Lucifers Hero

This one? ...And JV just strolls away leaving Selwood wondering what hit him!

29,053. Slowly creeping up to last year's pre Christmas number of 29,426. I would guess the club is disappointed to be behind last year after a seemingly improved 2017. But probably not surprised.

Was training not to continue as usual this week at The Paddock? No reports from anyone or on the club website. Perhaps it was all indoors. I wonder if @Satyriconhomeknows what happened to training? Or maybe @Drunkn167 might know.

Correct FD. The rule is 'last disposal' ie kick or handball, whether deliberate or not.

Drunken indicated some in our leadership voiced concerns about the camp. The leadership team is: Vince: 32 y.o Lewis: 31 y.o Gawn: Injured most of 2017. History of hamstring injuries. Working hard to get back to his best. Viney: carried foot injury all thru last preseason and 2017 season and has not yet recovered. Jones: reported calf issues a few weeks ago and will be 30 next month. Mcdonald: Recovering from double ankle surgery - set to join main training after Christmas. All are over 30 and/or have leg/foot injuries. And, we know of other players who have foot/back niggles/concerns. So, I can see why one or more leaders would have genuine concerns about player well being and injury risk. What does not make sense is the club wanting to take aging/injured/recovering players on a grueling camp. It makes me wonder if the club fully thought it through or handled player concerns properly. Add AFLPA to the mix and a leak to the media and we have a very bad look story. Unfortunately, it adds to the 'Demons are mentally weak' narrative and it will be milked, mercilessly next year. I'm not interested in knowing who the players were. Just want us to stop shooting ourselves in the foot. And, if there is an 'elephant in the room' over this, Goodwin and Co need to decamp it asap! Footnote: I believe Melbourne Storm (Comando style camp) and Hawthorn (Kakoda) take only new recruits these days.

But what did he do to work their issues out with coaches? After all a key job of captaincy is to be the conduit between the playing group and the coaches and at times that means airing their grievances for them. So rather than be unimpressed, has he asked himself what he did to nip it in the bud. And if he did everything he could and players still went to AFLPA then something is really not working.

Thanks. I can't imagine how gruelling it would be. I agree, I don't think it was laziness. Perhaps poorly thought thru but not laziness. For general info. Hawthorn did a 5-day camp which included doing laps carrying a weighted tractor tyre, then a 3 day hike. That didn't look like much fun either! Some fascinating pics on their website (if anyone can bear going to an opps website...)

I suspect you are right and that it was 'unwittingly'. To support that - From reports some players rang AFLPA for 'guidance'. Not unreasonable by concerned players. There is every possibility the players just wanted to know their options, not necessarily looking for direct action by AFLPA. A bit naive on their part perhaps as that is not how unions work especially on H&S issues. At that point it was taken out of player hands and again from reports, AFLPA took up the cause. It does not seem much negotiating went on last week. The pin was duly pulled on the camp. There may well be a few sheepish players at training this week who would not be happy they have unwittingly brought this upon their teammates and coaches. Unfortunately, the media loves this stuff and sometimes mud sticks. Not a good look for us but hopefully, some other club/player slips up this week to give media hounds something else to talk about.

Hey, Smokey. You mentioned earlier you are ex SAS and that the players made a smart decision. So you are one of the very few on here that has some idea of what the players went thru. While SAS training may differ from what Goodwin describes as 'a special operations camp was by senior police officers', can you give us an idea of what may have upset some players so much. And why said players would complain this year given the club had apparently overcome the shortcomings from 2016. (I believe the camp was to run 18th-20th ie includes two nights). Thanks.

Hunt missed a year from mid 2014 with a serious back injury. Let's hope it isn't the same/related (if he is injured). On the positive side our club and doctors have successfully treated him and (Hogan) for serious back injuries and know how to look after them. If he is at training this week we know he is ok. Even if he isn't, it may not be serious - just precautionary rest till the new year. Let's wait till we hear something one way or the other.

Cheers. I just happened to be sitting at my computer and saw the notification. As it turns out your info is more correct than mine so thanks.

Thanks. It looks like there was a mailout so my comments about members not being advised are off the mark but it appears that not all members received the letter etc. Perhaps it is just a record keeping thing.

Thanks. That looks like the notice for the 2015 AGM. Even so, I believe the requirement is for members to be individually advised in writing (paper or electronic) and provided with a copy of the Agenda and other stuff. For example Richmond's is here. http://www.richmondfc.com.au/club/about/annual-general-meeting and it lists the extra stuff. It seems AGM communications have been a bit clumsy this year going on poster's experiences above.

Nor did I. Nor is there anything on club website advising of AGM Details. (Not sure about twitter or fb). I have officiated at incorporated clubs and my recollection is that there is an ASIC (?) requirement that members be advised in writing of an AGM. Not sure if this applies to AFL clubs tho. Our lack of notification was either someone in the Comms department messed up (big, big time) or the club didn't want many members who might ask tricky questions and forgot to tell us. Whatever the reason, someone in the club needs to be quietly held accountable. And perhaps, someone to revisit the AGM aspect of our Corporate Governance responsibilities. Agree, alarm bells are not ringing but I do hear a jingle or two and they aren't from Santa and his Reindeers!

I would be very happy if we were: Finals in 4 years of last 5 with a premiership. 75,000+ members. Sponsors bashing down their door. A dedicated oval at Punt Road. No, we are the same old Melbourne. Languishing in our mediocrity.

Some would say Macca is his mentor. But Macca's people management skills aren't too flash either and he is part of the day to day coaching panel so not always able to be fully objective. I've said elsewhere, I think Goodwin needs a Neil Balme, Chris Fagan (@hawthorn) type who oversees the footy department and challenges him on major team/player related decisions. Right now I feel the checks and balances on our coaches aren't as strong as they could be. We have Mahoney, but his role seems more admin/liason than what Balme did for Thompson/Scott/Hardwick and Clarkson and Fagan did for Clarkson. No coincidence for me that those two guys have presided over about 8-10 of the premierships 12 years.

The Third. Telling Jones he is being demoted to co-captain (Jones' words) while playing golf would not pass the people management 101 test. Such things call for privacy with time and atmosphere to facilitate discussion. Jones was hit between the eyes with it with no heads-up to prepare him for the news.

No credit to me for this report - it is a copy of 'Proper Gander's' post on bigfooty: "Okay so I have quizzed Ancient about training today so here are the things I learned: Kent and Salem absent - probably hiding from Goody following the great boot camp mutiny. The rehab group included Hogan, Weed, Tommy - also the new dudes were separate from the main group doing some drills with Crossey and Garland, apart from the Casey guy whose name I can’t ever remember how to spell. Is it Fritsch? Anyway he was with the main group. Ancient didn’t see Petracca training at all but he must have done stuff with the rehab group early because he had a nice chat with him as he (Ancient) arrived and Trac was heading back to AAMI. He was shirtless so presumably had been running or something, unless he is just your run-of-the-mill partial nudist. Hogan and Weed had a sort of goal kicking competition which Hogan won apparently. It sounds like they were doing the same sort of drills as previous sessions. So they spent some time split into groups of defenders, mids and forwards doing things. Lewis is grouped with defenders at present. Ancient reckons Lever looks excellent, and is very vocal and encouraging and so forth. A very self confident young man. He also singled out Brayshaw and Oliver for training house down honours. There was lots of running and then some match simulation type drills, moving the ball quickly through the corridor. The general impression was that everyone looked sharp so we had better win lots of things or I’ll get angry. Apparently McCartney gave Pig a mighty serve for something or other - lots of authentic yelling and “if you don’t like it you can leave” stuff. Don’t know what provoked it, but Hibberd didn’t leave so presumably learned to like whatever it was that needed liking. That’s pretty much all the detail I have except for the report that the Santa Claus seemed creepy somehow and Daisy was having her photo taken with about a million kids". ...Thanks 'Proper Gander' - a very entertaining report.

The boot camps haven't caused problems for our Gosch's neighbours. Storm have managed a few minor premierships/flags. 2013 article: https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/melbourne-storm-players-endure-brutal-boot-camp/news-story/2df448b8c2f07ff0259a074426f8962c Brutal is an understatement! No complaints from Storm players. 2016 article: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/storm/inside-craig-bellamys-infamous-preseason-boot-camp-for-melbourne-storm-recruits/news-story/3dc8c03c030dda05e19779e6312baf9b Whatever happened something went wrong for us last year. Did we chat with Bellamy/Storm before deciding to run it again this year? Did we canvas our leadership group about running it again? The merits of the camp aside, the outside interpretation is again: 'mentally weak'. The players have taken a stand. Good on them. But lets not go missing or fading out of games. The days of picking and choosing need to end.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/melbourne-demons/melbourne-training-camp-cancelled-after-players-consult-aflpa-20171214-h04vri.html Quote: '...Melbourne players met with the AFLPA to seek guidance on how to approach the situation with the club". Does that suggest players had tried to negotiate with the club and failed so took an official grievance to the 'Union'. Should have been sorted without players going to the 'Union'. It might explain why it was cancelled so late but for mine, makes the situation look even worse.

That is true. But one would think there would be negotiation with players on whatever the 'deal breaker' aspect of the camp was for them. After all the article says: "The club's football department was satisfied they had taken significant measures to increase the safety for players after last year's camp". So the club had acted on some known issues. Negotiating the activities at the camp is acceptable (not ideal). But to boycott cancel the whole shebang. I'm speechless and left wondering what sort of team are we?

It isn't about the training options for the last few days before Christmas. It is about the poor communication between players/leaders and footy staff. It is about taking players out of their comfort zones. And more importantly it is about not allowing players to call the shots. Slippery slope right there. So what now - anytime a player(s) don't want to do so something, go when it is their turn or whatever, they cry 'too hard boss'!!

Big time deja vu happening forme - players cancelled training with Dean Bailey (ref Jim Stynes book). Look where that got us! On any level this does not sit right: This camp would have taken weeks/months to schedule and organise. Were the players not consulted/told about it till last week? Doesn't sound like two-way communication was happening. Did the leadership group not sass out the players earlier? How did it come to this. Other clubs walk the Kokada track - now that is gruelling. Referring to Tyson and Salem last year is irrelevant. Injuries can happen at any time - just ask Petracca who did his ACL simply going for a mark. But we go weak at the knees at a few days at a boot camp. Sheesh! We finally ditched the 'bruise free football' label. But last year we proved the 'mentally weak' label over and over again, right up to round 23. Respect lost with 17 other teams Club talks about being ruthless. Given the chance to walk the talk and do something really tough the players back off. I'm staggered the club allowed the players to call the shots. So much for Goodwin's tough talk. My expectations for 2018 have been jolted - backwards.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/michael-christian-to-replace-afl-match-review-panel-under-new-judiciary-system-20171214-h04gp5.html "In his role as the single decision-maker, Christian will liaise directly with Hocking, who will tick off on each incident". So much for MRP independence if the AFL Hocking is involved in each case to tick it off. There are some good changes re the penalties so it will hopefully be better. It certainly seems easier to get off or get a light(er) penalty - not sure if that is a good thing. But to have one person adjudicate just opens it up to bias. And I have little confidence in Hocking/AFL role to not just fudge it to get the outcome they want. I feel this is a backward step. Far better to have a 3 person panel with a Chair and to have some legal experience on the panel. Edit: This article summarises the changes a bit better http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-12-14/major-changes-to-afl-match-review-panel