reality check

Rivers.. 6 seasons ..played 70 of a potential 132 games. Of course this was due to injury ( and result form )

But thats the whole point

last two seasons.. 9 out of 44

Nobody wants to look at his.. its al lhes clas.. hes a great player..etc etc yadda yadda yada.. Yes he is..

and he doesnt get to the park !!

which bit of this escapes peoples attention ??

Sorry..the all powerful caveat...but when he's fit !! ..Just when is that ??

I would like him in the 18 as much as any... if only

trade him whilst we can. Its plain common sense.

Hindsight will validate

Dispite the current climate of trade for draft picks their needs to be calm heads in order to not throw the baby out with the bath water. Sure the guy has had

a shocking run of injuries and sure if those stats were of a lesser player I would be echoing your call, but lets just calm down a minute. You want to trade a

24yo star of the MFC for what?? a no guarantee top 20 draft pick, who has just as much chance of being the next Luke molan as Jared Rivers has of

never returning to the form WE KNOW he has.

Now I am all for making the hard decisions to get this club back to greatness, but I can't see the benefit in offloading the 24 yo gun that we know Rivers is for

some unproven kid. There is far more fat to trim from our list than that of rivers. Hindsight, if you got some step forward.

a shocking run of injuries

24yo star of the MFC for what?? a no guarantee top 20 draft pick,

never returning to the form WE KNOW he has.

Now I am all for making the hard decisions to get this club back to greatness, but I can't see the benefit in offloading the 24 yo gun that we know Rivers is for

Just think about what youhave written for a moment.. There ia absolutely NO GAURANTEE we willever see the Rivers of old....

We know Rivers WAS a gun...he's hardly been that in last 2 years... ..but lets all cross our fingers and toes hey !! he might come good...he might !! he might !!

Yes..common sense suggests you redirect efforts and resources into growing some other talents ( players )

Gotta know when to holdem..know when to foldem!!

Even if you really really really want something to happen.. sometimes it doesnt. Thats the dillema with Jared.. I .( again just me) would take what I could...( thats caleed realising value...even if littel ) and plow on. There are no guarantees about anything.. but as a business...and football IS a business..you have to minimise you exposure to risks...Jared is a Risk...thats justa reality.

Jared Rivers is a great player nobbled by a bad run of injuries ..Is it a case of throwing out the baby or of throwing away money ?

KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!!!

We lack leadership, and Rivo is a leader. He is a gun when fit, and worth keeping on the list.

Agreed.

A fully fit Jared Rivers is vital to any resurgence up the ladder.

With the support of the emerging Garland, Martin & Warnock; Rivers will thrive as a third tall, zoning off and supporting the other defenders.

He's tough, he's polished, and he is a real natural player.

A player like him deserves persistance despite injuries.

Rivers with his OP will get us chicken feed if anything at the trade table . FFS, why are people so keen to trade him? Beggars belief.

he won the rising star the other year and was recognised for his talent/ability to blossom into a star. which he will do

he's had surgery with a highly regarded specialist, and on the modified program. hopefully back to his best after round 4-5 next season. we must hold onto him

if we didn't sign frawley we could've traded him although i like frawley

martin, garland, warnock, frawley, rivers- we're set in the defense

Just think about what youhave written for a moment.. There ia absolutely NO GAURANTEE we willever see the Rivers of old....

We know Rivers WAS a gun...he's hardly been that in last 2 years... ..but lets all cross our fingers and toes hey !! he might come good...he might !! he might !!

Yes..common sense suggests you redirect efforts and resources into growing some other talents ( players )

Gotta know when to holdem..know when to foldem!!

Even if you really really really want something to happen.. sometimes it doesnt. Thats the dillema with Jared.. I .( again just me) would take what I could...( thats caleed realising value...even if littel ) and plow on. There are no guarantees about anything.. but as a business...and football IS a business..you have to minimise you exposure to risks...Jared is a Risk...thats justa reality.

Jared Rivers is a great player nobbled by a bad run of injuries ..Is it a case of throwing out the baby or of throwing away money ?

My God man!! Heaven help the next one of our stars to go down with a knee injury or any season ending injury for that matter, as by your current frame of mind,

you will have them on the trade table at a minutes notice. Brock, knee injury, 6 months, TRADE HIM!!!

If you are so certain his body is shot, what makes you think we would get anything for him given that other teams also know his recent bad run of injuries. We

got him at pick 26 back in 2002 so you tell me what you think you could get for him. Maybe we should just cut him loose into the pre-season draft for someone

to pick up for free, cause we certainly don't need to persist with the rehabilitation of any of our quality players now do we?

My God man!! Heaven help the next one of our stars to go down with a knee injury or any season ending injury for that matter, as by your current frame of mind,

No youre dead right..lets keep them all. really adds to our Team Which bit of 9 games in last two years escapes your comprenshion ? So many see what was...not what IS...let someone else take the gamble.

you will have them on the trade table at a minutes notice. Brock, knee injury, 6 months, TRADE HIM!!!

Id entertain trades for anyone..ANYONE..if it was value.. The good teams do that you know !! Explains a lot about where we're at. Not a minute's notice my friend...two years is two years !! or 1051200 minutes !!! thats a little different to your rant.

If you are so certain his body is shot, what makes you think we would get anything for him given that other teams also know his recent bad run of injuries. We got him at pick 26 back in 2002 so you tell me what you think you could get for him. Maybe we should just cut him loose into the pre-season draft for someone to pick up for free, cause we certainly don't need to persist with the rehabilitation of any of our quality players now do we?

Now funny you say that..imagine if some other team was prepared to swap for a second round pick.. we may even pick up another Rivers.. but one in good working order...or maybe not..and we do it all again. That s what you do..continually try to improve the list.. Hawthorn are about to do it and theyre bloody premiers !!

Am I certain his body is shot ? NO.. AM I inclined to think ot AOK ? NO I dont.. so getting a little something is better than paying for a whole lot of NOTHING !! as thats all weve had lately.. Prognosis isnt al that shiny. But we're a flush club at Deeland...lets just keep paying all these blokes to warm the pine.. convalesce..

In top nick.. a gun... cant rememebr last time that was !! thats the problem.

Maybe we should just cut him loose into the pre-season draft for someone to pick up for free, cause we certainly don't need to persist with the rehabilitation of any of our quality players now do we?

He is actually contracted... need to extract what ever value he/all present...however it comes.

But the notion is interesting

[quote name=\i like frawley

martin, garland, warnock, frawley, rivers- we're set in the defense

Like it or not he has no significant trade value in his current state

IMO he is better off remaining with us and being available to play

Did anyone read the Dermott Brereton article in today's HUN about the kind of players required to build a team tough enough to Flag?

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl...6-19742,00.html

I agree with their recruiting rationale, and believe MFC should adopt a similar drafting strategy rather than the usual skinny boys we take.

Rivers does not fit our requirements going forward, is too injured to fit, if not injured, not strong enough to fit.

TRADE!!

Hawthorn Premiership Player 2009

Stephen Gilham - 192cm, 90kg

One of "the usual skinny boys we take"

Jared Rivers - 192cm, 90kg

Stephen Gilham first season at Hawthorn - 191cms, 84kg

Stephen Gilham first season at Power - 191cms, 76kg

Jared Rivers first season at Dees - 191cms, 85kg

Hawthorn Premiership Players 2009

Xavier Ellis - 187cm, 80kg,

Rick Ladson - 179cm, 85kg

Two of the 'usual skinny boys we draft'

Brock Maclean, 184cms, 88kg

Colin Sylvia, 186cms, 87kg

Xavier Ellis in first year on Hawks list - 187cms, 73kgs

Rick Ladson in first year on Hawks list - 179cms, 74kgs

Brock Maclean in first year on Dees list - 184cms, 85kgs

Colin Sylvia in first year on Dees list - 184cms, 84kg

Rivers with his OP will get us chicken feed if anything at the trade table . FFS, why are people so keen to trade him? Beggars belief.

He doesn't get on the park. He is good, but not good enough. Name some recent "kills". For that matter, name some future possible kills; Roughhead, Franklin maybe..?

he won the rising star the other year and was recognised for his talent/ability to blossom into a star. which he will do

he's had surgery with a highly regarded specialist, and on the modified program. hopefully back to his best after round 4-5 next season. we must hold onto him

if we didn't sign frawley we could've traded him although i like frawley

martin, garland, warnock, frawley, rivers- we're set in the defense

Enough talent there, even if Bailey's Babies is having troubles understanding who he really loves...

Like it or not he has no significant trade value in his current state

IMO he is better off remaining with us and being available to play

Why? To clog up the list with suspect bodies, and also no possibility of being selected in a grand final side because he doesn't have the ability to win us a flag.

Like it or not he has no significant trade value in his current state

IMO he is better off remaining with us and being available to play

Agreed.

With his injuries, no team will offer what he is worth for him.

Keep.

I really like this topic. Normally I dislike these discussions but this one is unusual because of the player involved. People have said and I agree that Rivers value is over what we'd get for him, I agree. I really like him so i'd say keep but it is a real gamble isn't it? I mean surely this is his last chance? With another injury crippling season you'd have to say his trade value would be nil and his career could be done.

Hawthorn Premiership Player 2009

Stephen Gilham - 192cm, 90kg

One of "the usual skinny boys we take"

Jared Rivers - 192cm, 90kg

Stephen Gilham first season at Hawthorn - 191cms, 84kg

Stephen Gilham first season at Power - 191cms, 76kg

Jared Rivers first season at Dees - 191cms, 85kg

Hawthorn Premiership Players 2009

Xavier Ellis - 187cm, 80kg,

Rick Ladson - 179cm, 85kg

Two of the 'usual skinny boys we draft'

Brock Maclean, 184cms, 88kg

Colin Sylvia, 186cms, 87kg

Xavier Ellis in first year on Hawks list - 187cms, 73kgs

Rick Ladson in first year on Hawks list - 179cms, 74kgs

Brock Maclean in first year on Dees list - 184cms, 85kgs

Colin Sylvia in first year on Dees list - 184cms, 84kg

Ellis is as hard as nails though.

Did Ladson play on Sat? I don't remember him lol