Demon Dynasty

Chanel 7....going in for scans on elbow

Hogan injured now.... Wth

I hear u Dappa but JKH has managed to muster a pretty strong lynch mob of his own with no Watts factor involved and personally i felt Watts hand balled the "King of whipping boys" mantle over about 18 months ago! That doesnt mean he wasnt STILL a whipping until his departure!

Sorry but he has been whipped in his own right for quite some time now. Watts had nothing to do with it. No closer to looking like a goer at AFL level than he did 28 matches ago.

Early days but I have yet to see anything that convinces me Weids will be a gun as predicted by Macca a few years back or have a significant impact at AFL level other than a few reasonable camio matches if he gets a run at it. Looks like a potential VFL reasonable quality player but AFL might be a step too far. Maybe this year will prove me wrong. Hope I'm proven wrong as we sure could do with another decent tall forward to assist Hulk or fill in if injured. Lets hope he can begin to show something over the next season or two at AFL level.

Has either player had a full pre-season McQueen? Tim Smith missed I think yes? How about Weids? My vague memory tells me he has I think. Should be better prepared. I would take Tim every time if he had the pre-season behind him. Starting to get a tad long in the tooth now though if we have to wait till 2019 for a full pre-season look at Smithy.

Not an expert TGR. Surgeon most likely provides advice into said player's wellbeing and likely recovery but surely the EPM would have the ultimate say in setting a recovery program and monitoring the ongoing progress of injured player/s with the input of physios / physician etc. I doubt the physios would set the recovery program/amount of load etc, even though they may have a significant input and say in certain aspects of what preferred/tried methods might assist in a full & successful recovery. Surely the buck would stop with the EPM in conjunction with the coach after various inputs and advice from the others you mentioned I would have thought.

If he did?

I assume he did that with a full pre-season (or close to it) though Nasher. Players rarely have a substantial impact if they miss a decent part or all of a pre-season, and certainly less so if they are starting as late as Jack 'might' IF he gets back when we are being told Is likely.

All player loads and recovery loads are tightly controlled by the fitness / recovery team now DV. The Players stepping outside and doing their own recovery regime etc is old school thinking. Buck stops with Misson in terms of when/how much/how little/methods etc. Coaching staff are very much in the hands of the Elite performance manager's view (and club doctor) on all such matters once a significant injury and/or health issue is diagnosed.

Wasn't Clarke also impacted from similar at one stage that kept him off the park for a while? Obviously had many other issues but seem to recall this was also part of the mix.

Not looking good though Dom. No pre-season means a very average year at best IF he gets back with enough time to impact. A massive blow on our prospects. The decision to bring him back now looks like a disaster. Misson is the last of the Neeld appointments (correct me if wrong). Time to look elsewhere me thinks.

Viney's been out for a mighty long time now. Looking more and more like another Trengove issue. Viney's facia was mis-managed IMO coming out and training / playing again way too early from many reports. Yet another nail in Misson's coffin. Not sure how he is still there.

I agree but they still exploited us by going tall up forward and outdoing us generally in crucial contested marking throughout the match which resulted directly in conversions for goal. And we are focussing on defence here. The mid-field is another entire topic altogether. And now with Viney out we are yet again, on the back foot big time here. Viney is easily our best grunt player through the mid-field now and is a massive blow.

Exploiting our medium to small defence which struggles against a genuine tall forward or more Collingwood exploited our medium to small defence and really highlighted its weakness in the last round. We will definitely need T-Mac to play a significant role here and IMHO an emerging (Fit) Frost will be the key as to whether we hold up against taller opposition forward lines (or ones that can become that way when a tall ruck pushes forward for extended periods), allowing T-Mac more time to play forward. Personally I think Frost has slightly more "potential" upside here than O-Mac when fully match fit due to his leaping / spoiling / counter potential but, like O-Mac, there are periods in matches where he just doesn't find his opponent quickly enough or tends to get lost in transitions and messy rebounds. I think teams tend to run through and look for whoever is on O-Mac / Wagner as our weak points at present and try and exploit them. Every club is usually going to have at least one or two so nothing new here and no offence intended. These are just ours until now. Hopefully an improvement from Frost and O-Mac this year, as well as playing horses for courses and going extra tall when we need to against genuinely tall forward set ups, will help counter this. Max will no doubt need to drop back occasionally also if teams get on a roll and will hopefully have the pre-season in him this year that will allow him to do so more often as well as cover / block the likes of Cox when opposition extra tall rucks are pushing forward. Lever's intercept marking and ability to read the play will no doubt add another layer and ensure we are not just known for our ability to counter quickly. Our biggest asset though will be keeping our two most dangerous counter defenders on the park and fit. I can't see many teams being able to contain both an in form Hibberd and Hunt on either flank unless they aren't on the park. If we get 90%+ home & away matches from these two I say we definitely make finals. Anything around 70% of game time or less (from one or Lucifer forbid, both) and I reckon we will most likely miss. They are that crucial to our game style and set up. Fingers crossed. A ceremony, cleansing the club rooms, players, and the club from NSC should be high on the agenda!

Leadership comes in many forms Sergeant. In this case the majority felt their views were strong enough they needed to intervene and act. Regardless ...the boat has long and truly sailed on this particular boot which had the slipper put into it and is now sunk! R.I.P. and may it never surface again!

You are conveniently overlooking the main reason why a large group of players didn't want to do this particular camp. You have completely missed the boat ....again...and again ....and again....and DV is obviously an ex special forces Op Boss. Don't question his knowledge of all things military, especially the value of said camp please!

I'm not seeing things that much differently on most of those points DV. But we'll agree to disagree on the benefits or otherwise of said camp. Certainly not against the right type of camp though and I'm pretty sure the players wouldn't be either. The press chooses to overlook this important point however. Where we have differed from most other clubs in the last half century also is the inability to produce/attract champion players and keep them during their prime. Other clubs, with maybe the Bulldogs the exception, have usually attracted/produced a sprinkling of them which can often be the difference during home & away and finals also.

Mental toughness comes in many forms. Again, a camp that impacts the ability of a team to cover ground, in a game where running and covering ground is crucial, surely wouldn't be high on any AFL team's agenda (or any sport that involves a signifant amount of two way running). Plenty of other camps and team building getaways that can do that without the impact on legs. Pretty sure the playing group isn't adverse to tough effort and team work in pre-season training or other pre-season camps/team toughness building (boot style). They just don't like what last year's camp did to their legs pre-season (mostly), is what I heard. Many complained of being just too heavy down low after the camp with not enough running capacity. Venturing more towards a NRL type preferred outcome. Bellamy & Co may well benefit from that style of camp! Horses for courses DV.

I was not saying we should drop our effort / output in anyway during the season or pre-season training DV. I was pointing out the merits of whether that particular camp is the one we should be investing in given the injuries apparently suffered during mostly non-football related drills during its completion last year (according to reports/here say). And it wasn't just the injuries. Many players complained that they felt "leg weary / and heavy in the legs" afterwards, leading in to the start of the season proper after that camp. It wasn't the amount of work they were complaining about it was what the drills did to them leg wise and their inability to cover ground / spread / run both ways etc that had them concerned about going again. So Caro (and anyone else potting the boys for shying away from a hard work ethic etc etc) can go smoke a pipe!

My understanding is we suffered a number of injuries pre season from that camp last year that impacted on early season results/form. The players were more than happy to do a camp....just not that one. As long as they're brought up to elite AFL match fitness levels i couldn't give a rats whether they went or not. That's what Misson is being paid a handsome sum for. They failed to run out a number of matches and went missing in quarters last year so the camp didn't work then and it wouldnt have been any better had they done it again this time. I would rather they spend the time working on forward 50 entries, set plays, goal kicking and forward pressure work etc.

Sorry but in the 5 decades I've been watching It's usually injuries that define our year TGR. They are footballers not soldiers

I'm afraid even winning won't matter unless we make it deep into a finals campaign UH. Along with the Aints we are the AFL's (inc. fans & media) easiest whipping boy.

It's an off week. Just digging the barrel

Clever Moon. Wondering if this was a re-hashed lampoon. An old Labor leader / PM comes to mind also ?