Deecisive

Hard to see any real game plan in the crap dished up in both matches. Yes we had two excellent brief passages of play/skill and structure against the GWS that resulted in multiple goals while shutting the opposition out. But 2 out of 8 quarters is not enough. We seemed to have a lot more inside 50's this year (so far) but it seems to be bouncing out just as quick and often back to the oppositions goals/points. We need stronger defensive pressure in our forward line and someone marking those bombs into the forward 50 that opposition players seem to have no trouble picking up and marking.

We bomb it to Hogan in the square because that is where he is. If he lead up the field a bit more then maybe we could pass it to him. Unfortunately he is usually having to wrestle himself free from one or two opponents who either man handle or try to shepherd him out of the contest. We need players to get between him and his shadow to give a meter on his opponents.

When weed get firing he will be smoking good..

I wont mind petracca and have suggested he come in, but most people here seem to think he needs a few weeks to cook in the VFL, I would still prefer him to play this week even half baked.

Everyones Talls give us trouble, we just continue to hope they dont cannot kick straight on the day...

We have missed dunns long booming kicks out of defense, and suffered in both matches due to poor turnovers from kick-ins that is not to say Dunn does not also have his moments, but he more often than not gets the ball beyond the 50 meter defensive circle near the boundary where we can get a throw in and reset.

Hogan needs to start the game somewhere where he needs to run and present for the ball where he is not crowded, centre half forward or centre half back. I suggest CHB because he more likely to see more of the ball there. Weeds at HFF, Watts at CHF, Vince HFF, Galrett at FF. Once Hogan has got into the game then switch him to centre half forward so that he does not just end up at the bottom of a pack again.

If Hogan was jesus Christ then I would not play him in the forward line but out of the centre, as he is only Jesse Hogan, he needs a run somewhere we he can concentrate on getting the ball and moving it on. if it is not working for him in the forward line then put him in the backline to get him some touches.

Coaches need to get a sports psychologist to help work on hogans desire to compete. His desire to compete at the moment is solely focused on the mark, nothing else. If he misses the mark he has a tendency to stand back and let the opposition players sweep the ball away. He is not a great chaser (but the same could be said for a lot of our players at the moment) and he is not a great tackler. He looses interest in the contest too quickly. If he has a true desire for the ball then he will find ways to win the ball, it may not always be the first effort or the second but he will win a lot more of the ball.

We were counting our win before we played the game, we thought we could be cute and now worry about it, that somewhere along the line we would kick into action and beat them. but we didn't. We have a proud history of loosing games that we are favourites in over the last 5 years or so. The age had a picture of the essendon banner "Red band black and damn proud" surrounded by a load of supporters. I suggest they get a copy of this an blow it up and put it up on the wall to remind them you never take any opponent lightly,

I agree Lloyd makes quite a few valid points that most of us see, it maybe his conclusion that we doubt. We are unlikely to win again north so why no experiment. Weiderman to the forward flank. Garlett at ff and tracca as forward pocket. Watts at CHF. Hogan at CHB with Frost at FB. Both frost and Hogan will be running straight at the ball and Hogan will certainly have to do more than just look at his hands and the umpire if he does not mark it. At CHB he will need to attack the ball all day long which is what we want to see. He is a good kick, though he is usually a little slow to move it on from a mark. I think time in the backline may help him get some touches,. after all we can expect the ball to be down the backline more often than our forward line. Rest of the players just many up and play with passion.

We had quite a few players who supposedly had a tank but did not use it. Weideman would be playing most of the game wide on the flank out of hogans way, being tall enough that the opposition would need to keep him covered so keep another opposition player out of hogans way. Being Tall he also provides another competent marking option should everyone go to Hogan, He has proven he can lead and kick goals, so he knows enough of the basics to be serviceable.

While I don't see the umpiring as an excuse for our loss, I must admit I am getting a bit worried about the umpiring that I have seen over the last couple or rounds it must be getting very confusing for the players. Players are dropping the ball all over the place when tackled without it being paid as illegal disposal. Holding the ball some players have all day and nothing others don't have a chance to get rid of it are gang tackled and its holding the ball. The deliberate out of bounds is enforced inconsistently as is over the shoulder and holding players away from or in the contest. Then we have the dangerous tackle charade or in the back when a players is falling forward and the player tackling has to come along for the ride. The 10 meter exclusion zone and kicking not 15 meters all very confusing due to the inconsistency of when and which umpires pay what. .

Frost has shown that he is not cutting it as a forward yet, so give him a chance to get his hands on the ball and find some form in the backline a position he has played a little time. Once he starts to show a bit more form then consider him for the forward line. At the moment he should take garlands place against north, we need the height to combat brown and the other north forwards and resting rucks.

New recruits at Hawthorn play in the reserves for years because their senior side is so strong. If they weren't then they would be playing their younger players. Essendon had no trouble beating us with new first year recruits a couple having more disposals than most of our senior, seasoned players.

Agreed, these guys are our future they need game experience and they need to have that playing with the current playing group.

Weideman has shown he can mark and kick straight, the challenge for Melbourne is to deliver the ball to him so he can mark it. Playing him off a half forward flank wide of Hogan and Watts would give him a chance, he would be hard pressed to do less than kent did on Saturday.

Some significant issues from yesterdays loss. - The players have lost a lot of momentum and self belief. - The loss serious undermined supporters view of Roos and to some degree the coaching panel. - Supporters who have been living off the hope since the draft that a new year with a fit Jessie Hogan, Petracca, Brayshaw and Oliver can five us the lift we need. now we see that the lift we need is far greater than just adding a couple of star recruits. - Lastly we made so many many Essendon supporters not only happy but rich with odds of 6 to 1.

Amazing that other teams can bring in their first year draft players and play them from the start, but demons have to run them through the VFL for months? why, if a player is playing reasonable football why not give him a chance to step up. And for all those who blame watts stunted development on going to early, I doubt it, its a game where players have to step up sooner or later, giving him another 3 or 4 games in the VFL would not have changed that outcome. Some players take-up the challenge and rise to it, others will fail no matter how long you play them in the VFL. We need our young players to get 40-50 games under their belts that cannot before they really start to contribute, they cannot do that quickly if they spend half their year or more in the VFL, when they could be getting senior experience. Yes we will loose some games, but they will all get better for the run, so will help us climb the ladder next year and the year after instead of 3-4 years time.

Agree titan it was lost on the field - 9 of our players had less 70% disposal efficiency to their 1 - 6 of their players had 5 or more tackles we only had one player reach 5. I lost count of how many tackles were brushed aside. - 10 of their players had as many or more marks than our best at 7. - 8 of our players had 10 or less disposals while they only had 1 player with 10 or less disposals. This forum has been full of fans making excuses for poor players and poor attitudes. - The selection committee did not loose this game. - The coaching group did not loose this game, roose should go, Goodwin will save us.... - the umpires did not cost us the game. - essendon's emotional line in the sand was too strong... too many fans cheering for them.... no. - Leaving only one player on Daniher cost us the game. he missed a lot of shots that others may have gotten, so I don't see that lost us the game. - Not covering men on the wing cost us the game, these players would not have been as damaging if we did not turn it over to them all the time for the rebound goals they delivered. The reality is our players lost this game. Viney is supposed to have said that some of the players may have coming into this game taking it easy, maybe so, but once it became obvious that Essendon came to play our players still did not step up and match their intensity, why. again this is something for each and every player to answer. As our history shows we loose extremely frequently when we go in as favourites.

I personally don't care if the don't like Roos he is the coach and they are playing for the Melbourne Football club, they should be man enough to play there best football no matter who their coach is. Besides I am not sure I like the idea of a coach that is everyones friends, I think players are more likely to get an honest assessment of their game, mistakes, etc from Roos than Goodwin.

We need a few talls to give us some capability to mix it up should Norths talls dominate as they have in the past. Dunn and Frost in, Tom mac and bugg out. ANB in Harmes out Trengove in Kent out Weiderman in Hogan out Grimes in Garland out. I would like to see Lumumba replaced by Stretch but I guess that is pretty unlikely given Roos belief he delivered. We are not likely to win against north unless we have our best team playing their best football as this is not happening. I am happy to send a few back to Casey for education and to show the serious disappointment the club had with their performance on Saturday.

People seem to be inferring that under Roos we play one style and under Goodwin another, I really doubt that is the case. The change in play instituted by Goodwin would be continued under Roos, they are a coaching group that work together to decide. To pin this all on roos and declare it would have been different under Goodwin seems surreal given the pathetic football the players played. Again the game is won on the ground that's where players skill, or lack thereof, players mistakes and heroics occur. we had a lot of the former and non of the latter. That is where the game was lost. The blame should sit squarely on the 22 players on the field who were not accountable for their man or do their job. How many coaching careers has Melbourne destroyed because the players are not up to it. Now everyone is looking for Roos head, then when Goodwin our next saviour is unable to deliver because of the same players who do we blame then, but the coach. Even the best coaches in the world cannot turn a team into winners unless the team is committed to becoming winners and has the talent to support it.

I wonder if they have actually given the leadership team any professional leadership training, or is it a tap on the shoulder and promotion. Leadership is something that does not automatically come to people because you call them a leader they have to have the right attributed either naturally in them or learned. I think our leadership team needs some more professional training and perhaps bonding sessions to support each other.

Those who say Roos will take it easy on the player, really, you think he knows the quality of the Essendon side we played a team touted as not being able to win a game and would take it easy for our p@ss poor game. He and every other coach will be talking to the players individually and collectively about yesterdays disgrace. If the players don't get enough of that they can just talk to their friends, families, work mates who will be rubbing it in hard as are the newspapers, support bulletin boards, etc.. The question is do they have what it takes to get up off the canvas and prove they are better than this, sadly after yesterdays outing I wonder if we do.