Demon Dynasty

I would hope / assume so SW. I also hope they were made very very clear to JW along with the consequences if they weren't met. I also hope these very strict (off field?) standards are applied to all of the more senior players (eg, 150ish plus gamers)....and adhered to as strongly going forward if they are seen to be under-performing (both off and on the track)

Jnr with all due respect, we might actually have just as much chance of winning the big one if the good Dr. were in charge, regardless of his views, as nothing that's been tried so far (with some reputable coaches / ideas / methods / support staff / recruits etc thrown in along the way) has seen us win a flag in over half a century. There are bigger, much more deep seated problems inherent in the culture of this club, way beyond the individual efforts or lack thereof of one Mr J Watts, that has prevented us from becoming a successful AFL club since 64' IMO. These inherent issues will probably remain, certainly well after Watts has packed up his Gladstone bag and taken up a new locker elsewhere and probably well after the current coaching crew and the current administration have also moved on and a new generation of so called 'hopefuls' take over the reigns, for they (and we as a collective) have so far failed to address them.

It is my understanding that that is correct JJC. He is also No.2 in the AFL for hitting targets coming inside 50. Aside from intercepts and pressure acts / effective tackles i50, I would argue this would be close to the top of the list on any coaching dept's list of must haves when considering KPI results from match review data. The question I would love to ask the LG is this ... 1: Was JW brought before them sometime shortly after his Byron Bay (Party/Poor Prep?) saga pre season and given an ultimatum, then failed to meet their expectations by seasons' end (pr some other time line) and was then shown the door??..OR.... 2. Was he brought before them at the end of the season, and without any prior warning notice from the LG (and the either rubber stamped or pre-sanctioned by the coach/FD) just told "sorry mate you failed to prepare as best we feel you could have (pre season and/or post injury) and we don't want you here anymore cause you're training standards & prep are a bad influence on the youngsters here!!?? Maybe GNF can shed some light here?? ....

Connors on SEN in next hour or two. Probably a Cats deal

I don't think he rates as importantly BZ but i certainly agree with you on that final point. Goody & the FD are going to look quite the ass if we don't perform and make finals next year without Watts in the make up.

The point is not so much the timing, it's how they have aired the dirt in the press. Regardless of whether he should be kept / traded, a loyal and long time player at the club deserved to be treated better on the way out publicly. The public can be told a different story to the message being conveyed via the FD & LG.. Very poorly handled. Peter Jackson also gone MIA. The fish rots at the head guys. And there's not an old Demon bone amongst the lot, other than one Mr Todd Viney. Care factor!!???

Exactly Norm. I would suggest the Swannies would be a mile ahead as a more suitable destination for Mr Watts given the spotlight he's been under in his first 8 years or so

Good points Jnr but footballers aren't usually known for their tact and eloquence when receiving awards and most of what is said is throw away lines to avoid the spotlight and get off the podium ASAP, with few exceptions who love the spotlight and can't help themselves. The club may be proven (or may not) to have done the right thing in good time but it's the way they aired the dirty laundry and gone about it that seems to have some, including myself, questioning the culture and methods down there. The other issue is that Watts can be a good player on the day, he can be very good, but has also shown on many occasions that he can be a lot less also. The other issue is we have many on the non-performing front who I would happily see delisted before Watts, and before Watts became "the issue" that the FD has decided to stomp over in the press and stamp its marker on. He has definitely gone though, and the question to your last paragraph is THE most critical outcome to this whole debacle. What/who do we get in return? Unless it's a classy outsider who can hit targets consistently by foot, kick accurately from set shots and is a more competitive beast generally around the pill, then we will probably have lost on this one.

It can't be entirely JWs fault surely SW? I seem to recall we signed him on a new 3 year deal at the end of last year, having already seen 7 years of what he was bringing.

Seen it a few times BZ. Sometimes one person's ego, if left unchecked can expand into a giant weather balloon (or in some cases even worse... a Zeppelin!) can end up ruining the entire business's hard fought culture inside 12 months!

He could have just as easily said "No comment or "I'll leave that up to the powers that be" Wise surely?

Reading between the lines Connors has no doubt advised Jack "it's time to move on mate, Can't fix what's already broken", whilst keeping the slimmest crack open in the door just in case as well as being diplomatic about it (publicly) in order to get the best deal for his client. Watts being the genuinely nice guy that he is, it's just taken a while longer than many others for it to sink in that the club he truly loves playing for has actually turned its back on him and thrown him under the bus with 2 years remaining ... ...."On Jack Watts, Connors said he would love to stay at Melbourne, but is gathering interest at other clubs. “That’s been thrown at him for the last five years and I think he’s just getting his head around that he needs to consider his options,” Connors said"... Courtesy AFL Nation Friday 6 Oct

SEN Pro

If it is that premeditated SWY then it must go all the way to his manager who has been reported as saying he will never allow Jack to return to the MFC given the way he's been treated?

Very good Akum and so, is the real issue here nothing to do with Watts In isolation.....but as you say, more about our coaching crews inability to get the best or better out of the rest when it comes to finishing, especially by foot and when delivering the ball inside 50? And I'll give you one guess as to who our best delivery link player is hitting targets inside 50 with the money kick! 2nd overall in the AFL! So, in one of our weakest areas of the game, where we need more players to be able to step up and provide this finish both around the ground and hitting targets i50 if we are to win more games and make finals, we give up the player who is 2nd best at it in the AFL!!! Who's his replacement?? Has Goody (influenced heavily by a very Weideman biased Macca) lost his marbles???

We had many experienced players who were also off that day, in particular Big M, T-Mac and Tyson. They were each poor on the day yet have seemingly been let off unscathed. Such a great message for the young blokes and these under performers! Let's crucify Watts while the others who under performed on the day can go back to being mediocre and fly under the radar. Great coaching and culture that ? There were only 6 players from the MFC who scored 90 or more super coach points on the day. The Pies had 9. Our top 6 were.......... Clarry 117 (i wonder who's gonna win the Bluey!) Tracc 105 Garlett 100 Lewis 92 Watts 91 and Salem 90 Our bottom 5 (excluding Hogan inj.) were .... Brayshaw 57 Peders 49 T-Mac 38 Hannan 38 and Harmes 37 Big M scored 67 & Tyson a 70, ranked 14th & 12th respectively.

And here was I thinking we had left this type of fiasco style of player management behind post PJ & new board ?

Excerpts at 14 minute mark.... https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode/?id=146060

Apart from the fact Watts has played a significant ruck role in the last 2 seasons (impacting some aspects of the comparative stats above) here is a little gem from Glen Luff of Champion Data courtesy of "Pure Footy" segment on SEN with the Ox and Kingy last week that highlights one of the key stats and IMO another significant reason in the argument for keeping Wattsy! For those interested the key part of the discussion on Watts is at the 4:15 mark! A Grade material here (in this aspect at least)! https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode/?id=141626

Correct Akum. Also Tuck played many games and had to kick over 80 goals in his first season and a bit, including 24 goals in his first four reserve matches in 1972 season before getting a look at seniors. He kicked 3 goals on debut but was then dropped after one more match and didnt return again until Rnd 13 of the ressies for a few more matches after kicking another 5 goals in a BOG performance. But was still out of the team mostly until cementing a place, almost 2 years later in 1974. How times have changed. And not for the better in our case IMO. Standards are way too easy now IMO and based too much on "star potential" rather than consistent results over many weeks.

Pro one very important Stat that needs to be taken into account here and would effect many of JW's around the ground stats Vs Lynch, including inside 50s, Marks Inside 50, Contested Marks and Goal averages etc.... and that's Hit Outs!! Jack has played a fair amount of time in the ruck, covering for Big M over the last two seasons. Lynch a big fat Zero. People forget the value of diversity and i heard plenty of praise for Jack's ability to step up and at least compete in this role which played a part towards us winning a few games during the time Big M was sidelined and allowed us the opportunity to make finals. This may have also resulted in Watts getting the soft tissue injury or contributed to it, which saw him sidelined and return somewhat under done. And he certainly wasn't alone in that regard!

I am all for that method Chewy,. Provided he is also not given the next opportunity until or unless he has broken the door down at VFL level over a reasonable period (not 1 or 2 decent games in the odd week). This should be the method for all rookie listed players (ie, those who have played less than say 50 games or so), including JKH etc.. As to why we keep looking at them when they haven't is beyond me..... Severe injury list the only exception.

Don't be rediculous Rjay. Are you suggesting this issue could have been better managed behind closed doors by our relevant club officials!?? After seeing how we have handled this I figured all contracted AFL players who put in an ordinary year were just thrown out in the cold, left to squirm and then publicly humiliated / spoken about as if they were an uncontracted player. Well I never!!

You're game putting Weids in with that lot Mr Leg. You must be seeing something that I haven't so far or have far more faith in his ability. I hope he makes it but would need a huge and consistent improvement in the VFL first before I would take another look. Very ordinary so far IMO and unworthy of a place in that list.

Boo hoo Akum. Don't be part of a club if you can't step up to the plate and deal with the hard issues now and then. Damaging for the club? The way this is being handled is already damaging our culture and standing amongst plenty IMO. Maybe the continued silence of the board and PJ on this potentially devisive issue is the same problem that has haunted this club for decades....no back bone, no support for key players and/or the coach when required (Jnr Mac, Swooper and N.S. For example). STILL no ticker at the top???