nutbean

I think Bail is very hard but as mentioned above he can lack subtlety ( or grey matter) in that a lot of the times he goes in at 100 miles an hour and gives away a free kick. My knock on him is his disposable is average at best.

Yes but AD will think it has had a happy ending - tanking is finally put to bed

I dont think the AFL will even be that magnanimous - i am tipping "inconclusive and insufficient evidence to bring charges" ( the slap your having when you're not having a slap)

All good points but irrelevant - we are not judging him on what he did outside the MFC - we are shining the spotlight at what he did during his time as President and his recent comments as Ex President regarding the club. I dont think it is unfair to acknowledge that someone succeeded in most areas of his life but in another area he was found wanting. Edit: I just read BH's post and tend to agree that whilst I am not privvy to all his work as President each time he opened his mouth ... ughh ... culminating in his spirited defense of his presidency in the papers late last year and distancing himself from any wrongdoing - these comments were apparently done according to some with the best interests of the club at heart.

I hereby decree that the word "star" can only be used in the past or present tense - DEFINITELY not in the future tense ( I have been burned one too many times)

Its not Watt's fault - the footy department didnt play him early enough or enough times in his first year, played in an unusual position with limited rotations and he was told to fumble.

Its like the road rules stating 1/ its an offense to drive too fast and also an offense to drive badly.

I dont give a rats what others think about us because I have enough insight to realise EXACTLY what others think of us. I will care about what others think about us when we become hated ( which means we are successful) as opposed to the current pitying.

Its only football and my personality doesnt allow me to backtrack after the event. So in the spirit of true "out"manship - I was "newton" about Scully and I was "newton" about Gysberts. I was also "newton" about Jai Sheahan. Here's hoping I am not "newton" about my two latest hobby horses - the "no charges to answer in the tanking investigation" and "Jeremy Howe you are gonna be a superstar".

I have thought all along that it wont even come to a fight as there will be no charges to answer. Every fight the AFL picks, they usually are the the combatants, judge and jury. If they choose to fight by laying charges which we challenge in court, they lose the power to control the outcome. I dont think that want this with 5 other clubs that could face the same court defined scrutiny. The courts will not state that other clubs need to be charged etc but if they uphold any charges laid against us there will be meat on the bones of the AFL laws and rules governing this area - we will know exactly what actions we took that constituted "tanking" and then the media scrum will be baying for blood - e.g. Strange positional moves are tanking - Carlton ? Not coaching to ensure the teams success - Terry Wallace and Richmond. As it stands now, there are no practical defined actions under the existing rules - this will change in court and i feel sure that the AFL does not want to have investigate and possible charge 5 other clubs. For this reason alone, we cannot afford to blink - no buckling - keep towing the same line - you charge us AFL and we will defend ourselves in court.

since we are being retrospectively hounded by the AFL, keeping with that theme, I will retrospectively out myself and say that i didnt vote but I was an unabashed Juice lover. I always claimed that he could have been anything and I was proven right - he turned out to be anything but an AFL footballer - damn.

Interesting theory - I think completely opposite - Vlad wouldnt have been happy and part of the reason why AA is no longer in his current gig - but we are both speculating.

I agree with WYL that the commission and Vlad are on the same page or Vlad position becomes untenable ( despite his utterings mentioned by BH). I have never bought into this investigation being about finding out if we tanked and what should happen. I think Vlad never wanted this to investigation in the first place and this is an exercise in "closure with minimal damage to the AFLs reputation ". Vlad has denied tanking since Moses was playing fullback for the Jerusalem seconds, he goes away for five minutes and AA fires up an investigation on the back of McLeans stupid utterings. I believe Vlad's hand is now back firmly on the wheel and will he stage manage how this plays out. A couple more weeks and we will know.

I'll meet you halfway. How about Hawthorn, Richmond, Collingwood , Carlton and west coast go first and admit that winning wasn't a priority then we would consider doing the same.

I have high hopes - and at this stage he is a star - twinkling every now and then from afar but alot of the time you gotta squint to see it.

I've got nothing to say so I am going to say nothing at all - except for this which is something but really nothing.

Im not sure it will be curtains if we bend over but I have supported this club through good times and bad and good decisions and bad decisions - rolling over would rate as the worst decision I can remember (disclaimer - I need to temper this by stating that I am basing this on media reports of the evidence to hand - ie no smoking gun - just evidence of positional moves, rotations, silly CC comments, fumbling and Jack Watts not playing and missing out on the brownlow )

Was it here or 'ology that Craig Cameron used to visit at draft time and if my very dodgy memory serves me right I think Cam Schwab came on here as well .

I just hope the players and coach dont read this site !

The difference between Caro and Denham - Caro has runs on the board, is intelligent and widely read. She has the supreme talent of blending a heavy dose of opinion with a pinch of fact and coming up with an exclusive. I find her dangerous because she has the one attribute that Denham doesnt have - many people take Caro seriously. I have yet to hear the word "respected" ever put before the word journalist when it comes to Denham the dill. He doesnt anger me as he is irrelevant as a reporter or commentator on all things football.

"Paul Gardner love the Melbourne Footy club and that is his motivation" - well his actions and comments of last year according to most on here speak otherwise. If that was his idea of love he had a strange way of showing it and you are 100% correct I have no way of knowing what is inside one mans mind so it is my opinion and I would never be as arrogant to read into someones motivation and label it as fact the same way that you suggest he loves the club and thats his motivation can only be your opinion. If Paul Gardner loves the club as you think then I would have much preferred your answer to be "he really loves the club but could have done better on this one or given his time again he may have spoken differently". I am not sure you find a single supporter on here that will support the notion that Paul Gardners comments last year were motivated by love for the club. Again - Please note that I have limited my criticism of Paul Gardner to his press statements regarding tanking

I need to take you to task on this. Paul Gardner came out and had his say last year in a very public manner - very unneccessarily in my opinion and with little regard for the club. I have not launched a broadside at him for all the wrongs of the world. I have limited my comments to criticising him for the comments he made at one particular time and I stand by my comments. If you really want to call my criticism "character assassination" then all i can do is retort by suggesting to you that you have not offered an alternative motivation for his comments and short of substance you have gone with character assassination. I ask again - would you care to venture an opinion as to Paul Gardners motivation for his comments ?

Firstly please quote my whole post - I said that I'll take your word for it that he is a good bloke and capable - I would have thought that would be a bit of hint that I dont know him save his public appearances during his tenure As DC said in the post above and I'll ask you the question - do you think his statements to the press last year were helpful. If you were the sitting board would you be enamoured with the comments that this immediate past president made. And lastly, when he came out and stated ( and i paraphrase) that there was no tanking under my watch but if the club is found guilty of tanking punish the individuals not the club - tell me what you think his motivation for the statements was ? Do you believe he had the clubs best interest at heart when he made the comments ? I stand by my opinion Paul Gardner was only interested in making sure that Paul Gardner was distanced from any smell of wrongdoing.

I take your word for it that he is a capable and decent bloke but he absolutely lost me when he potted the club . Brock McLean is a dill and know no better but an ex-president should know better. When Paul Gardner came out in the press late last year he was thinking only of Paul Gardner not the Melbourne Football Club

I can do some finger pointing at things the club could be doing better but their handling of this crisis has to date been excellent. 1/ They hadnt seen the evidence from the investigators so they "laid low" - good strategy - dont get into a shitfight with the AFL until you know what cards they are holding. Contrast that to Adelaide - indignant with the AFL that simply had done nothing wrong in the Tippett case right until the AFL laid he evidence on the tableand then they changed their tune in a hurry. 2/ Make it clear with a broad statement " we will fight you and take you to court if necessary" - the club did not actually say what they would fight or who or why - they just sent a clear message that the club would not roll over 3/ Hire the Fink - if you are going to get into a dick waving contest with the AFL - we just showed the AFL that we have John Holmes 4/ Leak the absurdities and negatives of the investigation - if this was the club well done. 5/ Do not come out and say "what about the other clubs" - that is a guilty plea - they did so so did we. There is time enough to bring up accepted precendents if this goes to court ( which I highly doubt) I am more than happy on how the club have handled this matter to date