Demon Dynasty

Personally think Salem is best suited there and/or a little time playing an outside mid role pushing forward OD. Don't think he really has a defensive mindset (or the tank?) to close down space quickly enough/for long enough during a match when we don't have the ball. Seems to be able to hit targets by foot pretty well which is severely lacking when we come inside 50. Watts probably our best here as another option (assuming he is not spending 70% of time or more rucking). Do we take a huge gamble on King OD? Feel free to call me crazy but if you could just hear me out for 1 minute after you (and others) finish laughing out loud ☺️ We give him 2 very simple roles..... 1: In for the majority (but obviously not all) centre square bounces only, to compete in the air and try to break even wherever possible. No around the ground work at all! ; and 2: He then bolts immediately to the goal square (give or take 10 meters or so) for the remainder apart from rest time on the bench of course (say about 7 to 10 min at end of each quarter) to offer a a tall target and try and bring the ball to ground a few times? Maybe even clunk a mark or two if lucky. If we don't, we are going to be horribly short up forward now with Hogan's unfortunate forced absence. And...outside of Jeffy, we don't really have any other mosquitos that can hit the scoreboard often enough to worry the opposition if they play reasonably tall down back.

Heartfelt condolences to Jesse and his family, friends and relatives. Will no doubt leave a deep scar and could also impact on his health in the short term if not careful. Hard to see the light in such troubled times. All the best and hang in there big fella.

I agree with that sentiment WA but who is in better form that can play a mid field role inside/outside and take Dom's place at the moment who is also not under an injury cloud? I'm 'Buggered' if I know.... OH...wait!

Just thought i would throw this weighted stats comparative data in to the mix now we are 5 rounds in. Using public AFL stats is always fraught with many flaws and should never be used to judge where anyone is at absolutely & in isolation, but just an interesting comparison this year to last to see how players are tracking using the exact same method and formula. The weighted score includes things like clangers, goals, rebound 50s, inside 50s, contested marks, effective disposals, tackles etc and has been fairly accurate at getting most of the best players on the day in some sort of rough similar order to how they actually went (ruckmen excluded) with occasional anomalies, which is to be expected. Have not included hit outs as this is usually only isolated to 2 or 3 players and no way of carving out 'hit outs to advantage' from public stats so take no notice of full time ruckmen rankings as they are badly skewed. Watts being severely impacted here of late obviously and Maxy would have easily finished in our top 5 or so last year of course. What it does show though is how they went in other areas of the match vs others but of course with much less time and energy to spend. A big disadvantage obviously for someone like Watts. What a huge jump from Clarry, Salem, Kent, Hunt, Jeffy and ANB in particular vs 2016. Viney a fair way off his 2017 average and Tyson a long way off to this point (pre season woes?). Jones was quite close to Clarry before his Rnd 5 performance against the Tiges. 2017 Average Weighted Score / Ranking (to Rnd 5) Clayton Oliver 5.40 1 Nathan Jones 4.89 2 Bernie Vince 4.04 3 Jack Viney 3.89 4 Christian Salem 3.89 5 Billy Stretch 3.81 6 Jordan Lewis 3.55 7 Dean Kent 3.43 8 Alex N-Bullen 3.39 9 James Harmes 3.38 10 Jayden Hunt 3.38 10 Christian Petracca 3.33 12 Tom McDonald 3.24 13 Jesse Hogan 3.11 14 Jack Watts 3.07* 15 Dom Tyson 3.01 16 Jeff Garlett 2.89 17 Neville Jetta 2.73 18 Sam Frost 2.68 19 Oscar McDonald 2.57 20 Jake Melksham 2.55 21 Angus Brayshaw 2.51 22 Mitchell Hannan 1.81 23 Max Gawn 1.69* 24 Sam Weideman 1.13 25 2016 Average Weighted Score / Ranking inclusive (to Rnd 21) Nathan Jones 4.60 1 Jack Grimes 4.50 2 Jack Viney 4.17 3 Dom Tyson 4.15 4 Bernie Vince 3.76 5 Matt Jones 3.52 6 Tom McDonald 3.46 7 Clayton Oliver 3.33 8 Tomas Bugg 3.24 9 Jack Watts 3.23* 10 Billy Stretch 3.08 11 Christian Salem 2.98 12 Neville Jetta 2.97 13 Lynden Dunn 2.94 14 James Harmes 2.92 15 Dean Kent 2.90 16 Christian Petracca 2.88 17 Jesse Hogan 2.83 18 Ben Newton 2.80 19 Oscar McDonald 2.77 20 Ben Kennedy 2.76 21 Heritier Lumumba 2.75 22 Max Gawn 2.72* 23 Angus Brayshaw 2.72 24 Joshua Wagner 2.68 25 Jayden Hunt 2.63 26 Aaron Vandenberg 2.60 27 Cameron Pedersen 2.51* 28 Viv Michie 2.33 29 Jeff Garlett 2.25 30 Colin Garland 2.10 31 Alex Neil-Bullen 1.98 32 Sam Frost 1.89 33 Sam Weideman 1.80 34 Chris Dawes 1.78* 35 Only players who have played at least 2 or more matches are shown. I have not included Tim Smith or Spencil in 2017 stats as neither have played out 2 full matches to this point, both being injured very early on in their 2nd match. *Skewed as no hit out stats included. Eg., Maxy would obviously be rated much higher than 23 for 2016 and Watts somewhat higher for both 2016, 2017 etc.

This one.....

Our 4 core mids are all inside biased and IMO lack the agility or burst speed to escape congestion often enough when the ball is won from the inside. Clarry somewhat of an exception here. Results in just another stoppage and not enough yardage gained quickly enough or directly out of the middle to allow our forwards to compete one on one very often. Many of our extractions also end up going backwards or lateral looking for a free player rather than giving to a quick burst outside or inside/outside mid who can go directly forward. A Danger, a Dusty, Sloane, or a Brad Hill type badly needed I reckon. Yes I know they don't grow on trees! We also over do the hand ball which hasn't helped with getting enough quick and direct entries IMO. Clarry the biggest offender and the other 3 core mids not far behind. Kick to handball was ugly on weekend especially given the wet weather. Saty mentioned a few weeks back that they had Viney training to try and improve his burst speed so this might be a sign that the FD is concerned here also and trying to correct the deficiency. I tend to think it's more a personnel problem though rather than working to try and improve what we have. Need to get ourselves an outside or outside/inside beast for next season. Time to trade.

Maybe via a mid season draft Jerry? Long overdue i reckon

I'm not adverse to trying these two but hec.... there's been so many suggestions we may as well make this week's match a ruck try out for everyone over 6' 2"! The reward....The winner gets the bulk of the ruck duties and will likely be pummeled from pillar to post in the next 7 weeks!

Tracc how about running a match simulation against the bombers in AFL evolution with those ruck variations before selection night mate!!

You don't think some are significantly better at short passing and some significantly better at longer kicks for the kick ins?

That was very impressive WWS. Frost has really gained in strength and his attack on ball carrier the last few seasons. Becoming a pretty powerful athlete. Like his run too.

Our genuine ruck cupboard is now completely bare as you say Pro. I like the idea but can he even compete and keep up at an acceptable level over at least 3 quarters or so? Happy to trust the FD and Plapp here to make the call. If it's not King then Pedders is the main man......break even, huge loss or otherwise (in the ruck contests). Has to be the best of a bad bunch if King is assessed as being far from ready even for a short stint. And 7 weeks for King would not be a short stint i wouldn't think. What a baptism of fire that would be if he lasted the 7 weeks or so!

This is a worrying trend that's pervaded our backmen and also happens up the field a little too often Deestroy. Fix it or continue to fail down back (too many up i mean...allowing the loose man to impact from the spill). Hunt one of the worst offenders atm.

Is Frosty an option PF? That's a "look away" potential disaster as you say.

Don't mind that. Maybe 50/50 swapping with Lewis off HB?

Wow very emotional attack there Wise. Bugg unlucky to have been dropped in the first place after one match. That's the chopping and changing i'm referring to. Eg., A player being brought in for one week and dropped the very next, and/or coming back the next (Smith). Nothing to do with changes being "bad for the side" as you wrongly quote me. That was NEVER mentioned anywhere in my post. So that's 2 legit changes im suggesting (that aren't forced) in a losing (three weeks in a row) side. Hardly "dripping" with irony and far from upsetting to team cohesion or unusual in a losing team i would have thought, provided those coming in are in reasonable form to replace the two (unforced) changes. Lewis for Melk, who had another very ordinary game seems ok to me, and Bugg who was probably our best at Casey, for ANB, Nothing too severe there i would have thought and seems pretty sound. ANB has had a five week run at it and has been choppy over that period with a few weeks up and a few down. Way off it against the Blues, a very good game in general against the Cats, Ok against the Dockers (as was Bugg who was dropped) and ordinary at best yesterday. His persistent turnovers killing off some of the possessions and decent work. Cost us a momentum changing goal against the cats with that 180 degree brain fade kick backwards into the goal square and another yesterday just before half time with his 2nd brain fade OOTF kick. His decision making and disposal needs cleaning up with his DE % no where near AFL average, presently sitting at 60.2% (average). In our bottom three yesterday at 52.4%. AFL average approx 73%. Get as much of the ball as you like, if you ain't are only hitting targets about 50% of time you're having a mare. Jones had a horror second half yesterday also but still bottomed out overall at 62.5%. JKH also pretty far off here last night on 54.5%. I totally agree, changes for changes sake should be avoided. That's why i'm saying, when you bring a new player into the team don't take him out the following week. Give him at least 2 to 3 weeks to show some sort of return on the selection, backing the player in and your initial decision to select him, unless of course match ups severely over ride that decision. I'm also not sure why you disagree that if a player can't step up after a 2 to 3 week continual run at AFL level (from Casey) they are looked at in favour of a similar role player at Casey who is in solid form.

An amazing 2nd half by Daniher. Didn't see the first but wow. His decision making and long kicking to one on ones has been the difference IMO. Who goes with him next week? Frosty seems like the choice but if he has to share ruck duties? King a "no choice" 'IN' to allow for this?????

Pretty spot on dbj. Our selections and particularly the chopping and changing without any continuity towards team cohesion, player confidence and allowing new entries to step up to 'AFL Level' fitness and pace over 2 to 3 weeks continuity (at least) has been woeful so far. Agree with most of the above but now that Kent is out (agree should have been given one more week as should have Bugg) i want to see what JKH truly offers in the next 2 weeks (minimum). My view is if you bring someone in they have to have a fair crack at showing what they might be offering and backing your initial selection. Ie., they have to be in such good form over a few weeks or more at Casey that you have no option but to select and give them a run at it. JKH didn't do that but has now earned the continuity as he is there, even if his inclusion was on the back of an initial poor selection criteria/judgement. So, if the FD collectively feels King can at least neautralise a fair percentage of contests and has at least a 3/4 match tank or more i would run with.... Ins: Lewis, Bugg, King, Pedo Outs: ANB, Melksham, Spencer & Smith If King is just too far away and too big a risk then: Ins: Lewis, Bugg, Pedo Outs: ANB, Spencer & Smith Frosty to share ruck duties with Pedders, Watts playing a minor 3rd string role when needed (max approx 10% of game time)

Is King anywhere near capable of playing a neuatralising ruck role at senior level in the short term until Spencil gets back Melon??

Vince still required but should play a minor (mix things up) role here IMO. Last night the game plan was always bombing to the right hand flank from either end most of time. Opp just going to read that most of time and get numbers to that side, meaning its a 50/50 or worse on most occasions. Need that short kick sideways to the pocket or over the top, if its on, to break things up and draw defenders to their man a little more. Try to deaden the 1 & 1/2 intercept method a little. Then the longer bail out kick up the line closer to the wing so it's at least a 50/50 in a less dangerous part of the ground OR the next short pass inside (or lateral) to maintain possession and work up the field slowly unless there's an overlap option on like Hunt/Hibberd/Frost. Nev seems like the best option from not much choice here. Been around long enough. Wouldn't hurt to step up and give him the responsibility to take this on with occasional short pass chop out from Watts when he isn't having to play 2nd string ruck role. Which will be a fair way off

Not hibberd. Too valuable further up field with line breaking and great competitor when ball hits turf. Wasted on the kick in. Salem is bog ordinary In general play anywhere defensive side of the square IMO. Starting him from the kick in....no thanks. That leaves Nev and ummm.....

1. Oliver 4.80 / 1st - just over Hibberd....over use of handball when a quick kick i50 will do just as much damage a high percentage of time 2. Hibberd 4.08 / 2nd 3. Watts 2.93 / 11th - no hit out stats included but a 2.93 score around the ground was only bettered by Big Maxy in Rnd 2 vs the Blues where he scored 3.28! 4. Garlett 3.73 / 8th - our only effective forward who also played a fantastic 2nd half much of it up the field, admittedly most of the good work after half time. 5. Hunt 4.03 / 3rd - ran out of steam with about 10 to go in the 3rd but was brilliant up till then. 6. T-Mac 3.95 / 4th - undid some of his solid early work in the 2nd half with some costly one on one losses but he was taking their best forward.

These stats on our core mid-field vs the Tigers are telling IMO as we won most other stats apart from hit outs on the night till 3/4 time...... 'Kicks to Handballs Ratio'......... Tigers 1.55 , kicks to every handball Demons 1.08 , nearly one for one Handball happy players in the mid field for the Demons (eg., significantly less than 1 to 1) ... Demons 1. Clarry 0.33 (kicks to handballs ratio) 2. Jones 0.41 3. Viney 0.44 4. Tyson 0.60 vs The Tigers Mid Field (and a few mid/forwards thrown in) 1. Prestia 0.82 (only mid field offender significantly under 1 to 1) 2. Lambert 1.0 (Mid/Forward) 3. Caddy 1.1 4. Castagna 1.20 5. Butler 2.0 5. Dusty 2.2 (mid/forward) The above extreme ratios from our mid field (in the wet) results in not enough meters gained for the energy/output around the pill. With such over use in wet weather you are bound to have far too many turnovers, especially in more dangerous parts of the ground. Allows the opposition to get the ball into their forward 50 quickly without the opportunity to get enough numbers back whilst not taking our opportunities to kick quickly inside 50 and do the same for our forwards often enough when the opportunity arises!! I can see your point AF and not disagreeing but i think our lack of skills from many when kicking and/or lack of confidence in kicking, resulted in too much handball which in many cases got us no where as there were not enough "skilled" one grab outside runners to receive cleanly and get the ball i50 quickly. So many attempted receives were dropped in the wet and fumbled. I understand wet weather is hard to gather but that's why you go with direct longer kicks to dangerous spots. Modern day footy is all about transitioning and getting the footy as quickly as possible into your forward 50 to give you forwards a decent chance at a one on one without allowing the opposition the chance to get too many numbers back. We stuff ourselves here. Our mid field started the hand ball rot and continued it.....all night long. We also seemed to have too many throwing themselves at the ball too often and not enough keeping their feet on the outside for the spill and spread. We are our own worst enemy and i would hate to be playing a key forward role right now with the MFC. Watts is also about the only player capable of lowering the eyes and hitting targets on a consistent basis right now coming i50. The rest get bogged down too close to the inner stoppage too often with over use of handball when a clean quick kick inside 50 or HF (when possible) would be more damaging, especially in wet conditions.

And i blamed Jeffy at the time lol...Spot on WJ

We dominated most stats up till 3/4 time but by then our ring around the rosey over use resulted in too many turnovers around the stoppages. We started showing signs of severe fatigue coming into the last 10 minutes of the third. The 2 men down obviously playing a role and we saw the Tiges run us ragged in the 4th and got out the back at stoppages far too often. However, Richmond also played more direct, efficient wet weather football. 'Kicks to Handballs Ratio' tonight ......... Tigers 1.55 , kicks to every handball Demons 1.08 , nearly one for one Handball happy players in the mid field tonight for the Demons (eg., significantly less than 1 to 1) ... Demons 1. Clarry 0.33 (kicks to handballs ratio) 2. Jones 0.41 3. Viney 0.44 4. Tyson 0.60 The above equals not enough meters gained for the energy/output around the pill. With such over use in wet weather you are bound to have far too many turnovers, especially in more dangerous parts of the ground. Allows the opposition to get the ball into their forward 50 quickly without the opportunity to get enough numbers back. vs The Tigers Mid Field (and a few mid/forwards thrown in) 1. Prestia 0.82 (only mid field offender significantly under 1 to 1) 2. Lambert 1.0 (Mid/Forward) 3. Caddy 1.1 4. Castagna 1.20 5. Butler 2.0 5. Dusty 2.2 (mid/forward) Coaching, training, execution for wet weather ie., less handballs more direct football. Where was it and why didnt we attempt to change to this style at some point? Maybe we did and i didn't notice!