Demon Dynasty

With Goody & Co running his stocks down publicly CBD, this would seem about all they were going to get and the result was potentially worse, with the rumours suggesting we likely had to pay part of his salary to get the trade away. If so Goody and Co. dug their own grave on this one! Regardless of what you think about Watts or how he was treated (fairly or otherwise), if the salary rumours are proven to be true, this will quite comfortably go down as the worst trade in the club's history, subject to Lever's performance during his stint, which we won't have a handle on for a number of years.

Might be some value there. He might even be able to teach Weids how to split the middle from 20 meters out on occasions and kick them from more than 35 meters out. 500k well spent on something the current coaching crew haven't been capable of doing.

I wonder why

Very easily Junior. The only plausible and reasonable argument for running down a player whilst in a draft window with 2 years remaining on his contract would be to send him a huge message, hope that his draft value then drops considerably so that you then say any (post public trashing) deals are just too unacceptable and then attempt to mend any rift and get try to get Jack to improve as you see fit. Anything else was purely suicidal for both Jack and the club in terms of upside surely. Whether it started off as a soft kick and got out of hand with some unfortunate but amateurish comments that weren't planned... UH since when has the public / members / supporters at AFL / VFL (pre AFL) level ever been fully informed and aware of what truly goes on within the four walls of a club or the commission itself? As KB has always said, lying is the second language of the AFL (and I would add many of those who are directly involved with it and who rely on it as their major or sole source of income). ....a few fine examples of it on an 'en masse' scale. - The 'well planned' extraction by the AFL Commision of the imminent bargain basement sale of what was left of the Fitzroy FC to Norf in 1996, instead handing it to Brisbane; and - The Essendrug saga ..... No one saw either of these coming (even Norf officials who believed they were on the cusp of securing many of the FFC contracted players) outside of a few select parties within the AFL & Essendrug (following the "alleged" tip off to Essendrug officials, supposedly by the then head of the AFL). The Essendrug officials (and most of the players involved) then went on to deny anything untoward had happened and apparently had absolutely no knowledge, records or recollection of whatever the substance was that was being injected multiple times into each player in an off site location, and then expected the public to believe that as well. I have absolutely no expectation whatsoever, and never have had, that anyone at the MFC or AFL level will ever tell us the complete and full story on any important internal AFL/Club/player related matter UH.

And yes there is a contradiction in my last post. Im waiting! ?

I can. We arent that hard nosed and have shown that with the "Get Lever no matter what the cost!" trade. The other clubs will be in no hurry to grab Watts given they know he is so poorly rated by us. I cant see any trade for Watts until the last day or so even if he nominates someone (which he probably wont or cant).

Our very wet brigade, other than Maynard, arent all that promising from what ive seen King. Whilst i agree we dont need any further dad's army type picks, i would also not want to go with more untried skinny draftees from here unless their body / physique says otherwise and they have speed and can hit targets by foot in a big way. Would rather go for early to mid 20 offerings with same speed/kicking abilities (and or solid overhead marks) who have AFL experience (say 80 plus games), have already proven they have some talent at this level and a body that's also able to handle 23 rounds. No more Gysberts, Mortons etc fcs

Of course the FD is watching and monitoring every aspect they see fit, as we would hope and assume from a well paid bunch of professionals Dr. However, when you see them keep playing (and giving 2nd / 3rd chances during the season) under performers who have shown only spasmodic "reasonable" form and in some cases average form at Casey eg, Kent, JKH and Weids. And you keep playing so so players that offer no advantage over others that were at least as good or better on the list and telling them so by leaving them to die a slow death in the McGoos (eg, Howe / Dunny overlooked for Omac and Garland) just because they supposedly were the future and apparently "got the message", the evidence is clearly there that some who are treated differently to others REGARDLESS of performance. Not that surprising but still, it happens. Coaches and their crew have favourites and that list can no doubt change, by the month! Evan Watts had to drop himself at one stage last year as he felt he wasn't up to scratch at senior level. Some have earned credits in the seniors, I get that, so will always get a few extra trys due to leniency but this forgiveness for players that have never truly shined (consistently) at senior level and then not truly earned a spot with consistent form in the McGoos but still get a look in at senior level (and some overlooked even if performing better than their favoured counterparts) from time to time, is just another aspect of what makes good clubs become great, vs the rest of the pack. If you can't get over this hurdle as a club I doubt the club will make it and succeed at the highest level or would need to have an amazingly talented list (and manager/coach)that is somehow able to ignore the background noise regardless.

I seriously hope this isn't true. If it is then this club has serious underlying issues that go way beyond Watts and his off field antics and WILL NOT be resolved with the departure of JW. If it is true I can only hope PJ gets hold of the fitness guy and tells him to shut the hell up and keep his personal views to himself or between himself and JW.

Yes but the Jack haters don't see it that way Red, they like to just paint a picture of an under performer who wasn't really very good at anything or didn't perform up to the levels expected most of the time. Whilst he may not have, he certainly did perform to a level that meant he was easily in our best 22. By focusing so much on JW, too much emphasis is placed on HIS output vs what's expected and too many others who have severely under performed and in my opinion should have been looked at and moved on before JW, are still there and in many cases have gone under the radar of scrutiny. Scrutiny of a similar level that's been applied to JW, and rightly so. For if you aren't going to apply the same principles to all as you did to Jack then good luck getting the best out of the entire playing list and winning a premiership (under the present coach and FD team).

With the value, or lack thereof, that the FD has now caste upon Jack by announcing to the entire football world that he has personal issues off the track and doesn't go hard enough with pre-season training etc, we will be lucky to even get Pick 30 (as suggested by Spook) let alone a bonus player Chaser. Maybe a free tea strainer so we we can read the tea leaves and work out how this will all play out. Now that would be worthwhile! ?

Ron this line of "deciding to be great". Sorry but you can certainly give everything of yourself and decide to be fully committed and give it your best and maybe improve to your best "optimal" output. This might result in a player improving their standing and becoming say sub par, ordinary, a bit above average, very good or in some rare cases "great" ... but at this level you can't just flick a switch and suddenly become "great" just because someone (be it Ronald Dale or anyone) suggested that's what happens when you decide!

Thanks nsfm. I don't defend or take sides with any player/s i just call it as I see it. In the past, up until about 2 years ago, I was a big doubter and critic of Watts and was copping it from everyone who were more Pro or completely sold so go figure.

City we don't need more meat and potatoe types to replace Jack. He was the finish, the icing on the outside if you like. We have an abundance of these types and you only need so many in finals. He was inneffective and shown up badly in his last match anyway. A solid player but not what we need more of.

I can't recall Grigg impacting in any way in any ruck duties during the finals series DS. Not sure how that has any relevance here. Certainly didn't impact any hit outs .... 0 Hit Outs. There are no easy possessions playing in the middle anymore in AFL unless you were on the end of a few Sandy taps I would think. Run around freely and receive the ball from his own taps or?? So there were no other opponents around him putting pressure on DS? You know, duds like Danger and Selwood? Watts was always going to be a 2nd or 3rd string forward. He usually played ok when he wasn't played out of that and others like Hulk or bulkier Pedo were on the park and playing there and drawing the 1st / or sometimes 2nd string defender. your first argument is a furphy. Your second, I've seen him play nicely as a sweeper or winger if you like. His tank was questionable early but he didn't need a super one anyway as his sublime evasive skills, and delivery of the pill and quick thinking allowed him to more often than not hit up the next target quickly. The fact that he is No.2 in the AFL for hitting targets coming inside 50 means he must have been doing something right on the outside. Please direct your gaze to others who should be doing more of this finishing even though they get quite a bit of the pill on the outside but either can't get away as too slow off the mark, or are too slow in making decisions and executing and get caught much of the time anyway or worse, can't even hit targets (or the goals) on a consistent AFL level basis and may have more of it but often do less or just turn it straight back over to the opp. Wattsy's career DE is running at about 76%, approx 3% above the AFL team average and about 10% to 12% higher than some of our try hard hacks like ANB and Too Slow. He was never drafted as an inside mid from what I can recall. He certainly isn't capable of holding down a Key defensive role if that's what you are suggesting, and was probably only decent playing the loose sweeper. On that I will happily agree with you and highlight that early on he certainly didn't have the tank or physicality (or intent!?) to carry out such a role, and probably also didn't have this in any forward capacity either and was rightly derided for it after he had enough time to be doing so, from about year 4 onwards. He did improve in this area somewhat in the last 2 or 3 seasons though IMO. To say he had no tank, please review some of his earlier matches, including the Geelong match this year. If he had no tank he would not have impacted any of these, nor kicked the winning goal on QB late in the last quarter, where he spread well in order to get the pill initially and still had enough toe to keep space on his opponent, summed up the situation beautifully, and then steadied and kicked accurately. Exactly the finish required in any big game, and our biggest of the year. P.S. The only designated forward (role) player, who happened to play much of the match in the ruck against the cats, who was able to kick accurately (ie, more goals than points) against the cats in that match in one of the worst "yip" (kicking for goal) matches I have ever seen any team have at AFL / VFL level that day was ... one Mr J Watts with 2 goals 1 behind.

Some critics of Watts, who play down his 6th after round 14 in the bluey, also conveniently overlook the fact that he played much of the time in the ruck. And he ain't no ruckman. For him to be 6th after round 14 is the equivalent to anyone outside a dedicated ruckman being in the top 2 or 3 to that point, were he played in his more suited non-rucking roles prior to the injury. There's some serious gilding of the lilly going on when it comes to his performance up to the injury both on here and within the FD it would seem.

Not as unbelievable as your fro bro!

Bobby you do realise there is always the slim possibility that GV's nose might not be plain!??

P.F. I for one have never witnessed a D'land meltdown! And I can think of 186 reasons that it never will either!

Unfortunately most of our returning (from injury) players followed suit 1858, resulting in the entire club, players and coaching dept barracking for that feathered mob out west in their final match.

and in Byron Bay it quite possibly still is SW. Stone & Wood have certainly done a pretty good job of it

Not list management per se Dr. I think you mis understood my point. The message that's being allowed out and how it (and we) are conveyed in the press (especially with regard to long term loyal players or any for that matter) vs that which is carried out within the four walls. In that I will happily disagree with you (if you disagree) that PJ has a huge role to play here where the message and/or its method of delivery and nature are being conveyed in a way that could hurt the club or its culture (the one the Club, including PJ are trying to build...from a place of recent historical horribilus).

I don't agree that he was a carbon copy of Sylvia in terms of the way he plays Jnr. Maybe you mean intensity / effort. If so I can see similarities. Outside of that they are miles apart in most regards in how they play the game IMO.

Some had success at other clubs though A F. Would be more than happy for those who tasted it strongly and most recently, like Todd, to return (provided they fitted the job requirements and skill sets etc and weren't wet behind the ears and learning on the job ie, making their mistakes on us).