Moonshadow

11 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

Trac, Clarry and Gawn are our only untradable players in my opinion, the rest if the price is right i'd be happy to consider offers

Steven May

4 minutes ago, A F said:

Each to their own mate, except if we're talking about wearing red and blue coloured glasses, I think you can take out the red and blue lenses and put some prescription lenses in, because even contemplating trading Oliver is absurd.

Ha! Here I am:

I've seen PJ at the footy decked out in red and blue with his missus after he finished with us. He's one of us

Happy to disagree. Don't get me wrong, certainly don't want him traded, but I'd say Trac and May are our only untradable players at the mo

Occasionally I try to take these off

4 minutes ago, adonski said:

Oliver's been better through his career, is less injury prone, and has a higher ceiling 

I disagree, but it would be fair to say that Kelly fits our needs for a highly skilled outside mid more than Clarry does atm

Besides, my point was that IMO Oliver is not untradable

12 hours ago, A F said:

You are kidding? Trade Oliver? Wow. I don't think you'll ever come back from that.

Not saying I want this, but would you trade Clarry for GWS Kelly? I ask this because every player has a price, for the individual and the club 

35 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Jay Clark said on triple M that Viney hasn't given a confirmation to Melbourne whether he's staying or going, but the club are really confident he'll stay.

So he hasn't signed yet for 4 or 5 years....

Interesting

Fingers crossed ?

4 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

OMac will not get any better as a footballer. He peaked in his second year for two games, and has achieved very little since. 

Confirmation bias. He played a couple of good games this year too, from limited opportunities.

I won't stress if he is traded, but I believe at the right club he will develop into a handy backman. A change for Oscar will be as good as a holiday. Good luck to him.

5 x $700K?!!!

1. That's crazy money

2. His younger bro is high draft pick f/s for Pies. They will desperately want to play together. If anything, Josh will take less money for this

Here 'tis

32 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

He may well be in the review picket but I can tell you the outcome now.

Goodwin will still be senior coach next year.

Yes, but will he listen and take advice from from those around him?

1 hour ago, Coq au vin said:

Top teams have elite superstars like Dustin Martin or Lachie Neale. 

How many do Port, WCE or St K have?

3 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Interesting benchmark you are setting What does that make Petracca and Oliver worth?

in the open market Tracc close to $1mill and Clarry about $850-900k. Maybe about 10% less at the Dees, as its easier to stay if happy than leave. Obviously I have no idea what their contracts actually are, I'm speculating like everyone here. But I highly, highly doubt Viney would sign for $300k, which is what I originally disputed

8 hours ago, picket fence said:

Ah you sure?? Can I just ask a question????

Re " Not sure we can change the game plan to suit. "

Are you sure our CURRENT GAME PLAN IS ANY GOOD??

I think it shambolic!!! We need to get 2 things

A A coach who can coach

B Players who deliver better than they have been coached to do!

Who is the last player we have had to kick 60 plus goals in 2 out of 3 seasons????
 

We need EXACTLY this type of player and get our game style right and COACH players to a much better standard than has been in the last million years!!

GO GET BEN BROWN!

Picket, when I read your posts in the voice of Donald Trump they make so much more sense!

7 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

I would not have a bar of paying him double the average wage. Good AFL playe Jack has been overated for his all round football ability from before he even arrived at the Dees.  Would he get a game with Port?

That's your opinion, but I doubt it's the opinion of the wider afl industry.

The answer to your question is emphatically 'yes'.

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Who SHOULD be played FORWARD. Until he is given a fair go up Forward.... lets reserve judgement re "Whipping Boy" just yet!

 

So... bag out some who have had better games but reserve judgement on others who have had zero 'good' games??

Thank [censored] you are not our list manager picket!

Hawks have offered him the batmobile

I know I'll get howled down for this, but with the right coaching and development I think OMac will become a handy backman. Only 24yo, would do much better at Rich or WCE. Rich turned Grimes into an AA. Not comparing the two, just illustrating that development is king

SEN employing the scattering approach to trade scenarios hoping something eventually is correct. Sounds familiar ?

10 hours ago, A F said:

No, that's all fair from an argument standpoint mate.

I'm not an AFL footballer, but I do know the wage of a relatively senior footballer and it's not as high as $365k, even when you factor in match payments. So where have you got that average player wage from? I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just asking, because my understanding is that the average player wage would be a lot lower than some think. It's still far higher than the median or average wage of Australians though, which is the point I've been making.

Still, you're right, it's not apples with apples, but if he's been offered $300k or more, that is considerably higher or at the least in line with many middle rung FIRE employees, and FIRE are the three industries that basically prop up our GDP, so the top earners.

Anyway, perhaps I'm getting dragged into the microeconomics of Australian society and I should simply concede.

This is quite right. I'm happy to concede I don't know enough about the facts to make an accurate assessment.

I googled "average afl player wage 2020". 

There will be plenty below that, but an ex capt, b&f winner in the prime of his career would get about double that IMO. You and I might hope for less, but that's the reality. Unless we let him go as a FA and pay a 1st rounder $105k. I googled that too!

1 hour ago, A F said:

Yeah, I get how contract negotiations work, thanks very much. The reality is someone like Viney has been paid a large sum of money over the years (millions and millions of dollars by the age of 26) and this latest offer would almost certainly be a minimum $300k. And you're saying that's not enough value to his worth.

The fact he may or may not have turned down other offers is irrelevant. By demanding more, he's putting list management into jeopardy. You may call that loyalty and leadership, I don't.

We're not talking about $30,000 here, we're talking about a significant amount of money. I'm not sure what world some people are living in. The median Australian income for 2019 was $48,360 before tax. This is pre COVID. And we're talking about a person here that is on $300,000+! Are you kidding me?

Disagree, to some extent, A F.

The average player wage is about $365k. He'd be valued in the industry at much more than that. I'm only guessing, but maybe $650k??? Not sure

If we want to keep him, pay him what he's worth. Of course we'll try and low ball him, but the reality will be somewhere near what he's worth on the open market

A lot of posters compare AFL player wages with the average punter's wage. Or compare the job circumstances of the AFL to us mere mortals. It's not apples with apples. There's so much money in the footy industry at that level. It's not realistic to compare Jack's contract with yours or mine. It's a completely different workplace, just about polar opposite

(I stand corrected A F, if you are in fact an AFL footballer!)

2 hours ago, Demons11 said:

Because they would have matched, clutching at straws there mate 

Who's clutching at straws???!!

3 hours ago, A F said:

I get that the game is a job for players, but I don't like hearing that a guy with so much history tied to the club has basically refused to take unders (which is still likely to be way above the top tax bracket - surely he was offered $300-400k) in order to secure his signature.

I know McCartney was big on instilling a culture of guys taking unders, so that the club could manage its list better and keep the core together. Geelong do this and Hawthorn did this for years.

If true, I don't like it and to me that's not leadership at all.

Yes, but Geelong and Hawthorn have consistently had something else to compensate for contracts under the market rate: premierships.

I've turned up to the 'Axis of Bob fan club' only in the last week or two, but I've got to say thank you for such well thought out and balanced posts. Thoroughly enjoy reading what you have to say. The Jack Viney analysis a few days ago was a ripper. Cheers

10 minutes ago, Jjrogan said:

If we dont get Smith. Can i ask, why doesnt Christian Salem get a gig on the wing? The idea he doesnt have a tank is not based on evidence.    He was second to Langdon on average distance run in a game. He has our highest speed recorded for 2020 (admittedly this stat seems a little subject to error, but he's definitely not slow).  Simply, he's a great runner and a great kick.  Im probably missing something. Maybe it was tried and i blinked and missed it. 

I like your thinking. Not sure Salem is that quick off the mark, but he can work up a pace to run down and tackle opponents. Certainly has the disposal and decision-making to be a winger. My question is who would replace Salem as the distributor in defence?