Maldonboy38

Col G to Buddy. Col is beginning to show signs of Dustin Fletcher in his younger days (without the kicking and elbowing of opponents). However, I don't reckon this matchup is the key to the game.

Frawley to Roughie. If the Dees can get this matchup this is a huge + for us. Roughie can be brilliant or foul with no in-between. Frawley's run and turning defence into attach could really show up Roughead.

Martin to Hale. Stef to continue his great 2011 form.

Bartram to Rioli. Does Barts have enough quick-thinking and quick-stepping to match Rioli? I am not too sure we have a good match for Rioli, but maybe Jetta.

In the Guts

Burgoyne could cause us problems in a similar way to how Goodes always does. Burgoyne is a tall-ish, powerful midfielder and will be too tall for Bail. Pity Jordie ins't playing.

Jones to run with Mitchell. Mitchell gets a lot of ball across Hawks half back, andif Jonesy can get a few touches could mean 2 goals for us. This is a great matchup for us except that Jonesy MUST have contact every time Mitchell is on the ground.

If Hodge plays half back maybe Dunn to make him accountable. Yep - agree with this.

If Hawks don't do something about Sylvia and Trenners, this duo could seriously damage them. Both in good form and are a cut above Bateman, etc...

To win this game our half forward line must be super-aggressive and hold the ball in, maybe even play on them man-on-man. The Hawks love their half backs to get heaps of free ball and set up play. Green, Watts, Dunn, Petterd, Maric, Bennell are the key for us scoring enough to win.

Tappy on Bruce. Show him what he left and is missing out on.

For the record - I hate the Hawks. They have stuffed up so many of our first rounds, and their 2008 arrogance almost matches Essendon's 2000 arrogance. I am sick of average footballers like Ladson, Young and Ellis carving us up without pressure or pain. Not this year.

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I dont want to get into a bad habit of singling out players and getting people to go open slather on them but i must ask about where jonesy is at as i was dissapointed with his game on sunday. I absolutely love the guy and i think his passion for the club is almost unrivalled by any other player.

BUT....

1. What is his role in the team??

2. Is he too slow for modern day football?

3. does his poor disposal lead to too many turnovers that put our players pushing forward under pressure defensively?

4. Should we expect more from a guy whos now been in the system since 2006 and is part of the leadership group?

I am in the same boat as you Gotzy. Love Jonesy to death. And I appreciate that he had to be the number one or two midfielder for 2 years or so when he was still developing, and few others would take the pack-hits and help him out. He also bleeds red and blue and would be great to have around the club.

1. What is his role in the team??

Tagger/stopper. He can really concentrate for long periods and can tackle brutally. His first three or four steps are quite quick and because he positions himself so well, he is close enough to close down most players he runs with. Rohan Bail needs to be encouraged to run and carry, something Jones shouldn't do too much of.

2. Is he too slow for modern day football?

No. You need up to 4 super-quick players. Most of the others can be of average quick speed, and 2 or so can be slower and given specific roles. Many slower guns running around in the AFL (e.g. Mitchell, Hayes, Baker, )

3. does his poor disposal lead to too many turnovers that put our players pushing forward under pressure defensively?

Yes. Actually, he is at his most accurate when shooting for goal on the run, which many others find it difficult to do. However, his turnovers are usually founded on poor decision making rather than poor disposal. He gets tackled so often at the point of kicking the ball.

4. Should we expect more from a guy whos now been in the system since 2006 and is part of the leadership group?

No. The FD can see great merit in his place in the team so let them persevere a while.

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In the past you got the sense Stef would go where instructed, kick and handball to plan but was not intuitive about the essentials when in the middle of game play. He could spoil and defend a space adequately.

Glimpses throughout the NAB cup/challenge series, and then dramtically on Sunday, Stef demonstrated important steps in his development:

An awareness of team mates using his peripheral vision in anticiaption of what to do when he got the ball

Sidestepping around opponents to dispose of the ball with the best option not only the first option

Strong, deliberate marking both contested and uncontested(this really highlighted Paul Johnson's inability to do this)

General football awareness.

He is quickly stepping out from being another athlete who can play footy a bit, into being a genuine footballer. He still has a bit of work to do, and if he ever has to stand an aopponent like Goodes, Franklin, either of the 2 Riewoldts, it will clearly show he has more improvement to make, but he has genuinely surprised me and I can't wait to see what he brings to the Dees across the 22 hone and away games.

Two points:

Hard work at training can make a big difference

Our coaching staff are real teacher and educators. Maybe we don't give them enough credo and they deserve more.

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6 - Moloney

5 - Trengove

4 - Sylvia

3 - Bennell

2 - Martin

1 - Garland

I see that titan-uranus has MacDonald in his best 6. titan, you must have been taking crack at the time. His disposal and decision making today were horrible.

Up until today I was struggling to find the right place for Moloney in my starting 22 but he led us to that draw through guts and composure. Great game.

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In the preseason, there were a number of topics and posts highlightiing our lack of natural skill in our backline. There is no lack in our backmen GETTING to a contest - but the skills coming out of defence to set up attacks was a worry in the NAB cup and challenge matches.

It is only round one, but this trend was on show for all the other clubs to see today. You know our defence had a bad skills day when one of the best users of the ball is Bartram. He actually played his role well today but as for the others, their lack of skill was hihjlighted. Tapscott was excellent in defence and it was great to see his ball use.

MacDonald - turned into trouble, handballed into trouble and kicked very poorly.

Rivers - his efficiency rate for every skill today would be at about 40%

Garland - did his job (eventually) on Goodes but even he bad a number of bad decisions.

Grimes - excellent at everything except disposal.

Two suggestions:

1. Our midfielders have to move a lot more so our backline do not have to continually kick to stationary targets near the boundary line. This lack of movement and options increasses the probability of clangers and restricts the defender's options.

2. We must get games in to Gysberts, Blease and Strauss. We cannot advance too far without an increase in backline kicking skills.

Thoughts?

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Green - just good enough

Jones - please don't kick (exxcept for goal)

Watts - angry pills required

Bennell - great in patches

Trengove - quality and poise

Sylvia - strong and dynamic

Dunn - finishing needs work

Petterd - in starting 18

Grimes- prolific but wasteful

Maric - ordinary all day

Garland - did his job

Moloney - tough and prolific

Jurrah - needs to defend

Rivers - worst on ground

McDonald - limited and wasteful

Martin - turned into footballer

Tapscott - mongrel and skill

Davey - beaten on the day

Jetta - better every game

Jamar - great ruckman's game

Bail - never eally in it

Our kicking for goal was a off, especially from 10 minutes in the last quarter through to the final siren. Even Jamar and Dunny! But Sydney were just as bad. I don't think this one thing cost us the game but it contributed. How can we spend so much time training and then kick the ball this badly? The mistakes under pressure are understandable and I can't criticise it, especially against Sydney.

But the kicking off the half back line was terrible until the last quarter. MacDonald and Grimes looked at times as if they were aiming for opposition players, and as for poor old Jared Rivers, that has to be one of his worst performances ever.

Perhaps it is just the round one cobwebs, but I reckon the clanger count will be between 20 - 30 just from our backmen.

Half our team showed below average kicking skills today but Grimes had a shocker.

His reading of the play - oustanding.

Courage - outstanding

Contested marking - outstanding.

Hitting a target - really poor.

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Right on the eve of the season - THIS. This would deflate morning glory!!!

However, because he is still developing it is not a massive blow. The mongrel is that pace is our major asset and he is super quick and super intense at the contest. Bail, Gysbert or Tapscott to replace him.

But I am getting sick of our injury-plagued starts to seasons.

I need a cup of coffee... no, a whiskey... no, an Irish coffee.

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This year = 10-12 wins with some wins we didn't expect and some losses that make us angry.

Jetta, Bennell, Blease, Tapscott, Strauss and especially Gysberts have to be given game time. Our midfield will be OK when all are fit and play games week after week together. But our back six is great in getting the ball; we just can't get through the press zone relying on the skills of Bartram, MacDonald etc... We give oppositions the ability to easily re-nter inside 50 by un-pressured turnovers. We need backmen who have grunt AND skill, more like Chip and Grimes.

I want finals. We may make it. We have a great list. But we need the skills of Bennell, Jetta, Strauss etc... moving through our backline to stop the unforced errors.

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Two very different teams probably vying for a similar position on the ladder.

Stef Martin should go to Goodes but he can't. Goodes has an incredible footy brain - always runs to the right spot at the right time, and has those small touches and body-contact moments that put opponents out of position quickly. Martin's game is based on his althleticism, he is not a natural footballer. Goodes will cut him up like a hot knife through butter. I love Jonesy but he is too small, Goodes will kill him in the air. Could Joel Macdonald keep up with him pace wise?

Although our midfields are of an almost even strength, we are quicker, but Sylvia is the man here. He is an explosive power footballer and I cannot see a Sydney player able to curb him.

Our sub - Bennell or Bail. Someone to come on half way through the 3rd quarter and show up their lack of pace.

Dees by 18 - 25 points

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Great post Bhima. A lot of food for thought.

Bailey does have a game plan, and he and the assistant coaches can adapt it when the opposition is on a roll. I don't see any glaring weakness in our set up or plan. Our biggest problem is that very first instinctive movement or act from many of our ball-getting players. It is either a second too slow, or the wrong choice to make. We don't have any problems getting out hands on the pill in the first place: it is the instinctive decision making from too many of our players that leads to trouble, rather than setting up attack. How many times on this site have we lamented those dreadful suicide handballs, or that quick handball to the defensive side of the pack only to see it miss its target by 2 metres and land in the hands of the opposition? Or the un-pressured kick from half back going anywhere but on target?

Bartram, Jones, Rivers & Moloney are great ball winners but we don't want the ball in thier hands too long or too often. Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Blease, Watts, Tapscott, Grimes, Jetta, Bennell, Bail (if he can get his kicking right) - we want these blokes to be the main players, to help out Sylvia, Green and Davey who can't stand on their own much longer.

No game plan works with turnovers and dumb decision making. Yes, we need our grunt players but only if they can effectively feed our game-makers.

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Who Goodes ?...an overrated spud ? ? gOLLy !

2 x Brownlows; matchwinner.

Can't agree more, High Tower. Although there have been better footballers, Goodes at his best and Kouta at his best were simply unstoppable. Tall, athletic, quick, amazing skills, goal kicker, can crash a pack - yep, the whole package. To call him an overrated spud is simple envy. Can you imagine him in a Dees jumper. Shivers down the spine.

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Haven't been near a computer in 3 days - so I immediately visit good old 'Land to get up to date and .... NEWTON IS ELEVATED!!!! I am not much of a swearing man but if anything makes me want to, it is this. @#$%*$!! Newton does have the skills and brains to play at AFL level but will not push through his natural abilities and extend himself into that zone required by athlete athletes, or in this case, elite footballers. I have never seen him push and extend himslef in a game. At VFL level he is able to rely on his natural ability and he therefore excels. AFL requires an application of will, and an ability to continue when feeling beaten or exhausted and in this he has shown to be really poor. Bad decision Melbourne.

One poster wrote that there is one position up for grabs between Stef Martin and Newton. If we use our substitue position between these two blokes our chances of winning reduce immediately by 5 - 10%. Other clubs, especially the good ones will plan around the lack of intensity provided by these two. I am not knocking Stef Martin and I have him in as the sub for my round 1 team, but he also needs to demonstrate that he can push his limits if he wants to succeed.

If you reckon I am slightly annoyed.. you are right.

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I am really struggling to figure out what the AFL clubs, including Melbourne, are looking for in the pre-season matches, be they NAB cup or NAB challenge games.

In the media, Nick Reiwoldt, that injured Collingwobble defender and even the flawed-Messiah James Hird have stated something like "we are not aiming to win the NAB cup". We hear all the reasons spun by clubs like:

[*]getting games into the young guys

[*]practicing our structures

[*]getting everyone match fit

[*]seeing who will step up this year

[*]etc...

In reality, it appears as if none of these are true. In some games, some clubs have put their best side in each week. Sydney rarely even attempt to win. Our pre-eseason form last year did not simulate our real season game-play at all. St. Kilda the other night were not going hard at many contest (Lenny Hayes was not beaten - he just didn't go at it like he usually does).

I didn't see any of the Melbourne/Lions game today but by reading the posts of those who were at the game you would think our backline was practising all things not to do during the regular season.

Any ideas of what the pre-season is for?

Great to see this topic. Too much other speculative debate/argument over possibilities and potential

Premiers for '11: Pies (unfortunately) but Bulldogs looking good.

Wooden Spoon: Gold Coast

Most Goals for Demons: Jurrah - 60

Leading Goalkicker in AFL: Buddy Franklin

Brownlow: Brendon Goddard

Final Ladder position: 8th

Wins: 12

Most tackles: Jordie McKenzie

Most marks: Colin Garland

Most handballs: Nathan Jones

Most 1%'s: Brent Moloney

Best first year player: Lucas Cook

Bluey: Colin Sylvia

Biggest crowd: 90,000 Queen's Birthday

Worst Journo: Caroline Wilson

Best Journo: Gerard Whately (annoying voice but very good journo)

Biggest news story: Footballer outs himself over honosexuality (non story for me - non issue)

Quote of the season: "We won more quarters than we lost in 2011" - Dean Bailey. I hope he changes his mantra soon. This one of Bail's is driving me nuts.

1. Addam Maric is definitely our first pick small forward for 2011

2. We need 2 more backmen who can kick. Grimes can't do it all, Bartram is really improving but for Rivers, Warnock, McDonald I am screeming "Darren Gaspar" on the inside! We must presevere with Strauss even if it means learning through a couple of losses that we should have won.

3. I HATE Essendon. I agree about the comment above about bringing Matty Whelan back to run through Hird in the coaches box this time, and can someone please kidnap Matthew Lloyd next time we play the Dons and keep him away from the microphone.

Our midfield has some issues but we can't give a great v poor tag until we see them in up to 5 games of the regular season. However, like many Dees supporters, it is unlikely that Jones, Moloney, McKenzie and Tapscott can ALL survive alongside Scully, Davey, Trengove, Grimes Sylvia etc...

Look at the Saints. They have the super-grunt work horse in Lenny Hayes surrounded by a group of midfielders who bring a different set of strengths - Del Santo, Montagna, Armitage, and then of course Goddard.

For mine, I can't see Beamer maintaining his place long term. I love the bloke: what he does with the new recruits, his love for the red and blue, his in your face attitude. But his emphasis on the ground has one dimension - in and under. His long kicking that I used to think was such a strength has become his weakness because the other teams read hinm like a book and drop defenders into the 60m hole when he gets the ball.

Gysberts will take Beamer's place permanently by the end of this year or earaly in 2012 not as a replacement like-for-like but simply as a better all round footballer. Can you imagine him with another 6-8kgs on his frame?

Jones has shown he can learn and if he can break out of the idea that he can shrug off all tacklers he will improve out of sight.

O, I almost forgot Rohan Bail. What position(s) he will play I do not know but he has a huge upside that is relatively untouched. His aggression and run make his utility attributes enormous on the scale of potential.

I started this thread because Trengove appears to have an unassuming manner, but also an unassuming public profile. It doesn't seem that other teams plan how to play him, whereas I reckon they plan for Davey, Green, Jurrah and Frawley. Maybe other Dees players haven't yet earned closer scrutiny adn study from other teams.

Some players have natural grunt - Jones, McKenzie, Bail

Some players look like duds early on but grow slowly into AFL standard footballers. Jamar, Watts, Garland

Others have a sense of balance and poise from day 1, and these players are usually taken note of from the first. Trengove is one of these players with natural poise and balance yet doesn't seem to have drawn the targeted plans of other teams.

However, if he plays in the NAB cup round 2 game with the skill and execution he showed against Port, the fovus of other teams radar may switch very quickly.

Great thread, because we have so much talent across the 18 positions. Although I am a huge Bail fan I know he has a way to go before he can claim a regular spot, so...

Sylvia. Other teams should start getting scared of this bloke. He is going tear opposition teams apart in 2011

Garland. With Frawley out for the first few games he may feel free-er in being more attacking.

Trengove. Absolute class player.

Apologies. Scully, Grimes.

I felt a bit sad for Tom Macnamara.. Getting "pansted" is a perfect description of his night and he lloked well out of his league.

Bail is a gun and he has a touch of aggro, but after watching a video of thr games his disposal has gotten worse over the summer. Has he been given a new kicking action like abrtram perhaps.

Moloney looked slow and more focused on body contact at every opportunity rather than getting the ball or spreading from a contest as we moved forward.

Martin lokoed good and is probably ahead of Spencer in the ruck department, at least after last weekend's game. Quick, agile, thinking on his feet but has no idea about ontested marking.

Any clear reason why we handballed to players under pressure so often? Green, Maric, Jetta, Ttrengove and others.

Be in top 4 for lowest scored against

Be in top 8 for goals for

Watts & Jurrah show the start of a special 10 year forward line understanding

Sylvia for the Bluey, Brownlow, and hey maybe even the Norm Smith

Queen's birthday flogging of the Colliewobblers

I am a real Bail fan, but his kicking is either 100% lace out or misses by 5 metres or more. But at least he gets it. Strauss is a concern for me. When he gets it his kicking is great to watch but he seems to be in the wrong place too often. Fortunatley, these things for both these young men can be fixed.

I remember being adamant about two players I was watching at the start of their careers, and thinking how poor they were - they would be hopeless. They were Adem Yze and Aaron Hamill. Both turned out to be outstanding in their own way and very effective kicks. Let's give the coaching staff some time.

In December I started to put together a 2011 starting 22 and I had Strauss in for Bartram, but Bartram is way ahead of Strauss now.

I agree about it not being a totally accurate stat for the backline and mids, but efficiency in the forwrd line is essential. Having said that, Melbourne's forwards rated high in disposal efficiency but kcicked 2.5 in the last half of the Port game. Maybe you are right. However, those players in the 50% area need to examine their game.

Reading the HUN on line this morning and looking through the Port match stats, and there were a few surprises.

First surprise: Clint Bartram had 7 disposals at 100% efficiency. This year, he might be able to replicate the small back pocket role of Matty Whelan

Second: Sylvia (12 disposals at 83%)and Grimes (9 disposals at 89%) would indicate that grimes must have a decent go in the midfield this year.

Third: Watts had 8 disposals at 88% which is a great stat for a major forward.

Fourth: Nicholson, Dunn, McDonald and Blease had 100% efficiency but had low stats so the effieiceny impact is reduced

Fifth: Bail, J MacDonald, Rivers & Moloney were in the 50% efficieny area. Not good enough. Only one with any excuse is Bail becuase he is young and has only a few games under his belt. For Moloney, he is going to have to be careful - Jones, Gysberts, Tapscott, Blease and others will be pouring pressure on him for his spot.

Trengove: Only 67% efficiency but continues to get himself into the right places.

What I find really interesting about this game and the stats, is that it looks like our forward line was the most efficient. In the last few years our backline has strengthened up and our midfield recruiting looks exciting, but maybe our forward line of Watts, Jurrah, Green, Dunn, Maric, Petterd, Wonna etc... could funtion at a better rate earlier than anticipated. Add in the possibility of Jamar resting down there, and someone like Cook or Howe adding more marking strength and we can go into games with other teams having to plan well to cover all the options:

Any thoughts?