Macca

I get the bit where the Vikes want to get closer for the field goal ... they can't throw it in the field of play (with 13 seconds remaining) but a "sack" isn't counted on - that's worst case scenario. Everything is just about a risk in this sport and I suppose without risk there's no reward. You're not out of it cbh and that's a decent effort by your blokes in Arizona.

I believe the ICC needs to help West Indian cricket ... I've been hearing for 20 years or more that a lot of their young talent is snapped up by American Universities (for their basketball, baseball, American football and track & field programs) If that is true it then largely explains why they've stopped producing superstar cricketers. Those wanting to blame t20 need to understand that the West Indies have been on the decline from the early 90's and they are a shadow of their former selves. Their first class system wouldn't reward the participants with boat loads of cash and those West Indian cricketers concentrating on t20 are not exactly "great" cricketers anyway (Gayle is a top player but the others are average without being stars of the game) So, if the solution lies with doing as much as possible to steer those young talented sportsmen towards cricket, then the ICC offering lucrative cricket scholarships might be the answer ... Bangladesh, Zimbabwe and to a lesser extent Pakistan, Sri Lanka & New Zealand could be part of that program (as well as the best young talent from Afghanistan, Ireland and the other nations that don't have full test status) There's enough money in the sport to get things right. I'm not pouring cold water on your idea TD because I believe it has merit but we need to shore up the existing cricket nations as well ... India, Australia, South Africa & England don't really need any help but all the nations could be involved in some way ... especially with the academies/infrastructure etc etc.

There's only 10 players left from the 2011 list ... add T-Mac to your above list.

Yep, and I can't believe I'm still within striking distance ... the first 2 years saw a lot of us pick up 3 points in week 17 so if that trend continues, it will pay to be in the lead going into the last week. I'm going to have to "win out" in any case because I reckon 11 points or more will win it ... but ya never know.

Thursday night football is another interesting match-up (Vikes @ Arizona) A few other good games but the SNF game with the Pats @ Houston is another vital game. 7mate games are Steelers @ Bengals (early) and Cowboys @ Packers (late) Week 14 games (1 point only) Leaderboard in the comp 7 - Gorgoroth, cowboy_from_ hell 6 - JV7, Georgiou R.R. Martin 4 - Macca 1 - titan_uranus 0 - The rest

Our other forwards will take goals off Hogan when we improve. As it stands, to kick 100 goals in a season (these days) would be an astonishing performance. He might get 80 though ... they'll need to bring the rotations down to about 40 in order to see the dominant "stay at home" forwards again. Hogan spent a lot of his time a long way from the goals last year ... such is the nature of the modern game His creative skills are excellent so he may not always play deep forward anyway.

If there are lengthy bans it will be interesting to see and hear what the players have got to say and whether they will tell all and "spill the beans"so to speak. Of course, anything they might say in the aftermath could well have been said a lot earlier.

It's a tipsters nightmare this year in the EPL Had a look at Leicester's next 6 and we're probably going to find out at the end of that stretch whether they've got a genuine chance or not ... then again, we may not find out such is the nature of this season. vs Chelsea, @ Everton, @ Liverpool, vs Man City, vs Bournemouth then @ Tottenham They get 10 or 11 points out of all that and they're right in it.

Yep, it is obscene amounts of money yet WADA has to scrimp for every cent it can get. We've effectively got a world anti-doping body trying to catch all the world's cheats with a paltry amount of money as funding - it's any wonder that PED use in sport worldwide is out of control. The problem is far far greater than what we can actually see.

The NFC East winner may well suit a team that has the best wild-card record. At the moment it's the Vikings which would mean the Packers would then face Seattle (if the standings remained the same as they are now) That week 17 game between the Packers & Vikings could have another new meaning to it Yeah, the Pats faltering has changed everything in the AFC ... I can see New England dropping a couple more with that banged up offense. Seattle are the most dangerous team in the NFC - they can win anywhere and won't be overawed in any way. Wilson has really stepped things up - he's always been a talent and seems to really like pressure.

Yep, a can of worms but that doesn't bother me at all. If it took another 5 years it wouldn't bother me ... PED use in sport can't be just put aside because it may spoil or ruin people's fun or appreciation of sport. The fight against PED use in sport needs to get stronger. My wish would be having a number of wealthy benefactors throwing hundreds of millions of dollars in WADA's direction. WADA needs more teeth ... I read somewhere that Texas A&M University raised over 740 million in donations in 2013 but WADA's income for that same year was just over 26 million. Yet WADA attracts unfair criticism for not being ahead of the game ... how can they be with that paltry amount of funding?

Well there seems to be some conflicting opinions here whether ASADA or WADA can or will pursue the coaches and the support staff if the players are found guilty and given lengthy bans. There's also some differing opinions on whether the players will be found guilty at all ... I'm sitting on the fence because any opinion I might have on the outcome would be a genuine guess. The "comfortable satisfaction" bit is rather ambiguous in my eyes ... this is a unique case with a lot of grey areas that we still don't know about. I've said all along that if the players are found guilty then they should cop lengthy bans. I've a strong inkling that the public will finally find out about all the details when the verdict is handed down. A much clearer picture will emerge and we'll all be able to make sense of it all - well, that's what I'm hoping for anyway.

Which makes one wonder why they didn't go after Hird when many see him as one of the ringleaders (or the ringleader) Maybe they just didn't have enough evidence then but might do in the future? As for the rest of your post - it's a little difficult to find a timeline on all the drug offences that have ever been committed so to say that it's always been done simultaneously (for the same offences) may or may not be true. Opinions are one thing but are you saying that it is an absolute fact that it's always been done simultaneously ... or just as far as you know? Just now WADA are going after the whole Russian track & field program (and those involved) after certain athletes from that program have previously been charged and banned. The Russian walker who won gold at the London Olympics is one such example. I'm fairly sure there were a few others that have been done for drugs in the recent past that were part of that program. What we're talking about here are the coaches and support staff allegedly overseeing and supervising a PED injection program for the players at the EFC. If that is true and the information is made public then it's not going to look good for anyone involved there at the time. So, can these people be charged at a later date if the above is true? I would hope so.

Yet bing181 has intimated that that may only occur if there is new evidence ... again, I'm not taking sides nor do I have a definitive opinion on what might happen in the aftermath (mainly because I've envisaged all sorts of outcomes - including a not guilty verdict) What I'm reasonably confident of is that the proverbial will hit the fan if the players are found guilty and receive lengthy bans ... careers will in some cases be over or irreparably damaged and there will be fallout because of that ... also, in that scenario we could assume that many of the players will open up about what actually happened whereas previously they've been rather vague and not forthcoming ... it may end up being an everyman for himself situation. Let's not forget that 22 of the 34 are no longer at the EFC. Again, I'm only expressing my opinion on the proviso that the players cop close to the maximum penalty or indeed receive the maximum penalty - which may or may not happen of course. In other words ... worst case scenario will have it's consequences. You and bing181 have both expressed the view that the players will cop hefty penalties and if you're both right, it won't end there. It can't do (in my opinion)

The top 5 all picked up 2 points this week with a few of us breathing a sigh of relief that the Panthers got up ... Leaderboard in the comp 7 - Gorgoroth, cowboy_from_ hell 6 - JV7, Georgiou R.R. Martin 4 - Macca 1 - titan_uranus 0 - The rest

I take it you haven't softened your stance that the 34 players will be copping lengthy bans ... I neither agree nor disagree with your evaluation nor do I have a "wish" for a particular outcome. I simply want the truth to come out and if the players are guilty then I believe they should receive lengthy bans ... it's the whole guilt or comfortable satisfaction bit that has many people wondering what the actual outcome will be. You seem quite sure though of the penalties coming their way. One thing I do reckon ... if there are lengthy bans as you've indicated, there may well be widespread repercussions. Anyone associated with the injection program might come under scrutiny ... it stands to reason.

I suppose that comes under the "they'll get him somehow" scenario.

So Hird walks away scot-free if the players cop hefty bans. Doesn't seem right ... reckon they'll get him somehow.

So what happens with Hird, Charters, Robinson, Alavi et al? Surely they'll need to be held to account if the players receive hefty bans*. *Some are suggesting the players will receive hefty bans.

Maybe 'bing181' will know the exact next course the saga will take us if the players are found guilty and cop bans. Or someone else here might know for sure. I'd be assuming that ASADA could then lay charges against the coaches and other people involved et al and a similar process would be followed. Again, the AFL tribunal could lay penalties if they see fit and if not, WADA could appeal to CAS again. Or it may be a WADA/CAS case straight off ... I stand corrected on all that though. What we do know is that WADA have gone after coaches and doctors before and there's been some very hefty penalties handed out ... here's the up to date list of those who have received those penalties.

All going swimmingly from my point of view ... even to the point where I can now quote a post on my phone without having to go to the full site. Again, thank you to all that run this site and moderate it ... you're all doing a sterling job and keep up the good work. The new look is great.

You may be right LH but the consequences of the players being found guilty and rubbed out (if they are found guilty and rubbed out) will be far reaching you'd think. Let's just say that the above scenario did happen and the players copped decent bans ... we would then expect those in charge at Essendon (at the time) to then start feeling the heat - so where does it all start and finish and who is immune? In the long run it won't just be the players who take the rap (again, if they are found guilty and rubbed out) Those in positions of responsibility must have known what was going on - we're almost certain that the players went off the premises to the anti-aging clinic to receive these hundreds of injections and the "support staff" could have been more involved than we think ... and if the injections involved PED's then the "naïve" card can't really be played by anyone - who is going to believe them? I'm looking at all this from a practical viewpoint without any bias or favour.

And if we were to lose Goodwin for a time then so be it ... as for Melksham*, he's just one player and he's not all that flash anyway (so far) Goodwin will still be an unproven rookie coach and if he was rubbed out then we'd just have to find someone else ... and there would be any number of suiters for the position. I'm not at all worried either way. Whatever will be will be and the club is always bigger than any individual person. We're a much better run club these days so you'd reckon we'd have a decent contingency plan anyway. *I'm willing to bet that if Essendon were allowed replacement players then so would we be allowed a replacement player. That is if the players are found guilty and rubbed out. I'm not convinced of guilt or innocence yet but I lean towards guilt.

They may have changed or tightened the rules but the same basic principles could be applied regardless of when the rules were breached. WADA went after that Italian doctor involved in the cycling doping scandal long after he first transgressed. Hird and a few others can still be pursued you'd reckon and if those others can be pursued then where does it stop? There's no cut off point otherwise Armstrong would never have got done.

Couldn't those in charge at Essendon be pursued by WADA after the CAS case is over and done with? ... and might one of those in charge include Goodwin? WADA Publishes List Of Banned Coaches And Support Staff For Doping Violations Surely at least Hird, Charters, Alavi & Robinson would be charged at a later date if the players are found guilty ... even if the players are found not guilty then WADA should still go after the perpetrators (if WADA are confident that they can place the PED's at the EFC)