Demon Dynasty

And thats why I left Jones out. You are right he aint quick but he aint as slow as the others.

Hec....had to have a Jim Beam and lie down after that one. Was expecting a classic RR bake prior to opening

Watching this mid field, especially versus some of what else is on offer in the 8 etc, i dunno. I reckon we had it better when Wells and Alves were running round there in the 70's lol. Probably my memory is shot... but it just feels real bad atm. Can you remember a period when we were in such a state yourself? Not saying we've ever had amazing set ups but jeez.... pretty soul destroying atm,

There's life in the old Demon yet! Reckon our membership would've surpassed last year by now if we had won a few of our early ones or at least gone down fighting tooth & nail. Anyway, fingers crossed for Sunday. Off field that's another piece of good news at least. Keep it goin fellas.

I think Dunn positions OK when the ball is coming into the forward 50. But he appears to me to have no idea where to go when the ball is on its way out. Once again, a player who doesn't read defence. Whether it's his own deficiency or that of his coaches I remain unsure but I think it's the latter, because he's not alone in that regard.

Agreed. The opposition has to be pretty close when they take possession....or of a similar pace for Dunn or pretty much anyone in our forward 50 to lay a tackle lol. Not too much closing speed around them there 'Demonland' hills atm in a general sense eh

I could be wrong about this but I have a feeling within 5-7 years there will be no way to differentiation between inside & outside mids - you will have to play both roles on demand by the coach or you will struggle at elite level.

Just a thought.

I guess anything's possible given the way the game evolves now days, although i think the likelihood of finding them in a numbers sense is pretty slim in order to offer dual skills to all clubs through the middle. In the genre' you're talking i'm thinking elite such as Mitchel, Ablett, Judd and maybe Chappy. Probably a few other elites (who are both elite inside and outside) you might think of but i'm guessing they most likely wouldn't be gifted in both areas in the way these four are. So i guess what i'm saying is, you might be right, but whether there would be enough gifted players offering both elite skills inside and out, i'd have my doubts at this point (based on past experience anyway).

Dunn was pick 14 and has had 8 years on the list. I guess you were done playing players on potential arent we?

Take it up with the Club on Petterd. They might learn something from you or conversely....

Its a hair split.

Playing Magner, Couch and Moloney together gives me an impression of ssllooww.

Here's a thought Moloney pulls up sore pre match and they play Couch......might be insurance.

We are slow .....or bumbling....regardless of who we put in there ATM....with the exception of Jones maybe. You've left Jones out and i realise he's being used on the ball a fair bit as well but i feel he can offer us something of a pace change up if used well. Not saying he's super quick but his agility, burst speed and quicker/more precise decision making (ie., quick kick into the forward 50 if needed) is a rung or 2 above the other 3 atm.

I'd rather hit the opposition hard with tough hard nosed mids through the middle anyway at this point (given what's on offer for us as an alternative right now... ie., pretty much Zilch!) and stick it to them in the body on body with these three plus Jonesy rotating, than get smacked both on the inside and outside as we are at present having hulks like Morton running through there or Tappy/Trenners who have absolutely no idea in the middle (lost sheep). We need someone with genuine pace/agility/speed/clean/quick ball handling for sure....but until we uncover them, we gotta stop the bleeding and give our boys a slightly better chance to stem the flow....and give our defense a bit more time to set up....and a decent rest once in a while. Our defense is getting pummeled every week due to our crap performance in the middle (among other crap performances around the ground lol) atm.

1. But Dunn and Couch play the same roles? Hardly mate. Pretty sure Dunn runs along the wing alot as does Morton, difference is Dunn is not scared of the ball, the opposition, the crowd, seagulls....

2. Ahhhhh he leads the way when you compare him to the rest of our players at the moment though, still our best chance of laying a tackle anywhere in the forward half

Totally agree. Doesn't lay many but he's one of the few that does....and not only that....when he does he at least sticks a decent tackle, unlike most others in our forward line such as Green, Petterd, Davey, Watts and Martin (when they're in there) who often get brushed aside in the tackle or lay a neck high tackle (which doesn't involve too much body on body.....soft way out IMO). Maybe Howe the only other who's able to actually get his hands on the opposition and stick a decent tackle in the forward line recently.

Not only that, if you watch Dunn's bodywork and positioning in the forward line, he has an ok read on the play and a very capable contested mark using his body pretty well in the contest. With the exception of Clark, uses the limited opportunities given in our forward line reasonably well compared to our other non-existent/inconsistent forwards. And no i'm not saying Dunn's the answer up forward long term, nor a stellar performer for us in a comparative sense to other club's top forwards by any means. But, until we find someone better....he's a must have. And as i've said many times before, one of the few players who can kick a roost goal from 50 or just outside in the team from a set shot. There's few others who can apart from Howe and Jones. He also doesn't take any crap....which doesn't make anyone an automatic "in" i realise, but at least he gives back as good as he gets. Downside is he's pretty slow paced and sluggish as forwards go but then he has plenty of mates lol.

Would have thought Dunn would keep Morton out not Couch

Without question....

Although, this is the MFC we're talking about. So i'm pretty sure Dunn will still keep Couch out...with Morton offering such 'potential' amazing closing speed, sure handling, super agility and great tackling skills....as well as brute strength in the contested footy stakes, he can't be overlooked and should be given as many chances as needed to prove himself i reckon

Agree we are far too slow with moving the ball on with decision making compared to the more experienced teams.

Guys like Bate and even Grimes are slow to hit up a teammate on first option. Indecision helps opposition teams close down our options. And adds to the pressure and turn overs.

You see the Cats, Blues move on quickly and deliver on the move. Time and again we seem to take the mark, go to ground, get up, get distance from the mark, then decide.

It's one of the many aspects under the heading "nous" that our team lacks.

Lets not go there! I realise all teams turn the ball over...but jeez....sure made some bad clangers lately. Hate to be a forward looking for decent delivery into our forward line too

I guess the only way is up from here given the inexperience factor....gulp!

Another comment he made during that interview rings true for us and it was about Freo getting a win against the Cats helped with player buy in to the new approach he brings. The loses we are having must make it harder to get buy in from our players, it's human nature and will make Neelds task all the harder. Let's hope a win this week get's things moving in the right direction.

Yep....i think he was asked something along the lines of "what was the main focus for you when taking on the new team?". And his response went something like "The biggest key for me is without doubt get a few early wins on the board to fuel the belief factor".

One of the reasons we desperately needed the win against Brisbane first up IMO, especially given the trip that was up next. Freo have the luxury of 'genuine' home games to ensure they're at least a reasonable chance of winning a few early ones anyway, plus a much advanced/more senior playing list of course which showed up against the gritty win against the Cats.

One of the most honest interviews i've heard in a while from a senior "rated" AFL coach. Of course he wont be giving away his most guarded philosophies over the airwaves but it's still quite a good listen for anyone wanting an insight from an experienced AFL coach.

Ross just calling it as he sees it. And he's actually a pretty likeable funny guy to listen to.

Says he has given Mark Neeld a bit of support as well.

Now nothing i say is new to any footy punter out there, but a very interesting point ,and where i think we have failed this year big time so far, "move the ball quickly or die versus the press" or just in general. An aspect to St Kilda's game he says he started trying to improve on last year and no doubt realised after seeing the Pies enforce their press in the GF...twice lol.

Another point he makes note of is the play on percentage. Many other teams are playing on much more often than we are (obviously). Moving the ball with precision and using pacey outsiders as well around the clearances. . 2 to 3 lightning handball gives/receives (or a short pass if in the clear following first 1 or 2 handballs) until they find an outside player to run and carry or belt the ball forward (quickly) to a contest.

We are basically the opposite from what i've seen so far. We don't play on much after a mark. We're unsure, UNSKILLED and SLOOOW (both in decision making, ball use and pace/burst speed) around the clearances and pretty much any congestion. Not to mention the fact that we look lost/disinterested and very slow (or just physically incapable) in pressuring our opponents when we don't have the ball.

I just hope the doggies aren't as quick with their ball movement and leg speed as they once were (generally) around the ground. Otherwise we're more than likely in for a world of pain on Sunday (again).

List needs a pretty big injection of highly skilled quick ball users (generally) and an injection of outside pace with similar ball use skills IMO (among other requirements like a top line mid or 2) if we're to see any substantial improvement inside 5 to 7 years. No doubt Neeld & co. will be addressing this as part of their filtering/planning etc.

The Interview

Part 1

http://www.sen.com.au/audioplayer/Audio/Fremantle-Coach-Ross-Lyon-Part-1/4347

Part 2

http://www.sen.com.au/audioplayer/Audio/Fremantle-Coach-Ross-Lyon-Part-2/4348

Agreed. He definitely is a strong leader, not sure if you noticed or not but on saturday i saw several times him running up to the middle of the ground yelling instructions etc. to the midfielders before each bounce and giving them a "razz up" and then running back to the forward line.

Its a shame it didn't work but he definitely has fire in the belly!

I didn't but i'm going to watch the replay if i can handle the pain again, so i'll look for it. I sure noticed that amazing effort/assist on the flank though in that third quarter when the chips were down. Team lifting stuff....at least i thought it might lift them anyway

He's a big positive so far that's for sure. I'm thinking that as a supporter in such grim times, i can take some small positives out of his effort so far (and that of Jonesy, Magner, Howe and some odd others) and maybe i just go support them as such and it'll give me some hope and i'll feel a tad better about going. Like i'm there for the individuals for as long as the team (as a collective) aren't gelling etc.

Maybe the cheer squad could start to crank up the support for individuals who are performing too with targeted chanting and specific signs on the banners (if they aren't already). Try and bolster them for the efforts they're showing.

Currently watching FOX FOOTY classic game of Melbourne Brisbane Round 3 2011.

One Mitch Clark is playing CHF start of the 4th quarter with 23 touches 10 marks 9 inside 50 and 4 or 5 scoring assists. Honestly I was under somewhat of an impression he was far better in the ruck but he has done literally everything I hope for this year. Breaking packs, bringing the ball to the ground and even more so being a presence.

Watching this really makes me feel like this yea could be fun!!

This is key to me. Particularly with a young inexperienced team and a poor mid. We need to get him into the contest as much as possible (higher up the field) and to bring others into the game with assists (hopefully) and bringing the ball to ground for our small forwards to crumb ...oops... haven't got any of those atm have we...damn it

As a former Rugby union player i couldnt agree more

Low and hard with desire can make up for strength

"Hit em hard ,Hit em low and if they get up againhit them again"

Freo, way to go!

Hit ‘em real hard, send ‘em down below

Oh Freo, give ‘em the old heave ho

We are the Freo Dockers!

No, it's nothing to do with size or strength. It's about wanting to lay the tackle (desire) and the technique to do it and maybe as others have pointed out not knowing where they should be positioned, over thinking the game.

I realise there's technique/desire etc. I also realise stats can be inaccurate lol. And i also know it depends on who's tackling who....but a stat from last Saturday's match against the Toiges FWIW.....

Team Weight (average, per player)

Tigers: 86.5kg

Demons: 88.9kg

He just might be our version of Cam Mooney. No coincidence that they eventually lost their 'hand bag' status during the years that followed. Not saying it was solely the result of Cam alone, but no doubt had a fair influence on the change.

Mitch is a natural at CHF for mine albeit i think he'd still give a fair fist of it (and has so far) no matter where he's asked to play. But i strongly feel this is where he'll shine even more for us, and be most effective from a team point of view, when played there.

One player that has the 'mongrel' in him that's for sure and would even make a good 'solo' captain IMO.

Same as Old Dee, been to the GF to see us flogged.

I was shattered this week and the week before and the one before.

Maybe you and old dee should go talk to the players and tell them what it feels like.

Doesn't seem to be much love lost on their playing mates from what we've seen dished up so far (with the exception of a few). Look at the non-response the players had when Grimes got smashed by Waters last week. So i doubt whether many are giving much thought to the supporters at this point.

Whatever spirit was at the club last year, and there at least appeared to be something there (at least up till 186)....it's well and truly gone this year from where i sit.

I agree with most of the points you've raised, but how could we possibly have overused the ball and end up with 150 less possessions?

How can Howe be the only player over 20 possessions?

How can we have 8 players with 10 or less disposals and another 3 with only 11 disposals? That is half the team who had 11 or less disposals. WTF are they doing out there?

Dr., i'm questioning this as well.

So Neeld & co. are saying learning a new game style/plan from scratch is tough. Ok. I can see that....to a point. It's going to test any players who were under the previous coach for most of his tenure sure. It would take time to get things right and make the new directives/skills/drills/set ups 2nd nature. It would take time to implement a fitness program that brings the players to a level needed to pull off the new requirements effectively, on a consistent basis.

So lets say at the very least 2 to 3 years for some who are still young, inexperienced and learning the basics of the game, let alone a completely new style/structure. Maybe 3 to 4 yars to build a decent AFL tank. And for the seniors, possibly even more difficult using the "old dog" principle. For the new guys, like Magner, Clarke who are starting afresh with Neeld & Co., maybe a little easier. Of course this is pure speculation. Every individual's reponse and ability to cope with change is no doubt different as would be their likelihood of successful conversion/change and output/performance.

But then there's attitude, intensity at the ball and ball carrier when you don't have it. Personal pride. Pride in the jumper, passion and self motivation that comes from within, regardless of what might inspire some.

I just want to know where that's gone? Were the wins last year a fluke? The players must have gotten themselves up somehow in order to win, especially some of the thumpings we handed out where we put our foot on the neck of the opponent and didn't let up till the final siren (ok only a few occasions...but it WAS there).

So are we talking here about the ability of the coach/coaching staff to motivate, inspire....incentivise?

I know Neeld says our moral is fine. But really, apart from a fair effort in the first half against mediocre opposition in Brisbane and Richmond, i haven't seen any fight, spirit or ferocious attack on the ball in a "team" sense. Individual efforts sure, Clarke, Jonesy, Magner, Howe (this week) along with a few reasonable camios from others.

But to win Neeld needs the support and backing of the entire senior group. And to this point, at least on the surface viewing it as an outsider, i would have to say Neeld has possibly either lost them OR....a few are refusing (or unwilling to this point) to back him/his teams' direction either individually or collectively as a small group.

Maybe they have their noses out of joint from the "young captain" announcements? Again pure speculation. But the degree of sub standard performances from most within the senior group (at least those that have hit the park) is bewildering. Jonesy, Rivers the exceptions to this point.

I have no doubt our list is poor as it now stands, but there's been some pretty average lists over the years (in many a team) as judged by the pundits, but in some cases, they still manage to get themselves up for a match and at least make a fist of it. They might go down, but they go down fighting and never give in.

I haven't witnessed this fighting spirit in a team sense so far this year, in what should have been 2 very 'winnable' matches (at least prior to the season starting anyway).

Maybe Neeld IS on the right track and just needs plenty of time and clever recruiting/list changes.

But IMO one aspect or sign of solid coach is his ability to inspire and motivate the playing group and get them playing hard nosed, competitive, desperation football across all lines and play a game out right to the end, no matter where we might be on the scoreboard or what we're asking of them game plan/style wise.

So far i haven't witnessed this for more than maybe 1 half of footy, and that against mediocre opposition.

When i start seeing this from the "team" (not just a few individuals) for close to an entire 4 quarters against teams who sit outside the 8 (and the same but maybe with less effective results against the top 8), i'll start believing that Neeld & his team are at least moving this club in the right direction.

It's only my view, and nothing i say will make an ounce of difference to what happens at the MFC, Neeld or the players, but if you don't have motivation, inspiration, desperation and the team playing for EACH OTHER and the jumper....then i don't give a toss what game plans, styles, structures, fitness regimes (new rookies) etc you put in place. You'll still get a sub optimal result against quality opposition who find this extra "intangible" almost week in and week out even IF you are successful putting in the new regime and the players are generally able to stick to it.

Sure, top teams become top teams as a result of the best structures, fitness regimes, coaches, facilities, recruiting and development staff etc. But even with the best pre-match training and preparation. a coach still has to motivate them and make sure they (and he) find a way to win on match day.

It's my view that Neeld might have to water some "ideals" and expectations down a tad (time lines etc) that he started off with when starting his career in order to find some success with this group in his first year.

My challenge to Neeld (and the playing group) for what remains of the first half of this season...

FIND A WAY TO WIN

or at the very least, fight our matches out to the final siren and never say die!

The most embarrassing will come in Geelong.

I'm not so sure NSC

Kardinia Park (Simonds Stadium or whatever they call it now) is one of the narrowest grounds in the AFL if my memory serves me right. So at least the boys wont have to run as far around the boundaries. Might last 2 and a half quarters or even 3 on this ground!!

Nice, Sloonie. I did have a chuckle at that. I knew that statement would bite me in the ass. I think Bex and a couch should come with a melbourne membership.

A bottle of Jim Beam and a blindfold mightn't hurt either. Can someone wake me up when we've uncovered or recruited a gun midfielder or two please. The losses might not be quite as painful if we aren't gettin smacked there pretty much every week, especially against mediocre opposition. I think they refer to it as 'hope' or somethin

I let you work through the vagaries of crud vs spud Rusty. Never the let the real issues cloud your focus on the periphery.

Well when you've got about 1/3rd of the team that consists of that level of player.....i guess it/they will come under discussion once in a while. But thanks. Happy to cover all aspects of sub par performances when it raises it's ugly head around here...which unfortunately is quite a bit of the time lately.

P.S. Looks like you're enjoying some brain numbing Jim Beam (or wateva ur poison) as much as i am atm!

So you take a potential midfielder out and put in a forward. Good thinking.

You are really splitting hairs between Morton and Dunn. But to be fair Dunn did more up forward in 1 qtr in junk time than Morton did for the game.

If the sub was the problem to our performance I would be rapt. Its about issue 40 that we have to deal in the list of priorities.

Yep. You got the 40th issue right. But to be the best, even when fielding a sub par team like we did today, you still gotta leave no stone unturned....in any area...in any aspect of the game!

As to that first part about Morton being a "potential midfielder". I didn't put Morton in to start with and nor would i under any circumstances ....ever....unless half the list came down with a case of chicken pox or somethin. And if we had a few decent options, i would pick them above Dunn also. But I reckon Dunn would probably do a better (albeit still crappy and only marginally better) job if he was in the middle if asked in a head to head with Morton (Lucifer forbid!!).

And one more thing....i'm going to forgive you. It's Saturday night so like me, you must be on the [censored]. You'd have to be to consider Morton as a "potential" anything, let alone a potential mid fielder....

Bottoms up Rhino!

I just want to see him get seriously mad..and scare the bejeezus out of this bunch of nuff-nuffs.

Im curious as to what spin will eminate at the weekly media love-in.

I write this as I watch the Suns play decent footy....god we're in trouble

And just hit the front!!!

It's called inspiration. they're playing hard running, risk taking, play on at all costs, contested footy. And that's all you can ask at such a young age from most of the GC boys with such inexperience. McKenna's had more time than Neeldy i realise. But unless Neeldy wakes up in the next 6 to 8 weeks, realises our limitations (as we now stand list wise and keeps persisting with his plan to fit a square peg ie., our playing list, into his round hole).....then the future with this current list (until/unless he can radically change it to bring in the personnel he needs to fit into the square peg)....looks pretty f*%n grim.

P.S.....GC....led by an absolute super star. The cake...and the mid field icing all in one! What a fricken star.

Or hope that GWS delist Junior...

I had a dream that Gold Coast delisted Junior!!!

We exempt Neeld from blame for the debacle but we bake Royal when he has absolute dross (excluding Jones) to work with.

Demonland at its best.

Who said we've totally exempted Neeld? Haven't seen anyone say that on this thread till you. Are you a mind reader now Rhino??

The argument's more complex than "Just Neeld" and i can't see what's wrong with putting the spotlight on the individual charged with job of looking after the area of the game that we've failed in severely so far this year, especially against middle of the road opponents in Brisbane and Richmond.

From what's been dished up so far, it appears we've gone backwards in this area this year. Should've been capable of at least maintaining the mid field at some level of competitiveness for 3 to 4 quarters against mediocre (or sub par) opposition.

Rhino....at his best

What rubbish. We needed to do more in the midfield. Morton had his chance and failed. Dunn has spent nearly 8 years on the list doing that.

Don't get your knickers in a knot Rhino. Of course the mid field was crunched. Even blind freddy (and you) could have seen that.

What i'm talking about is a decision to play Morton in the starting 21. Hasn't played all year. Was the obvious sub IMO.

Without a quality mid field of course the forwards don't get the feed they need and nor do our mids contribute to the score board as often as they should and as often as you would expect from a quality mid field (if we had one)

I didn't choose the players on the list, i didnt choose the team today and nor am i saying Dunn's a gun or something. Just saying, with what we served up on the park today, Dunn should've been in the starting 21, not as sub.

I'm not the only one to question how we've managed the sub this year either.