P-man

If memory serves, he was granted a few days personal leave and was back at training not long after that. Are they really comparable? I actually agree the thread should be locked til we have any further developments to discuss.

I wouldn't be betting against Hogan joining him if he doesn't start to play with these boys soon and develop some sort of affection for the club. People shrugged off the Freo scarf photo, but they're kidding themselves imo. A kid like Hogan won't waste his time and generational talents on a cellar dweller he doesn't give two hoots about. Is having so many talls injured just plain old bad luck or does it go to conditioning? Even by Melbourne standards, it is bad. Three pre-seasons and our boys don't look much fitter on match day to my eyes, if at all. I guess Roos trusts Misson so we back him in, but it doesn't alter the fact he is one of the last remnants of a 3 year period that has been a cataclysmic failure.

No offense but comments like this are becoming embarrassing. Natanui was so superior in his contributions yesterday it doesn't bare thinking. Stick to Watts being the better player if you must, but please don't use yesterday's game as evidence of it because that is ridiculous. Watts had a mare. Nothing even close to a pass mark for mine. If anything he appears slower than last season which is significantly affecting his ability to compete. It's sad to witness what has happened to him, but he's not cutting it.

rjay - agreed on Cross. Didn't really consider him as an old timer and looking ahead. He did the jumper proud today.

Deserves a start next week. A tiny glimmer of light when he came on. Needs game time.

Keep turning them through til we find 22 good enough who care enough. In: Viney, Garland, Kent, McKenzie(?)/Evans Out: M Jones, Fitzpatrick, Bail, Trengove

6. Jones 5. Tyson 4. Cross 3. Dunn 2. Byrnes 1. Terlich

I've run out of words to describe him. He's a hero in my eyes. Nothing short of it.

Absolute yes: Jones Tyson Vince Garland Frawley Clark Yes in all likelihood: Hogan Viney A very hesitant yes: Howe Dawes McDonald Dunn Terlich* So 13. The rest range from suspect to nowhere near. *may stand out because he doesn't play like he's constantly terrified of making a mistake

Yep, I was laughing today. What's the alternative? Crying?

I would tend to disagree based on my experiences. He would know if he still has a desire to play football again. He clearly isn't in the frame of mind to dedicate himself to it, but I believe he would know if the desire is there or not. It is situations like this where being on the outer is really frustrating, that's all.

Roos can cut whoever the hell he wants at season's end. Jones and Tyson are safe. That's it.

I'm well aware of all that. But does he still WANT to play footy? Can anyone honestly answer that? We have no idea. Some transparency in that regard would be good. It would certainly make it less frustrating. And the timing is hugely frustrating. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

Dawes isn't going to be a huge improvement, and Hogan is a first year player. They aren't Clark by any stretch. I don't want it to be seen as hassling. But being in the dark on where he is at is frustrating, moreso when watching him focus on his photography with such enthusiasm, which we are paying him to do. I'd like to know if and when he is coming back, and for someone in his situation, that isn't unreasonable. I have sympathy and I'm backing the club in, but it only extends so far.

I hate to say it, but I'd like to know now if he is going to come back and if so, when. If he wants to take photos of his girlfriend all day that's fine, but his absence is hurting big time. He needs to make a choice. Does he want to play footy anymore or not? The hope is worse than the reality if it is empty hope.

Will be lucky to kick another.

The wastefulness inside 50 is actually amazing.

Fitz with 3 touches. I honestly can't recall any of them.

Blow the damn siren.

I'll admit that showing from Sydney tonight says they may have some real problems. Collingwood were awful. They should have buried them twice over. They will surely produce a lot better than what we've seen so far but they aren't looking anything like a contender.

Why should his entire career suffer because of the incompetent peanuts that have been running the show for the past decade? He didn't ask for the horrendous drafting for one. He had absolutely no say in that. People say he hasn't improved. Perhaps not. He still accounts for his man more often than not. He still does his primary role, more often than not. You need to be realistic. Everything is a two way street.

There's an idea. The banner can be the top of Jonesy's dome.

Frawley is one player and he's had a gutful of losing on the weekend, year after year after year. He's good enough to play in premiership sides. I won't blame him one iota for leaving.

The example you give with Maxwell actually contradicts rjay, and I'm not sure how Viney's attack on the ball is relevant to a debate about talent vs mental strength. Having a will for the contest is a positive, not a negative. I'm with Gonzo and Soidee. The mental part of the game is enormous. Confidence breeds. We have none of it.

On the plus side, we should have a winnable game against the Pies this year. They look ordinary with not many names to come back.