Maldonboy38

An important point is being missed. Every AFL club has contractual obligations for the coach and one player to provide media interviews after each and every game - no exceptions. Does anyone seriously think that Bailey or Rivers wanted to stand in front of the media? It takes incredible character to stand there in front of reporters and repsond to prepared questions that you don't get to see before hand, and then have every answer dissected and analysed, then edited for TV. What does need to be addressed is some of the pathetic "company line" answers that our players have been taught to say. Green and co look like deer in headlights.

So many Demonlanders have written "words are cheap". Have a brief look at history and you will discover that words are essential and powerful. The problem is, someone from the club has to say something. Jimmy, Schwab and Connolly now realise that the inner conflict that they all thought was being managed behind closed doors now becomes the focus of the media attention. One of these three or even McLardy need to turn their focus from those internal matters and talk about the loss to the media. So far, it has been non-club people like Lyon and Schwartz speaking out. How about one of our club leaders stop trying to hide the inner conflict, show the same courage that Bailey and Rivers showed, fronting the media, and letting us know that they are as humilated, embarrassed, angry and betrayed as the rest of us?

The inner conflict needs addressing, but having no-one from the club speaking publicly at this point about our loss is a blight on our club. Can you imagine Eddie or Kennett after a 186 point loss? They have left Bailey and Rivers to speak to the media and have hidden in the background. Not good enough.

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I was also a Bailey defender up until about 6 weeks ago and now I can clearly see that he must take the rap for what the team has produced. It has happened under his watch and he is the leader.

However, all discussions about coaches seem to be emotional, not factual, or even based on some facts. So, here is the state of play as I see it:

Roos : Will not coach again at AFL level. This may change in the future but that is unlikely.

Malthouse : will be at the Pies next year

Clarkson : He will be at Hawthorn next year. It is only small details to be worked out and he personally can't wait for Kennett to be gone. However, MFC should approach him with an outrageously good offer BEFORE Kennet goes.

Lyon : is unwilling to coach and likes his media work too much.

Viney : very good one-on-one coach but is known for disliking stats, computers, over-engineered game plans and the modern emphasis on sports science. He could be a great motivator but would soon grow weary of all the other stuff coaches are expected to (coterie, official functions, media etc...)

Our other assistant coaches are not head coaches and should not be considered.

Dean Laidley : very widely respcted at Collingwood, got North into the Prelim Final. Should be considered.

Rodney Eade : Is he, like Neale Daniher, a coach that can get a team into the Grand Final but will probably never win one? He should also be approached at the very least.

Mark Williams (from Port Adelaide, not our current assisitant coach) Has a personality that can cause conflict and can be divisive, but he is a Premiership coach. He should, like Laidely, be seriously considered.

At the moment, I can't think of any other person who is a reasonable condsideration, but others might be able to.

For mine, with limited knowledge, go for Laidley or Mark Williams, but whatever is the way forward, we must not pursue another newbiew coach.

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I love what Jimmy, Schwab Connolly have done for the CLUB. It's not the club that worries me, it's the continual tragic form of our team. We are up and down like a honeymoon nightie, we fold against good teams, and now this. But these same off-field leaders now need to step up and demonstrate that they can be angry and tough when they need to. Up until about 6 weeks ago I was a Bailey fan and stuck to my guns. I now believe he must not be retained ans should depart this week if possible. And it is Jimmy and the club leaders who need to get in and give the footy department a good burst.

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I also have been watching for more years than I care to remember. Today brought flashbacks of the really poor 1970's when our games were rarely telecast and Channel 7's World of Sport paid scant attention to Melbourne games. It's a sad day my friends when you get beaten by this amount in this era.

That photo of the scarf in the bin sums up how I feel. I will always be red and blue and will continue to go to games etc... but the fire in my belly was reduced to a pilot light today. I am sad for myself, angry at the players, furious at the coaching staff and disappointed for my fellow Dees supporters. I really thouight we would improve this year and aim for finals next year. Rethinking time.

I am waiting to see what Bailey says at the press conference.

It's about time Jimmy, Schwab, and Connolly stopped being so nice, and lead with some fire. Generally speaking I am not a fan of ranting club officials or knee jerk reactions but our club leaders have got to put a rocket through the footy department and players. I want someone in the club to express rage, not disappointment.

Brad Green is a great player but a poor captain.

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I have just got home from a 1 hour kick-to-kick with my boys and rushed to get a score. Would you believe I thought we might do OK today??? What is going on? I return to being that sad, shoulder-drooping, unconfident, unsure, Dees man who is the brunt of every joke, and I have no more right to bag the Doggies, Saints and Toiges for lack of success.

I have four kids, and my 16 year old said "I don't want to barrack for Melbourne anymore Dad, its too hard".

This is a dark day for the MFC (amid many others over the past 40 years or so) and it sits on the head of the coach and the leadership group. Jimmy can't be Mr Nice Guy here. Connolloy can't be the friendly garden gnome. Schwab needs to get away from his whiteboard. A leader needs to stand up, communicate the anger of the supporters and change it up.

Unacceptable MFC.

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Thanks for the clarification Deeoldfart

Brock can kick - I don't see this as one of his deficiencies. He can't kick past 45 metres but that is the same for lots of footballers. If you reckon he can't kick then 3/4 of AFL players can't.

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When he does his best stuff he is exhilirating to watch. Along with Sylvia and Scully he is one of our line breakers. Very quick and can kick at full pace. Also, he has shown an ability to tag quick small players. He should have been picked for Rioli last week even though his form was so poor.

1. I reckon he is still a bit intimidated by the physicality of AFL standard footy. From memory he is from the Northern Territory and the footy up there is fast, skillful but not played in an intense physical way.

2. The Dean Bailey game plan that leaves us exposed on the counter attack so often is usually felt mostly by the half back line, where Bennell usually plays

A lot of players these days develop late, even smaller players, some not reaching their best until 23/24. I don't reckon we can wait that long for Bennell but we must persevere with him. Too much obvious skill and potential to dispense with him this early.

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I cannot believe the senseless spite and ridiculous statements being made about Brock McLean. He was likely to be our next skipper because of his attitude to footy, his leadership character, and his ability to inspire his team mates. Read over a lot of the posts from this year and so many of us have used the words "grunt, ticker, heart, passion etc..." Brock has heaps of these. Just becasue he no longer wears our great jumper doesn't mean he has lost all his best attributes.

Is he slow? Very

IS the Gysberts trade a good win for us? Absolutely

Is he worthwhile? Very

Carlton are mad for not making him a regualr part of their starting 22. Slow, smart, courageous, inspiring, grunt players are the heart and soul of premiership teams - the ones who set up and make Judd, Ablett, Rioli, Goodes, Cousins look great. Guerra at Hawthorn. Hunt at Geelong. Bolton at Sydney. Hart at Brisbane. If Carlton give Brock 70% game time leading into the finals he will rise again to the level of two years ago and become invaluable.

If he gets de-listed, I would definitely be open to re-drafting him, but (and just like the Duchess of York, a very big but) I am unsure if Bailey and Jimmy would want a player who walked out during our difficult years.

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I work in Brighton and yes, footballers from all clubs love a coffee. The Brighton Cafe owners are sending their kids to Brighton Grammar and Firbank on the money they get from footballers.

I drive past Trengove's place every day on the way to work but haven't seem him for a while. I have seen Chip with him a few times

I had a chat with Rivers and Howe a couple of months ago at Sandringham Colf Course.

I see more St. Kilda players than Dees boys.

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1 . Tapscott to mangle Mitch Robinson

2 . Watts to have a breakout game

3 . Blease and Gawn to get 2 more games each minimum

4 . Win at Etihad

5 . Green and Davey to lead.

6 . Scully and Syliva to re-sign

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Tried to resist the temptation to respond so early before 2012 but could not help myself.

B : Strauss Frawley Rivers

HB: MacDonald Garland Tapscott

C : Jones Moloney Bail

HF: Petterd Cook Watts

F : Green Jurrah Davey

R : Jamar Trengove Grimes

IC: Martin McKenzie Howe Gysberts

E : Gawn, Blease,

NOTE : I am worried about the future of both Scully and Sylvia. Obviously both would be in our best 22 if they are around in 2012. As much I would hate to do so, I reckon Howe and McKenzie would come out of the 22 for Scully and Sylvia. I might have to have a rethink - Jordie is a must in our best 22.

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Our effort today was OK. We were physically stronger over the ball than we have been in a long time, especially against a strong bodied team like the Hawks.

Both our defensive and attacking spread was lazy. I was shouting this at the screen when Tim Wason said the same thing. And defending from so far back highlights this situation. By the time we have run and spread up the entire ground a few times, even the fittest teams/players would struggle. Our kicking inside forward 50 today consisted mostly of bombs, because by half way through the 3rd quarter our players are exhausted. This is not a fitness issue - it is a game plan issue. We have to defend the middle of the ground better. Placing many players behind the ball when play is on the wing is only a situation to execute when we need to close the game down. Watts should not be gap filler in EVERY game.

I closely examined the Hawks at the stoppages. They defend the area of the ground where the ball is, not where it could be. If a ball up is on the wing, their defensive structure defends that space. Their midfielders, half forward etc.. set up a zone 40 metres either side of the ball. Yes, they also keep 2 or 3 players way back in defence totally unmanned so they can do that switch they do so well, but they don't add too many to that area while play is on the wing.

Our defensive structure of starting too far back is as week as Knight's poor defensive structuree at Essendon in 2010. I am a Dean bBiley fan but this is not a winning formula and will be obliterated by finals football.

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6. Jones

5. Martin

4. Petterd

3. Rivers

2. Howe

1. Bate

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The Good

Jones.

Stef Martin.

Matthew Bate.

Our physical effort (with some horrible exceptions)

The Bad

Ability to keep it inside our forward 50

Our handball to a close, stationary target, where a Hawks player swoops in on the run and they carry it forward with ease.

Hawthorn's uncontested possession count.

Brad Green has to stop flying for marks that spoil his team mates clear advantage in a marking contest.

The Ugly

Fumbling. Even the smooth, efficient kills of Trengove were fumbly today.

Unforced turnovers. Maric did a shocker on the southern half forward line near the boundary but there were many of these.

Marking targets inside 50

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I really hope Howe is not the sub. He is a natural forward and his disposal on both sides of his body is really good. His tackling has been both surprising and effective. He could be one of those to man up across our half forward line and stop their switch. I wonder if Nev Jetta's pace could also be used cross our half forwad line to intercept and frustrate thier chipping game.

A great comment from above by Jumbo: The Hawks niggle, punch, scrag, bump - anything to unsettle the opposition. I can see Moloney, Jones, Sylvia Green, Jamar, Tapscott being able to handle this but not many others. Jurrah, Watts, Garland, Strauss, Nicholson, Scully, Gysberts, Howe:- can they play good footy for four quarters with this sort of attention? IMO, not for four quarters just yet. If they actually do it for four quarters, I reckon we win the game.

I also wonder if we have left behind that stupid strategy of no-one in our forward line when we win it at half-back or midfield? The Carlton game, the North game, and many others. Our midfielders had no problem winning the ball but looked up to see no options. Or, they handball 8 times under pressure and turn it over.

We must do the bullying.

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Great thread. Good to focus on a game of footy for a change. All that Malthouse stuff, clubs finances, selling games interstate etc... leaves me cold.

The main issue for the Dees is the midfield. Hawks have bigger bodies than our boys and have, over the past few seasons monstered us at stoppages. That shocker earlier this year is a prime example of being physically dominated by bigger bodies. Because of this I would not be playing Morton or Gysberts. Morton - because when he chooses not to commit to a contest, or fumbles, he then gets pushed off the play or looses interest. Gysberts - his small frame would see his usually good skills collapse under pressure, or he will just get pushed aside too often.

Also, the Hawks game is set up by their left-foot half back line. Our half forwards should all play man on man and give them no switch room. If we can thwart their switch-play off half back we have gone a long way to dismantling their game plan.

Our big plus is in the ruck. But Mitchell and Burgoyne are great readers of whoever is winning the ruck contest. We must ensure that these two don't spend the day roving off Jamar and Stef. Scully will be vital with his pace and I wish Bail was ready to go. Jones, Moloney and Sylvia are vital.

I wouldn't be putting McKenzie on Hodge or Mitchell. As of yet, he has not developed the footy smarts or physical size to combat these two, but I cannot think of a good match up. Savage perhaps?

Garland on Buddy. He is a really good spoiler and this leaves Frawley free-er to break the lines and deliver to our half forwards.

Nicholson on Rioli. He has to concentrate 100% just on Rioli. He has the early acceleration and pace to go with Rioli and can be damaging on the attack.

I am unsure about Hodge because this year he has played a stopping role on oposition players. He might take Petterd. If this is the case, take Hodge to the goalsquare.

A couple of things in our facvour:

Do they have a player who can run all day with Watts? I don't think so - I just hope they don't put Hodge on him.

Can they stop Stef Martin and his second efforts that see him putting it inside our forward 50?

This could be a close game and they have a lot of younger boys also. Unfortunately, I reckon the Hawks by 20 points.

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I am looking forward to the next four weeks. Can we be consistent? Can we play 4 quarters? It is likely we won't win one of these games, however...

Hawks. We are a slight chance here. We have improved but are likely again to get flogged at the stoppages. Probably Hawks by 35+ points

Geelong. I reckon we have a shot at this. They are really shakey at the moment and even the Lions matched them for 75% of the game. Last year they only beat us by 11 points (I think) and I reckon the work of Jamar and Stef will give us first use.

Carlton. I am a bit 50-50 with this one. As long as Robinson gets sat on his backside I will be sort of happy. The Blues are suspect and aprt from a gun midfield have real problems down back and I can't see anyone handling Watts' run and aerobic capacity.

West Coast. Payback time and we should be angry.

I reckon we will win one of either Cats or Blues, and come close in another. The other will be a flogging. This just happens to be a pattern at the moment.

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We play Hawthorn and we need to pick a side to match them. They slaughterd us at the MCG earlier this year, and it was mainly due to the big bodies of their midfield - Sewell, Mitchell, Burgoyne etc... I don't remember the exact stats but our stoppage numbers were way down. Gysberts was really inefficient last night with lazy and poor disposal, and will get monstered by the Hawks midfield. I would consider giving him a rest, or maybe as the sub. He is a genuine talent and I love much of his work but he won't stand up to the physicality of the Hawks. I also reckon Strauss may struggle even though I think he has a place in our current 22. I can see Rioli running around him, Osborne out-muscling him, or someone like Guerra running through him.

Morton is going to be a real worry against the Hawks. He will play because he seems to be a favourite, but his lack of confidence, fumbling and lack of physical presence may give the Hawks an easy avenue to work through.

OUT : Gysberts, Nicholson,

IN : Davey, Joel MacDonald

POSSIBLY : If Scully needs a rest, I wonder if we should also consider bringing in Bartram for Rioli?

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Green - strong and active

Jones - not as dynamic

Watts - just OK game

Gysberts - some dreadful disposal

Frawley - move over Scarlett

Trengove - quality and excellence

Morton - feeble and fumbly

Sylvia - flair and strength

McKenzie - an OK game

Petterd - creative and gutsy

Maric - quality small forward

Garland - mr. reliable again

Moloney - quieter but effective

Jurrah - class and aggro

Rivers - standard Rivers game

Scully - beaten by tagger

Martin - versatile, skillful, 4-quarters

Tapscott - good first game

Howe - shouldn't be sub

Jamar - played his part

Strauss - an OK game

Nicholson - loved his effort

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6 - Stefan Martin

5 - Colin Slvia

4 - Jack Trengove

3 - James Frawley

2 - Ricky Petterd

1 - Addam Maric

We have to keep Max Gawn. Obviously a lot of clubs will circle and make offers etc... They would be mad not to. But looking at his Casey and Melbourne form, Gawn has skill, aggression, ruck nouse, can take a mark and he is HUGE. Spencer's position looks the most vulnerable because Fitzpatrick has shown little so far. I would be happy to offer Spencer if we had to absorb any ruck trade pressure.

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In my best ever 22 this bloke is the coach, just above Leigh Matthews. Sourpuss - yes. Disdain for the media - yes. One word answers that infuriated everyone - yes. But his boys played with a fire and a freedom that every team aspires to but few reach. Who could foget those Hawks of the 80's? Disciplined, tough, skillful, and those 2 or three with flair.

Great coach Yabbie - well done.

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Melbourne should be planning to have the ball in thier hands a lot, and play positive, strong football. WE can't underestimate Port - they usually play 2 - 3 quarters of good footy and so do we so it is not going to be as easy as it appears on the surface. But man for man we have a much more sillful starting 22, and a lot more grunt players (which in light of some refent efforts says a bit about Port). The sure hands of Gysberts, Trengove and Watts should be too much for them.

Dangers:

Schulz. Frawley should tear him apart, or Garland with his amazing spoiling attributes.

Gray. A really good footballer who is playing brilliant footy in a poor side.

Rodan. Bennell to run with him and run off him. Rodan is only quick off the mark - he can be caught after 10 metres or so. Bennell is quick off the mark and continues to accelerate. On recent form, Bennell does not deserve his place but it is horses for courses and he should play in Darwin.

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When I wrote the topic up this morning, I really wanted to give a big-picture perspective of the game, without focusing only on the poorer parts of the game. I reckon we have a great list, a game plan that can work, and a coach who is ready to do the hard yards. But when we lose... we get monstered.

But even I can't get a grip on these matters:

• Our lack of leadership when we are losing, especially when opposition get 3-4 goals in a row. Moloney can hold his head up - very little has diverted him from being physical and vocal. Rivers has been good this year but his leadership is limited. Green & Davey have been very disappointing in terms of leadership. Looking back on Neitz, Viney, Lyon - its a great pity to see such hesitant and ineffectual leadership.
  
• Our lack of aggro and intensity. We rarely have even 5 players play with a "hunter" mentality even when we win. Maybe the Richmond game was the only exception. McKenzie and Trengove should be learning this, not leading it.
  

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