Jaded No More

Don't get too excited, he probably won't make the final cut. Robbo is a definite, alongside Frawley, which leaves probably one or two at the most to come in. My guess, McLean and CJ. Who would Holland play on, with Thompson out of the side? Don't expect to see Moloney for a while...

Thank you Mr.Magic MD. Get back to us when you get your physio degree He has OP, it is an ongoing condition which needs to be managed. When he doesn't play because he is underdone, you are here crying that the club is a disgrace for not playing our most talented player. So he gets a game, and plays 120 minutes up forward, and pulls up sore, and suddenly we are not looking after him properly?! FFS, have a bottle of vodka with those crazy pills will ya

How do you it's the club's fault? It is incredibly frustrating that both Sylvia and Whelan and are out injured again, especially Sylvia who just cannot string games together. Perhaps they refuse to risk him if he comes up with any sort of mild soreness, which is why he is having the week off. Better one week, than another year!

Hoorah for Frawley! Y_M, keep the suicidal ramblings confined to Sylvia discussions. This is a happy thread! :D

They can play it at dawn on Mars for all I care... just as long as we win one! :angry:

Great article! A couple of things... 1) Archer is an absolute champion person. 2) TJ clearly cares deeply about the club. I've know that for a while from someone who knows him very well, but the end of that article is just further proof of how much it hurts him to lose. Appearances can be very deceiving. 3) I would welcome Bryon with open arms if he got himself right and decided to play on in 2008.

Beautiful :D

Rightio, so does anyone have a run-down of what he ACTUALLY said... not the make-belief [censored]?

How does one 'rest' a 20 year old who has played only a handful of games? If Dunn doesn't play this week, it's either because he is injured, or because he has been dropped... and he does NOT deserve to be dropped. Newton is not different to everyone else on our list. We should not drop a performing, up and coming player just so that he can get a game. Every other debutant finds their way into the side because of injury, or because there is a vacant position to fill. I want to see Newton play as much as anyone, but the simple fact is, he shouldn't be made into a special case and we shouldn't have to drop someone undeserving just for him to have a go. As it stands, we have bigger needs down back than up forward, and therefore Frawley should be the next to debut... even if he hasn't had the chance to dominate in the VFL like Newton has.

None of us know everything that goes on behind closed doors. Some of us know more than others, but in general, 99% of the discussion on these boards is speculative and is a matter of opinion. I don't think that just because people are unhappy with our current position, and therefore feel the need to express their disappointment, that they are any less or any more of a supporter. I doubt very much that anyone who didn't love the club and the team, would spend their time on this website. The fact that some posters like yourself rather observe, than throw criticism, is what makes this place interesting. But given that we are 0-8, after many supporters and indeed the club was working towards a top 4 finish, I think that we have seen a lot more reasonable, rational, calm discussion than I expected. It does get repetitive, yes, but you can hardly be surprised with the disappointment and heartbreak that everyone is feeling, and which I'm sure you share. When you get 1000 Melbourne supporters in one place, you also get 7 million opinions and a lot of bitterness. But then, when you haven't won a premiership in over 40 years, what do you expect?

Yep, it is officially time to jump in the bath with a toaster. On the bright side, he won't be missing out on any finals action

I see where you are coming from Rhino, but let me ask you this... 10 years ago, Daniher took over the club. Since then, we have had a new board, new president, new assistant coaches, new captain and most importantly new players. Everything has changed since 1997... everything but Neale Daniher. So when he is the only constant in a premiership-less period, who else can we look to for answers? I don't think it is misguided to want Daniher gone, although I agree that a mid-season sacking achieves nothing but further turmoil.

You think the Victory and Storm would be happy with that?

Maybe this is where the problem lies. You see him as a back flanker, I see him as our number one medium defender. Carroll and Rivers take the talls, Whelan the small and Bell the medium sized player (but can also take smalls like Williams). Just because he doesn't play CHB or FB, does not mean that his primary job is not to stop his opponent. We have too many loose flankers who let their opponent do as they please, and considering some of the big jobs Bell has had to do this year (i.e.- stop a red hot Mark Williams), I think it is insulting to think of him as just some back flanker similar to Ward or Brown.

While we're on the topic of who is to blame, I thought this article was pretty relevant. Mark Robinson makes some good points, both about the players and the coach. Sadly, he is spot on when he writes that "over recent years they have been brilliant and collectively hardened for one week, at times for one month, maybe two. But as quick as we are to praise them, they let us and themselves down for being flaky, individual pushovers." You can read the rest of the article here

I don't think that anyone with any sort of footy knowledge sees Daniher as the sole cause of our problems. Of course he isn't, and he is certainly not to blame for the horrendous injury run of 2007 which has no doubt affected our season to date. If you thought we'd finish about 7th, but the club thought we could challenge for a flag, than obviously they see the list differently to you. Did the club over-rate the list? And furthermore, do you think the club has tried to overcome the faults which you admit we have, by implementing yet another new game plan to be carried out on a ground that we have never had trouble winning on before? The reason I ask, is because I am genuinely interested to see where you stand. We don't hear from you nearly enough these days. Injuries aside, what else has gone wrong this season, and who is at fault (if anyone)?

I'm sorry, but can you explain to me why Bell is unreliable, given that this week was the first time all season that he has conceeded more than 1 goal. A defender's primary job is to stop his direct opponent from kicking goals, and based on that, Bell has been our best defender all year. Carroll and Whelan have both been demolished at least once this season, yet Bell has never conceed a bag of goals, not even when his opponent had 10cm on him. His disposal has improved dramatically this year as well. Certainly I'm much happier to see the ball in the hands of Bell, rather than Carroll or Ward.

And Geelong haven't won a flag since 1963, and I bet you they won't win one this year either. As for Eade, he has got the Bulldogs' list much further than many other coaches could. They have a good, midget list, which he worked around by implementing a quick game plan. If the Doggies took as much time as we do, to deliver their ball to their key forwards, they would never kick more than 10 goals a game. Nobody is saying that Daniher is completely at fault, and of course injuries have ruined our season. But you cannot be so naive to think that if we had everyone available that we would have beaten Sydney, or Geelong or St.Kilda (when we had a full list!) and especially West Coast. We got smashed in those games fair and square, and not McLean nor Rivers could have made any difference. You can't take much out of pre-season form, but it was clear to everyone that we were over-possessing the footy. We were learning, and if ever there is a time to stuff-up, practice games are it. But how could a 10 year coach, let his side walk out onto their home ground in Round 1, and over-possess and over-handball the footy? I understand perfectly why we needed to implement a faster game plan when we played interstate, but why at the MCG? And confidence may have a lot to do with our poor skills in Round 8, but what was the excuse in Round 1 and Round 2? And why can we come out fighting like mad in Rounds 6 & 7, but collapse from the first bounce in Round 8? Yes, we were playing the premiers, but gees, we gave nothing. We played 10 minutes out of 120, and that was after Daniher specifically said that we needed to be switched on for the entire 4 quarters to win. So either his message is no longer getting through, or our players need to have their hearing checked. I admire your support of Daniher, but you have far too much footy knowledge to not realise that our faults and our cracks are much deeper than our injury list. We needed everything to go right for us to have a real go this year, and that hasn't happen. However, I still think that without all those injuries, our new game-plan would still be flawed, and our skills still lacking.

Maybe they don't want to get on the AFL's bad side again?

If you think it was 8kg of muscle, you didn't see him last year. He was slightly overweight, and he struggled to run out games. He hasn't lost any of his power, but he can now run all day. The alternative is to make him run all day while unfit, and put too much stress on his legs and groins, which leads to OP. As far as Jones is concerned, he needed to lose the extra weight and it has helped him.

Yes, and so did the club. Otherwise, they wouldn't have tried to copy the premiers' game plan. Old, I agree that additional run was necessary, but that could have easily been done by introducing extra runners to the backline like Bell, Green, Bartram (who granted, is injured). The over-handballing, over-possessing rubbish that we've seen since Round 1 makes no sense, especially when implemented at the MCG. We've won all but 1 of our games at the G' last year, and yet we messed around with a winning formula. If it's not broken, why fix it? We have been a kicking side for years, and yet we can't hit a target this year. Players who used to be great users of the footy, no longer are. What has happened there?

Have you got any statistics on Moloney and Sylvia? I'd be interested to see whether they were made to lose weight, in order to reduce the stress on their groin, which would make sense. I think Jones was on the plump side last year, and he needed to lose the weight to gain endurance. He was struggling to run out quarters last year, now he can run all day. My issue is not with the weight gain or loss. Big-bodied players will always be just that, big-bodied. You can make Moloney or Bell lose a few kilos, and they will still be powerful tanks, whereas Bruce will always be on the lean side. The real worry, is that we chop and change and adapt our game style on a yearly basis, but our list doesn't change. Now, of course it is easier to change the game plan, and not the players, but in making tactical changes, you need to work with what you have. Instead, we are working with what we wish we had, which is leg speed and superior skill level. When really, what we have worked on all summer is endurance, and getting our players to run all day. Can you really make better endurance players while increasing their leg speed at the same time? And in doing all this extra training, weight loss, etc etc... we seem to have forgotten the main thing that wins sides games, and that is our skills level. We were always a good kicking team, who have spent all summer working on handballing, and when that failed, have completely forgotten how to use their feet. Something has gone horribly wrong, and we can't just blame the injuries. In the next 2 weeks, we should be close to having our best 22 out on the field again (give or take Bartram and Pickett). We will have no more excuses, but we will still have a game plan that doesn't suit our players, and a fundamental lack of skills.

People are, quite clearly, losing the plot. I've read that we should drop Dunn and Jones, and yet everyone is screaming at Daniher to play the youngsters. I've read that Neita should be dropped so that Newton can get a game. Now Bruce and Green? How will we get their trade value up if we don't play them in the senior Y_M? Everyone needs a strong drink and a lie-down I think.

Well done KD, you are spot on. Daniher has spent years trying to copy other teams' success. First by getting hard-bodied players like Brisbane, then by shifting the emphasis to tempo, pressure footy like Sydney. Now it is all about the run and carry that teams like Freo and West Coast implement. The problem is, that we are not Brisbane, or Sydney or West Coast. We have different strengths and weaknesses, and one of the main weaknesses we have is our inability to come up with a truly unique game plan that suits our players, and our players only. We become too predictable too soon, or we fail to emulate the successful clubs altogether. Like in 2004, when teams quickly realised that we would go through the centre corridor at every opportunity. Copying other sides is a true sign that we lack vision. Rodney Eade went from introducing the flood at Sydney, to quickening the game at the Doggies, yet we have never had a truly unique game-plan that leaves other teams struggling to catch up to us. For once, I want to see other clubs copying us. I'm sick of always doing the chasing.

There isn't a single good reason to drop Dunn. He is learning to play the wing, and doing a good job. If Robbo, McLean and Rivers are fit, they will come in for Miller, Brown and Ferguson who is injured. Frawley should debut in favour of Ward, or Rivers if he isn't fit. Newton won't play.