Well, it's not obvious to me that the midfield is doing so well at the moment that nobody deserves to be dropped to give someone else a go. I can't see how the midfield could be worse with Valenti there.

If you're right about Bailey, then if he was treated better than Valenti & was given more chances than Valenti to prove himself, then Valenti should at least get the chances that he got. If he was himself treated just as badly as Valenti and wasn't given a fair chance to prove himself, then he should know better than to treat Valenti the same way.

My point is that it is neither fair nor intelligent list management to dump Valenti without giving him one last chance. If they intend to upgrade him anyway at the end of the year, well it doesn't matter, though it's a strange way to do it.

There's 10 rounds to go including tomorrow. There are a number of fringe players that we need to know more about before deciding whether they're still with us in 2010, with Valenti at the head of the queue. At it stands it's a gamble either way whether we keep them or delist them. Whether we win a few games or lose them all is of less consequence for the next few years than whether we start 2010 with the best list at our disposal. To do that, players like Valenti have to be given a string of games to show us what they can do.

When i first saw Valenti at VFL level i couldnt wait to see him at AFL level

Who would you dump for Valenti ?

Why is he still on the rookie list ?

Bailey of the games i saw him play had a good football brain , hard at the ball but his skillset was limited

What are they doing with Valenti? and why did they recruit him when really they were never gonna give him a chance? Bailey said he was going to play him but hasn't but he continues to play McLean and McDonald when they look like cripples out there, refusing to change the midfield that isn't working. The selection commitee has a lot to answer for how can they play Wheatley ahead of Cheney or any struggling youngster like Dunn, Bartram, Newton or even Bell surely we must see if they are part of our future. Wheatley is a list clogger plain and simple.

GOOD CALL !!!!!!

its a disgrace when bailey says perform or your out.

THIS KID HAS NOT BEEN GIVEN A CHANCE UNLIKE OTHERS..

for those who care to check his one and only game in round 8 against the WB he was given equal "9th" best melb.player with "miller" and 23 votes in the AFL scoring system.

DOES ANYBODY REMEMBER HOW MUCH GAME TIME HE WAS GIVEN ?? sweet fa.

taking those votes into consideration he had a better day than ''

WHELAN;BRUCE; PETTERD; JOHNSON; CHENEY; SYLVIA;BARTRAM;WARNOCK; MCDONALD;S.MARTIN;MARIC; FOR MELB..

AND; R.MURPHY; S,WELSH.RYAN GRIFFEN;EAGLETON; B.LAKE;MINSON;D.MORRIS; L.PICKEN.;M.HAHN AMONGST OTHERS...for the W.BULLDOGS.

his stats for the day bear mentioning;

11 disposals 2 marks .1 tackle.1 goal..

in the "champion data" footy fantasy score he recieved 44 pts.( $353 K APPROX. 10TH MOST EXPENSIVE PLAYER FOR MELB.)

pts not flash but. i.repeat.(how much game time did he get?)

off the interchange ..

we lost by 7 pts that day TO THE "WB".

he had more effective disp. than warnock, maric. bartram,miller.petterd .dunn.

other melb players champ.data pts for year.

MILLER 12 GAMES AV.49 PTS AV. 11 DISPOSALS.

JETTA 7 GAMES SEASON - AV.44 PTS.

BARTRAM 9 GAMES -AV. 47 PTS.

RIVERS 12 GAMES season av.58 PTS but his last 5 games av is 44pts....

MCDONALD LAST 3 GAMES- AV. 40 PTS.

BENNELL 11 GAMES- AV.46 PTS.

BELL 2 GAMES- AV. 37 PTS.

WATTS 3 GAMES.- AV. 26 PTS

JURRAH 2 GAMES- AV 47PTS

DUNN 6 GAMES - AV.52 PTS.

EVEN "NEWTON" HAD 2 GAMES AND AV.52 PTS -BETTER THAN MOST( who if he was able kick straight would be be in regularly)

what the " " does baily have against this kid who works his butt off. (something personal ??)

"VALENTI" IS AMONGST THE BEST FOR CASEY WEEK IN WEEK OUT.AND CONSIDERED TOO GOOD TO BE PLAYING VFL. BY COACH.

YOU CANT SAY THAT ABOUT SOME MELB. PLAYERS WHO GET DROPPED.& SOME TIMES STRUGGLE AT CASEY.

DO THE KID A FAVOUR !!! And give him a chance longer than half a game or give him away to another club.\

like "jolly" where is he at now? oh yes thats right considered to be in all australian form>!!!

"simmonds" ."thompson".( i know no choice there !) amongst others..

and let another club enjoy the best he's got to offer as per usual..

i see baily has resorted to begging his players for an effort now( desperate times)

wish bailey could get dropped to casey !!for his disappointing efforts.

When he got his chance ON THE BALL at AFL level what was your observation ?

Maybe we would find out if he was played as regularly as some of our other players. Or if the coaching staff showed as much faith in him as they do with other players.

Here's an interesting one. Let's imagine Valenti wasn't a rookie and he was actually picked up in the draft, whatever the pick. I think that would definitely change some people's opinions about him on this forum.

Let's use Morton for an example. Number 4 in the 07 draft was it? Has yet to show any signs as to why he was picked at number 4. I understand they are different players, with Morton being 2 years younger and having a body of a stick. But why is it that we show so much faith in Morton, even though he is yet to play an influential game? Because he was picked at number 4? Why is he not learning at Casey?

Why is there this perception that Valenti is too small, one dimensional, slow etc etc?

He hasn't ever been given a proper opportunity to play at the highest level. We throw players like Morton into the AFL with the big guys and watch his poor decision making, lack of hunger for contested situations and an inability to man the F*@& up when required, but we still play him every game even though his confidence levels rapidly decline every week. Everyone is patient and happy to wait for Morton to "blossom" into this "superstar". What if Morton was a rookie and we were playing him every week? Every single person that rates Morton would be wondering what the hell the coaching staff have been smoking.

Players mature and blossom at different times. Everyone is different. This is why so many gems come from the later part of the draft.

I have just as much faith in Valenti as I do in Morton. I probably have more to tell you the truth. The games I have watched Valenti play have been just as exciting as Morton's, Grimes, Bennell's, Jetta's, Jurrah's, Watts's and many more of our younger tyre players yet people are happy to wait for the "potential stardom" to come from these younger, more "high profile" players because of the draft system. I don't for one minute doubt that MOST of the players that are picked early rather than later get more gigs than those who are drafted later. And those who are drafted earlier may generally turn out to be better players than those that are drafted later. But it also has to do with how much opportunity players get and how much faith is shown in them

Having seen Valenti play as a junior, for Casey and for the Dee's, I can say that from my eyes he has a great kick, clean hands, is not SLOW, has great vision and loves the contested ball. One of the more important thing's he possesses that not many Melbourne players possess is 1 percenter's. He will bust his gut to put a block on, smother and make 2nd and 3rd efforts.

The only thing unfortunate about him I believe is something that will never change. His height. However, don't let this put you off because he makes up for it in all those other areas.

Valenti should be given a decent crack at AFL level. But if he hasn't had a consistent run before the years out and we end up delisting him, I hope another club picks him up and shows us how stupid we were for showing such little faith in Valenti.

Go Dees.

Maybe we would find out if he was played as regularly as some of our other players. Or if the coaching staff showed as much faith in him as they do with other players.

....

Valenti should be given a decent crack at AFL level. But if he hasn't had a consistent run before the years out and we end up delisting him, I hope another club picks him up and shows us how stupid we were for showing such little faith in Valenti.

Go Dees.

Great post STMJ. Hope you got a good sleep after that. Or r u in another time zone?

When he got his chance ON THE BALL at AFL level what was your observation ?

The next question is who do you drop for him ?

Bailey played MIDFIELD and knows exactly what skillset is required

Bailey in fact was Similar to Valenti

Are you talking about last year? cause he hasn't had a chance this year. I thought he was better than Jones.

I already named 4.

I think if Bailey knew what was required we wouldn't be last by 2 games and %.

The last comment is a massive slap in the face to Valenti surely no one is that bad.

Valenti is one of those players that is excellent at VFL level but is borderline at best at AFL level

He has had his chances and failed to impress

His future at MFC is grim IMO

Supporters have got to seperate their heart from their brains when making judgements on players

MFC will never win anything with players rated by most as borderline

Valenti has never had a string of games long enough to show what he can do

Maybe we would find out if he was played as regularly as some of our other players. Or if the coaching staff showed as much faith in him as they do with other players.

Here's an interesting one. Let's imagine Valenti wasn't a rookie and he was actually picked up in the draft, whatever the pick. I think that would definitely change some people's opinions about him on this forum.

Let's use Morton for an example. Number 4 in the 07 draft was it? Has yet to show any signs as to why he was picked at number 4. I understand they are different players, with Morton being 2 years younger and having a body of a stick. But why is it that we show so much faith in Morton, even though he is yet to play an influential game? Because he was picked at number 4? Why is he not learning at Casey?

Why is there this perception that Valenti is too small, one dimensional, slow etc etc?

He hasn't ever been given a proper opportunity to play at the highest level. We throw players like Morton into the AFL with the big guys and watch his poor decision making, lack of hunger for contested situations and an inability to man the F*@& up when required, but we still play him every game even though his confidence levels rapidly decline every week. Everyone is patient and happy to wait for Morton to "blossom" into this "superstar". What if Morton was a rookie and we were playing him every week? Every single person that rates Morton would be wondering what the hell the coaching staff have been smoking.

Players mature and blossom at different times. Everyone is different. This is why so many gems come from the later part of the draft.

I have just as much faith in Valenti as I do in Morton. I probably have more to tell you the truth. The games I have watched Valenti play have been just as exciting as Morton's, Grimes, Bennell's, Jetta's, Jurrah's, Watts's and many more of our younger tyre players yet people are happy to wait for the "potential stardom" to come from these younger, more "high profile" players because of the draft system. I don't for one minute doubt that MOST of the players that are picked early rather than later get more gigs than those who are drafted later. And those who are drafted earlier may generally turn out to be better players than those that are drafted later. But it also has to do with how much opportunity players get and how much faith is shown in them

Having seen Valenti play as a junior, for Casey and for the Dee's, I can say that from my eyes he has a great kick, clean hands, is not SLOW, has great vision and loves the contested ball. One of the more important thing's he possesses that not many Melbourne players possess is 1 percenter's. He will bust his gut to put a block on, smother and make 2nd and 3rd efforts.

The only thing unfortunate about him I believe is something that will never change. His height. However, don't let this put you off because he makes up for it in all those other areas.

Valenti should be given a decent crack at AFL level. But if he hasn't had a consistent run before the years out and we end up delisting him, I hope another club picks him up and shows us how stupid we were for showing such little faith in Valenti.

Go Dees.

That post was brilliant in that it perfectly demonstrated how disconnected you are from reality.

Nothing more.

Anyone who says that Velnti has had a chance to prove himself has no clue. Let's compare the first seasons of McLean, Jones and Valenti (similar type players).

I don't have the time now to go through all of the stats at the moment as I am overseas, however here is just a quick overview.

In McLean's first season he played nine games and averaged just under nine touches per game.

In Jones' first season he played eight games and averaged just under 14 touches per game.

In Valenti's first season he played nine games and averaged around 17 touches per game.

From the 2008 season:

Valenti: 9 games, 67% game time, 17 disposals per game, 76.01% efficiency, 5.2 contested possessions per game (30.5% of possessions are contested).

Jones: 20 games, 80% game time, 20.65 disposals per games, 69.48% efficiency, 5.57 contested possessions per game (26.9% of possessions are contested).

McDonald: 18 games, 79% game time, 20.22 disposals per game, 78.73 % efficiency, 6.05 contested possessions per game.

McLean: 14 games, 80 % game time, 23.64 disposals per game, 74.19% efficiency, 7.2 contested possessions per game.

Bruce: 21 games, 85% game time, 23.9 disposals per game, 75.41% efficiency, 6.4 contested possessions per game.

Yes, Valenti was a couple of years older when he debuted, but no means so old that he has already peaked and there is by far plenty of room for improvement. He is a classy footballer with a sahrp brain, quick hands and is a lovely kick (despite the "he bleeds red and blue" and "Ryan O'Keefe type player" Chinese Whispers that spread around here).

If ever there was a player that showed promise from little opporutnity it is Valenti. He must get more games this season and deservedly so.

That post was brilliant in that it perfectly demonstrated how disconnected you are from reality.

Nothing more.

I must be missing something Enforcer. How is it that I am disconnected from reality?

Because I simply believe that Valenti hasn't been given a real go at proving himself at AFL level?

Great post STMJ. Hope you got a good sleep after that. Or r u in another time zone?

In the UK mate. B)

Off to the Greek Isles tomorrow though so won't be posting for a while !