I thought they cost us the game today.

I think we underestimate the importance of this facet of the game.

I think we need to use some creative thinking on this point. This year's the ideal opportunity to try some innovations. Sides with a chance of making the finals don't have this luxury.

20m. kicks to the back pocket are not innovative.....or effective(but better than Rivo's short pass to an opponent 25m. out, straight in front.)

Am I insanely obsessed with this failing in our tactics?

Bartram should never kick in from full back and why we continually let him have the ball in tense situations is beyond me.

I would consider the positional play of the opposition as your pre requisite on how you make your decision

Part of the problem is the player doing the leading

IMO when Strauss who is yet to debut consolidates his position on the half back flank he would be ideal at the kick in role

Definite problems, but also continuing success. I've been watching scores from kickins - Saturday MFC 3.0, WB 0.0

" scores from kickins - Saturday MFC 3.0, WB 0.0"

Precisely the point I'm trying to emphasise, Trident.

That grossly under-inclusive statistic ignores the fact that Whelan gave a goal away, and Bartram should have. But more than that, it overlooks the blatantly obvious fact that Footscray went into attack from their kick-ins, while Melbourne continually remained in desperate, stressful , defence. Apparently 3 times there were exceptions, and we went coast-to-coast for goals, and they didn't achieve that once, but there's SO much more to kick-ins, and defence of kick-ins than that.

Incidentally, the point I made about Warnock collecting the ball after points , but giving it away to someone else to kick in, was ignored by Demonlanders. I noticed it happening so often(always with Warnock, ), that I suspect it's a (misguided) coaching instruction. I'd like to see the reasoning behind that.

With half-decent kick-ins, we'd have beaten the Dogs today.

Thank heavens we didn't!

We MUST improve this next season.

I think you are wrong on this. We got smashed in the clearances particularly the middle. To say the kick ins cost us is too simplistic in my view.

"I think you are wrong on this."

I am saying that our kick-ins cost us more than 7 points. I don't suggest it was the ONLY reason we lost.

I think you're wrong on this. Our kick-ins, and our defence of kick-ins, are the worst in the AFL. Watch hard, and think about it.

Our kick-ins seem to have no pattern and no set up and hence no consistency. This is why they range from good (we scored 3 goals from kick ins) to woeful. You look at teams who do well from kick ins and they seem to have a plan. Examples are Brisbane (either Drummond or Johnstone) and Essendon (Fletcher).

I thought they cost us the game today.

I think we underestimate the importance of this facet of the game.

I think we need to use some creative thinking on this point. This year's the ideal opportunity to try some innovations. Sides with a chance of making the finals don't have this luxury.

20m. kicks to the back pocket are not innovative.....or effective(but better than Rivo's short pass to an opponent 25m. out, straight in front.)

Am I insanely obsessed with this failing in our tactics?

I don't agree it cost us the game. In fact, I think it's an area we've improved on, as we've also dramatically improved our offensive and defensive zones. That said, we still need to strengthen this area of our defense. Wheatley helps this, when he's in the side, because he can kick it so beautifully long and 50% it works, whereas previously without him it's more like 25%. But this year, we're at about 75-80% effective kick outs.

It's certainly cost us games in the past year, but I think we cost ourselves with simply misses (Miller's set shot from 40 out, directly in front was horrible) and clangers in the corridor. Having said that, our kicking was extremely accurate again, which was good to see.

Now that we're beginning to use the corridor more, if and when we turn it over, it's made all the worse by the fact that we've used the corridor. I know it's an understatement, but effectively, if you turn it over in the corridor, you give the opposition the corridor, but without any real defensive pressure. That kills us a lot and it did so on the weekend.

Once again,v. the Bombers no movement, no options, no penetration, no change of tactics. Never the quickly taken kick, catching out the opposition zones.

Meanwhile their kick-ins consistently set up attacks.

Did anyone else note the similarity between Friday's third quarter and the second quarter of the 2000 Grand Final?? After holding our own and looking as good as Ess. to that point, we suddenly became unable to clear the ball from defence after points. Time and time again the pressure mounted as we kicked in to contested situations. Eventually, the pressure told, and the floodgates opened.

Our best kick in came on the stroke of half time if memory serves.

Pinpoint pass to a player 50 away, who quickly moved the ball on to (Sylvia?) who was running down the wing on his own - siren.