rufus

Sadly the Saints and now Carlton have gone past us...players look hungrier for success than ours. Pies always hungrier than us so expect them to finish above us. That leaves limited room for us in the 8 without a change to how our guys compete. For those who think Petracca and Oliver want success or will likely look elsewhere, what would define success? Only 8 out of 19 'experts' believe this team, including players like Petracca, Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney, Gawn, May, Lever, Brown all in and around their prime years, are good enough for much more than 8th. So would making the 8 be enough for a successful season for this group? I think yes.

Just going off what I've heard on here about Oliver and Petracca. Really hope it's incorrect...because if it's true then i don't hold much hope for us. Reality for great players in professional sports is that there is no legacy like winning a premiership with your original team. It generally means that not only can you play the game, but you are also a person who potentially can change and/or drive a culture of success.

Doubt there has been a premiership team in history where there's been noise that players 'want success or they'll leave'. Never heard that from players at Haw, Coll, WCE, Syd, etc. even during lean periods. Until we get the right mix of players who take responsibility for the success of this club we're not winning anything. We are way off with this group.

Who cares what people think about him. Jackson like all our players has it in his own hands whether he can be effective in various roles. Let actions talk. Unfortunately our players over the years have tended to deliver less than what they're capable of...hence commentators seemingly 'picking on' the MFC. Hopefully Jackson is one of the guys to start turning the tide.

Collingwood will re-invent. They always do. They have a highly competitive culture that we should aspire to. Can't see us being better than any of those teams, and Carlton are also ready to go past us. Despite having significantly poorer lists than ours, I expect that both Ess and Haw will go past us soon enough too. Didn't see anything from our group this year that suggests they are the ones who are going to turn the club around. We are paying way too much for underperforming senior players which is also making it harder to improve. This club need a string of seasons where we show fight and compete for 4 quarters for the majority of the seasons. Results will take care of themselves but i think it's more important that we start to shift the culture than necessarily playing finals. A more competitive general culture would help entice the kind of talent you need to bring to the club. That should be our focus. If we have another season where the players choose to take quarters and full games off we are going to suffer big time. Hope I am proven wrong and our youngers guys take a huge leap forward and help set the tone for what we all want this club to be...

Gee if the net result of his 4 year contract is $3 million out the window and jeopardising our ability to sign consistent performers like Oliver with the required contract value, all for a return of 4 years of VFL standard football, then this is one of the better duddings from a well paid player in their peak years that we've copped in recent times (and there have been plenty). I wanted them to move him on at least to show that this club is over copping that level of output from the guys who should be driving us towards the top. Even if you accept the excuses for a drop from his full capabity, he took the field many times and was unable to compete in any fashion (including tackling or even just getting the ball to ground in contests). Lets hope he can turn it around. Reckon he owes this club a bit over the next 2 years.

This is interesting and while not the intention of his comments, it does highlight what others have mentioned about Oliver. And that is, if rumours of wanting to play in a successful team are true, well so much of realising that at the MFC are hugely in Olivers control. I rate him very highly but he can be even better. And further improvement from Oliver would help us move towards the next level. Like our other mids, if his improvement was centred around how he leverages his strengths to compliment the strengths of our other mids then we would improve in leaps and bounds. I guess we'll see what he's really made of over the next 12 months.

Stewart was excellent for Geelong. Martin a class above everyone. Have to give credit to Geelong...a team of players that i think are generally not great at the contest have just given a very good team a decent shake in a GF. Since the 2018 prelim they have stood up like men and competed while our guys have shrunk and looked for something/someone to blame.

Agreed 100%. Even if not raining, the dewey nights are not conducive to a great spectacle.

To see the Demons in another of these games, and to 'play like Demons' as Checker famously said, is (outside family things) something i want to see more than anything else. Unfortunately we are a number of years off. Watch the prolonged intensity of tonight's game and it will be hard to think of a time in recent years when we've competed at the required level for long enough. We have the talent to build towards this...just hoping somewhere along the line we can find the right mix of attitudes to drag our club to the promised land. Think it needs to start with a few years of relentless effort and competitiveness before we could be considered in the mix.

I think your comments here are spot on and I have felt that as a club we have been like this for a very long time. It's also why I see it as pointless bringing in experienced players from other clubs under the theory that we are in a position to have a crack at a flag. I reckon our players are so far off from showing the intensity and fight required for long enough to be a threat to anyone in big games that it'd be a complete waste. My view is we're better off moving on any player who isn't fully committed to doing what is required to turn this club around, along with those making big money and delivering very little, and going to the draft again (albeit a bad time to be doing that) in the hope that we eventually get a group together who are motivated to take responsibility for making this club good again.

Watching his efforts in the latter part of his time at Melb was my tipping point to give up my memberships and stop giving up my time to go watch games live. Was so disappointed with the club in general...i felt he should have been told to take the jumper off and leave on the spot. Understand that's not how it works as we had to try and hold some value for his departure, but i just thought that the disresepect to what should be treated as a privileged position was appaling.

Oliver is the one we need to keep more than anyone else...try to get him on a 5+ year contract and build around him. He is our best player. I hope/imagine he isn't wanting out because of a B&F finish. Also doesn't grab me as the kind of competitor who would give up and leave a club because of lack of success. Seems more likely to be someone who would want to drive the club forward. I don't know how others feel, but my perception of players who achieve ultimate team success with their original team is that they are very often held in higher regard than those who have swapped teams. It just seems to be a greater achievement. That goes for many different sports, not just footy.

Well done Lions. Have applied enough pressure to allow the game to be decided on talent...and they have plenty. Tigers have won a lot of games by pressuring more than their opponents...the Lions wore it and look the better team on pure talent.

Our players looked good for the few weeks we applied high level pressure to the oppo. Funnily the skills looked a lot better those weeks too. Then it got a bit hard and we gave it up. Every year the flag is won by the team that applies the most pressure for longer...our guys either don't get it or just don't want to do it. Had we made it to Perth next weekit would have been a s^%# show. We could just as easily have turned up with the white flag raised.

They've been put under physical pressure in this game...which has driven a lot of skill errors. Something we decided not to do against them or the Swans. Go figure.

Dogs look like they want to play finals...applying pressure and tackling. Hmmm...

We are finishing about where we deserve to finish on the season's efforts. Didn't see much of the game today but 26 tackles is a disappointing number...especially being -17 vs Essendon. If the tackle count was swapped we win by 60+ points. Eagles would be licking their chops if Freo knock off the Dogs...facing the team sitting dead last for tackles in a final won't raise too many concerns...

They sound like excuses, which ironically also fit in pefectly with the culture of the club. I'm not comparing Tom McDonald to me, I'm comparing his performances to senior players in similar age brackets from other clubs, which i would have thought is fair to do for a highly paid athlete. We should be getting a baseline performance that is at the least competitive and can contribute positively to the team. Unfortunately, I find it hard to think of many MFC players over the last 15 years, outside of Nathan Jones, whose performances saw a general upward trend through their peak ages. No idea exactly what the root cause is but if it doesn't change we are going nowhere.

Also joins a long list of MFC players who have gone backwards through their peak years. Do they get happy with themsleves, stop doing the work, then fall behind the pack? That would certainly fit in with the general culture of the club.

What are the chances we turn up for the fight tonight? Who knows really. GWS will look to pressure us for long enough...they will know our guys will toss it in if it gets really hard. If we bring the can't be f%$&#d's right from the start then it will get ugly.

If he wants to leave in part because he was replaced as captain then best for everyone that he goes. This club has long suffered from the interests of the individual being put before the team. If the club thought a change of captain was justified, then a good team player would cop it on the chin and get on with it. Any chance we have of meaningful cultural change starts with the dog taking back it's own tail.

Well we still have 2 more games to look forward to. I am excited to see if tackling lightly with one arm starts to work next week...they are getting better at applying the single arm each week so we might be near peaking. Also will be interesting to see if allowing the oppo to take the ball from full back to full forward without getting close to an opponent or applying any pressure starts to pay off...it seems a great approach so surely it will start to bear some fruit soon.

Spot on. Never has a group been more primed to roll over for a 10 goal hiding than our blokes next week. Just rolled over against 14th and 15th and now cop a team with something to play for. Yuck.

Rivers looks good but it is symptomatic of what this club is when he was extremely slow to get rid of it in the third, got run down, then jogged back to try and pressure the ball back from Freo. A typical effort from an MFC player. And it is constantly accepted by all.