bing181

Collingwood have a history of "culture" issues, it's only 12 months ago that the shot hit the fan when Darren Jolly also managed to get himself offside. On leaving he made the point that there were "a select few that are a bit of a problem", and also commented that some at Collingwood didn't like players speaking out or challenging the status quo. Not been the same club on or off field since Malthouse left.

Go and watch the Dane Swan footage on one of the footy shows where he talks about Harry - and says he hopes he stays. His description of him is the complete opposite of the picture you paint - though you don't know HL in any case, so how the (*&^%$ would you know what he's actually like? You might also like to go back to the original story - HL didn't "attack people", or attack anyone for that matter. He complained to the club that they weren't doing enough in response to what had happened. etc etc My god ... the longer this goes on, the more I hope he comes to the Dees.

I'm in the "if this is all off the mark, why haven't Clark or his manager said anything to deny it" camp. Even a "we're exploring options, no decisions have been taken, we'll sit down with Josh Mahoney next week" would be something. Not sure where Mitch is at in all this, it's not making a lot of sense to be honest. We've all made the mistake of thinking that a new environment will be enough to cure our woes, but it's rarely the case.

He could change a game off his own boot.

Ah yes, my mistake. Perhaps gives us slightly more leverage, but still, plenty of questions over Mitch's capability to come back to the highest level. I doubt we'd get anything above round 2 or equivalent for him.

He's contracted till Oct 31. If he's go to a club of his choice, that would have to be via a trade, which would have to be during the trade period, which is prior to the expiration of his contract. On the other hand, if that fell through, I would presume he could go to a club of his choice in the delisted FA period, where we'd get nothing. The latter would appear to reduce our negotiating power - this would be on the assumption that both sides (Melb and Mitch) think it's best to "move on". As such, and given his recent history and the uncertainties surrounding it - including whether or not his body can stand up to the rigours of AFL footy - I don't know that we'd be able to get much more than a second round pick for him. The trade with Collingwood for HL - a player who's still averaging 20 disposals a match, is only a year older than Mitch and has no injury issues - may not be as inequitable as it sounds.

Sure, but that's not what people are saying here. I don't see too many saying "you were right Harry, what was written on the poster perpetrates stereotypes, and is a put-down, and yes, the club should have acted on it, but perhaps you should have just kept it to yourself". Anyway, would be more than happy to have him come to the club, he would bring something both on and off the field, and from what I can see from what people who know him are saying, no-one's questioning his professionalism as a footballer.

If gay men are normal, what would gay behaviour be, overt or not?

We may just have reached a new low.

You would think that our ex-Collingwood personnel in Jason Taylor and Chris Dawes would have a comprehensive insider's view on HL, and if that's good enough for Roos and the club, good enough for me. So much speculation here, where in reality We Just Don't Know.

Only if you wanted to keep it quiet.

Agree. We can just about add him to the Clark/Hogan/Trengove MIA list, so hopefully he'll be another useful "addition" next year.

The big worry on that list isn't Watts, he's about where we thought he'd be, it's Grimes (OK, missed a few games, but still, that's a fair way down for the co-captain) but moreso Garland, who was second last year.

3 of the new boys in the top 5 of the Bluey. Who said we can't draft/trade?

Maybe because they've taken a break and there's not much happening? Nah, would be too obvious, gotta be some kind of Melbourne-sucks-at-everything going on.

Best team man.

You're not alone, even though it doesn't surprise me. More's the pity. Roos summed it up well. "AN INCREDULOUS Paul Roos has left Melbourne players Dean Terlich and Alex Georgiou in no doubt that their 'Mad Monday' costume was completely unacceptable, with the duo to face a club-imposed sanction."

Spoke too soon. Burning dwarfs is so last year.

Hmm. My recollection is that he did his hammy before pre-season started, was then eased into it, but was in everything from Christmas onwards. Put it this way, he certainly had a more substantial pre-season than Dawes, Gawn, Jamar, Kent, Salem, Riley, Viney, Fitzpatrick and Garland ... and maybe others that I'm overlooking (Clisby).

Worth watching in the context of some of this discussion is the new film "Draft Day". OK, it's American Football, and the trade/draft system is different, but there are any number of parallels, including clubs being pressurised by fans' expectations into making, well, unwise decisions.

Key word in that sentence is "rumour". Arbitrary/interchangeable words include Watts, Collingwood, Sidebottom ... substitute "any player" and "any club".

Still feel many people underestimate the impact the loss - or more specifically, the non-return - of Clark had on us. On-field and off. PJ said as much as well. Season has to be judged in that light. Feel that there's a lot more going right than wrong, but for the moment, we're just not seeing the results - though we were getting somewhere across the middle of the season. Plenty of upside with the young players, including the likes of Harmes and hopefully, Hunt, but thank god Roos is staying 3 years, we're going to need all of them to even start looking like a respectable footy team.

Oh for god's sake. We are not shot, we are not finished, we are not a basket case. We have experienced, successful, insightful, capable people involved at the club, led by Roos and Jackson. It's a process. The year was garbage, but nothing like the garbage of the last few, and heavily compromised by the blight of (serious) injuries to a handful of the key players we needed to help take the off-field work on-field. Add Hogan, Clark, a fit Trengove, full pre-seasons into Kent, Riley, Jamar, Garland, Gawn and Dawes ... oh what might have been. People forget that we started the year with a makeshift forward line, and the only ruck we could get out there was Spencer. I also don't think people should underestimate how catastrophic it was to lose Clark - we'd been without him for so long it's easy to forget, but he was pretty well the one player we had who could have made a difference just being out there.

Rather have to be teaching disposal than teaching intent and hardness at the ball. He'll learn, even if that just means learning to keep it simple and not do anything fancy.

Well, probably a slightly more positive note to end on than last year. Liked a few of the younger players, Kent in particular showed a bit more maturity and cool-headedness than what we've seen so far. Now just need that to rub off on a few of the others. A bit sad that our better players were the imports: Vince, Cross, Tyson, even Mitchie and Riley.