Macca

Well, I've just about given up predicting soccer Cards but Liverpool should win considering how Newcastle have been going ... there I go again. Anyway, we'll find out soon enough. My Hammers got a draw at Man U last night but I'm quite disappointed we didn't win! That's how much things have changed - any other year a draw at United would have been cause for celebration

It's gone past the embarrassing stage for Chelsea now ... if Chelsea weren't still alive in the Champions League then I reckon Mourinho might have been moved on by now. The bookies don't seem to like Spurs or Leicester at all but neither team can be ruled out in all honesty ... anyway, there's massive interest now in the race to the title. The better teams are losing or drawing at home to average teams and that trend may well continue ... unless one of the top fancies gets on a streak. Which one? (or 2) ... who knows? As you said Cards ... a huge game for the Reds tonight.

Cinci KC Carolina

Very sad news with the passing of Scott Weiland ... a unique talent as lead singer of both Stone Temple Pilots & Velvet Revolver. 2 of their more recognisable songs featuring Scott ... Stone Temple Pilots - Interstate Love Song Velvet Revolver - Dirty Little Thing

Only had radio and I'd given up on the win on quite a few occasions during the game (especially after the 1st quarter and then at half time) First of all pass interference might have been called in that last frantic minute and then that dubious face mask call when time had run out ... then the hail-mary. A freak win and we were awfully lucky - but sometimes the best team loses and we've all been on the end of that type of misfortune before ... the Packers saved their season in unbelievable circumstances and the Lions lost a game they should never have lost (and they are done for the year to boot - well, you'd reckon they're done!) Green Bay @ Detroit highlights

Some sports people (including coaches) seem to always get a pass mark or are untouchable whilst others are seemingly always under the pump. And there doesn't seem to be sound reasoning as to why.

Just had a look at the schedule and hadn't noticed that the Packers & Detroit play tomorrow ... well, at least the pain or the glory will be out of the way quickly These Thursday night games come up quickly and for this week at least, there's a lot riding on this game ... Bears & Viking fans barracking for the Lions? You betcha! Detroit are starting to play really well and who knows with the Packers? .. not confident.

Week 13 games (2 points on offer this week) Leaderboard in the comp 5 - Gorgoroth, cowboy_from_ hell 4 - JV7, Georgiou R.R. Martin 2 - Macca 1 - titan_uranus 0 - The rest

McCarthy is just an average coach who divides opinion amongst Packer fans ... his play calling during the NFC Championship game last season was poor ... settling for 3 pointers on the road was costly in the long run. If we miss the playoffs his position will come under threat ... at a guess I reckon he'd survive but he'd be on notice. Your blokes just continue to rack up the wins cfh - kudos. Every team gets injuries Gorgo and our's haven't been that bad ... we haven't covered well enough for the loss of Nelson and that's on the coaching staff in my opinion. It's as if they're using the loss of Nelson as an excuse. If Rodgers was out - different story. We have high expectations at Green Bay and losing 4 of 5 with a multiple MVP winning QB is just unacceptable.

ha ha! It's probably a long shot but I can't believe that a club with the talent that Chelsea have will finish outside of the top 6 or 8 ... they'll need to make their move now though - win 5 of their next 6 and their back in it.

They might get on a roll Cards ... all the teams at the top are dropping points and if Chelsea can start winning consistently, they can start to bridge the gap - can't see them winning the whole thing but they might sneak 4th spot and get into Europe. I had a quick look at their fixture and their next 8 only includes a couple of tough games. Mind you, the Costa reaction could set things back again. I wonder if they'll spend up big in the January window. Your lads aren't far away either ... I still reckon it's Man City's title to lose but there's a number of clubs who could win the whole thing. Leicester aren't going away easily but it would still be a major surprise if they got up.

Well, we'll find out soon enough. There are players who mature late or get better late ... Dunn is a good example of that. I don't ordinarily like to rule a line through a player whilst there's at least a season ahead for that player. The Match Committee would act the same way. Some players lift when the team lifts ... Dawes cops it too but if he was the genuine 3rd forward with the 1 and 2 key forwards firing, he'd come into his own. Some forwards are ideally suited to being the 3rd forward ... it's a bit the same in cricket with the good 3rd seamer (Max, Merv, Sids, Dizzy) Your call for Watts in the FP might be the right one but I'll stick to my midfield role for Jack.

Yep, the hype was huge and even though I'm distrustful of the draft, I got caught up - and both showed a bit in their first year too. Re Watts ... he's still a fair way ahead of many on our list so I don't see him going anywhere. If you look at our list closely, there's quite a few who would go before him. The issue is that many still want a top player (probably because of his draft number) As I said in an earlier post, if he can lift his output to being one of our best 8-15 players, then that would satisfy me at least (and probably the Match Committee) I see him as C+ but I reckon he can get to B. I'd play him in the midfield and leave him there for a good length of time ... Dean did play him there for a number of games and I though he showed a bit. The time period was in the middle of the 2011 season for about 6-8 games. I thought his hands were nice and quick and he got in amongst it a bit ... many won't agree but I know what I saw.

But you're a swinging voter JR (well, that was your reasoning the last time the subject was broached ) The bottom line is that none of us are experts and we all get things horribly wrong - I don't see the big deal in admitting as much. The "I told you so people" never seem to want to tell us the stuff that they get wrong. It's actually quite funny if one is to think about it. Re Watts ... I reckon we all see the same footballer but some have less faith than others and the "expectation factor" is a big influence as well. I can honestly say that I never had great expectations with Watts ... however, I did have big expectations for Scully & Trengove. I reckon the money ruined Scully and Trengove has been dreadfully unlucky with his foot issues.

And I'd happily put my hand up for anything I've ever said. Anyway, you can have the last word.

It took me all of 5 minutes to find your posts which contradicted your "definitive statement" about grading players ... "I don't use B grader, C grader ...." - your words stuie. The search function on this site is easy to use - just type in a few words like ... stuie, b grade, d grade and hey presto, up come the results. .

If the Packers miss the playoffs then McCarthy will come under pressure ... was it 8 coaches who got the boot all on the same day last year or 2 years ago? Regardless, the NFL is all about winning and if a team doesn't win enough, the coach usually goes. The Americans like to "change things up" as a bit of a rule of thumb anyway. There's loads of offensive and defensive coaches as well as college coaches to choose from and it's not as if these coaches aren't remunerated exceptionally well anyway. These sacked coaches can sometimes get a 2nd chance too - not sure how frequent but the ratio is miles ahead of a sport like the AFL.

Big win by the Broncos today and 'Oz' (Osweiler) does look like he can play a bit ... he stands tall like Brady and seems quite assured. Denver will probably go back to Peyton when he's ready but they may not. The Broncos now hold the head to head advantage over the Pats if they both finish on equal wins. The Vikes are just a solid football team and if they get a 2 game break on the Packers they may maintain that advantage (thus, making that week 17 match-up between the Packers and Vikes of less importance) KC, Houston & the Jets are making a run at it and now Washington seems like they may snag the NFC East. Arizona and Cinci just keep winning - both now 9 & 2. The Pats put everyone out of their tips this week (except JV7 who missed out with the Giants) ... 2 points to play for next week (week 13) Leaderboard 5 - Gorgoroth, cowboy_from_ hell 4 - JV7, Georgiou R.R. Martin 2 - Macca 1 - titan_uranus 0 - The rest

Well, you have used the term "B grade" when describing footballers before ... here ... and here is another one. Here's one where you used the term "D grade" (strangely enough, in a previous conversation with me) By the way Stuie, would you call the club maneuvering it's way to getting picks 3 & 7 "innovative"? ... or is that just normal stuff? .

Well if Hogan is to play further out from goal (but not too far) then Weideman may end up playing more games than would otherwise be expected ... 8-14 possible games for Sam as a deep forward with a variety of others to rotate as the 3rd tall forward in a variety of roles as that 3rd tall forward. Dawes, Watts, maybe O-Mac, Frost, vanders and Petracca could fulfill that 3rd tall forward role with any of those 6 to be used in Weideman's role when he's not playing. T-Mac shouldn't be ruled out either - Pedersen is another option. Obviously Frost, vanders, Petracca, Watts, Pedersen & T-Mac can play in a number of other positions as well (mostly back or midfield) It seems that Roos would prefer to have quite a number of tall forward options when we consider that we drafted Hulett as well - Hulett is another who could be rotated through the forward line ... like Weideman, it will depend on whether the Match Committee reckon he's ready or not. Weideman could effectively come into the team as part of a cog of a wheel rather than thrust into a key forward position that he may not be ready for. Same for Hulett ... O-Mac is in the same category but he may be better suited back (if he can force his way into the team of course).

And I generally do give a description of a player ... it's often just easier to grade players with a ranking in terms of list management. As a basic example - A "D" grader is often highly likely to be delisted at any time - especially at a top club. Terlich and M Jones are possibly in that area of grading so therefore, they are close to being delisted. But that's just my opinion. I certainly don't hate either player and I'm certain that both players are doing their best. Anyway, I'll stick to my grading system and if you don't like grading systems then fair enough. We can agree to disagree. Watts = C+ player (sometimes B-) Doesn't go hard enough at the ball or his opponents. Is an excellent kick and can create time for himself Doesn't get enough of the ball considering how well he can read the play When he does read the play well he can be damaging Doesn't block or shepherd enough or with enough intent. Tackles without real intent when he can be bothered tackling He's a good team player but at times he could/should be more selfish and take on his opponents. Doesn't stand up in big games Kicks well to position and often makes good decisions. Presents himself more than many others but doesn't lead to spots where he might get crunched Has no real animal instinct for the sport Can create good options for his teammates with his vision and disposal So, can you see why I've arrived at the C+ rating? He can improve on his strengths but his weaknesses are quite profound and needs a lot of work. He can improve but it's up to Jack. .

So, you could, in theory, convert those words into a letter (B+, C+ etc) It amounts to the same thing. Anyway, you're going to have to put up with those definitive statements - it's what we do. We may as well be standing around in a pub all talking rot - except it's the internet with hundreds of people all viewing what we're writing. Because of those circumstances, anything anyone ever writes can become an argument. If you're offended by my C+ rating of Watts you shouldn't be - I'm not using the letter C as a put-down like others might. He's there because I can't put him into the B class or better (Jones, Viney, Vince etc) I genuinely hope that Watts can become a really good player for us - whether that happens or not is up to Jack.

Footballers play to different levels - coaching accounts for about 10-15% improvement or it can go the other way. A coach can't turn a C+ grader into an A grader but he might be able to turn him into a B grader. I'm talking about a player who is not a draftee - more so 21-23+ year old players.

Again, Watts' overall game is sitting at C+ and sometimes B- ... he'll need to get better and that's up to Jack. If we get a glut of injuries then the level he plays at right now may well be enough to get game time most weeks. However, if he doesn't improve then he ends up in a similar category with a number of others. To be fair, there are quite a few players on our list in the same boat or worse - Grimes, Frost, M Jones, Terlich, Dawes, Spencer, Lumumba, Newton and a number of others including Begg, Kennedy & Melksham. We have a lot on our list with it all before them ... previously, we had an abundance of players who had very little upside and were no better than C- or worse. .

So you use A grade but nothing else ... so how do you describe players who aren't A grade? I'm genuinely interested.