that one. Not even us die hard Demon supporters.

Anyway 5 days later he was totally pants in the GF & thats what i remember....