DeeSpencer

I could understand Fitzy but there is no reason to hold Davis or Magner back unless they are truly injured. Where's the incentive from Melbournes perspective?

Yeah we could call up the saints or bulldogs and offer up a swap of pick 1 for pick 3 or 4 plus something else in the draft - second round pick maybe. Then we get the midfielder we want (hopefully) and a bonus pick. But the image problem is bad enough without us finishing last. If GWS go for Franklin I wouldn't be surprised to see them do that very trade. I'm sure the saints in particular would love to get a gun key forward in just when Riewoldt is probably going for his last year. Give the guy a year in and out of the team learning from a great and then hand it over to him.

Our team might have a lot of unestablished players but most of them when in the VFL play pretty good football. Especially our best 22 all dominate at Casey. When you look at Carlton's worst 10 as I have you find that none of them hold their spot in the Carlton team with any regularity. And if we've learnt something from this whole Byrnes, Pedersen, Rodan, Sellar mess it's that if you can't keep a spot in one team going to a worse team won't necessarily mean you'll be consistent 22. Of those 4 it's the smalls in Rodan and Byrnes who have got the most games because that's where we have been weak but the point remains. Sydney, last years premiers bottom 10 wouldn't get a regular game or even any kind of game at most clubs as most are young and have never played. It's why Mitch Morton was an emergency then in to the grand final. Depth is hard to find these days.

Carlton's bottom 10 NOT including rookies: YES: · Jeremy Laidler: Hard to work out what happened to this guy, MM clearly not a fan. But I think he'd be ahead of Lynden Dunn as a versatile 3rd tall defender and free up Garland to negate dangerous smalls · David Ellard: As a midfielder/half forward who can run and go hard at the ball would see regular game time despite small frame Maybe · Simon White: 3rd tall defender who attacks the contest and can take a mark. Again better than Dunn. Currently has a broken neck · Nick Duigan: Half back or forward who attacks the ball, limited skill but I think he’d hold a place in our best 22 or thereabouts. · Shaun Hampson: Would compete with Fitzpatrick for second ruck/forward as he’s a better ruck but not convinced he’s at all a better forward. Of course doesn’t compare to Clark if he takes over that role No: · Aaron Joseph: Small defender not better than Clisby or Terlich · Sam Rowe: Depth tall forward who can ruck, isn’t of the class of Dawes or Clark · Pat McCarthy: Young tall defender often injured, hasn’t shown he’s better than Tom McDonald · Luke Mitchell: Young key forward often injured, again not better than a Dawes or Clark · Marcus Davies: 190cm defender with shaky disposal and defensive skill. Not a better player than Garland or Terlich So as far as picking up anyone off the scrap heap for Carlton I'd consider a rookie spot for Duigan or Laidler if they were let go. I'd take Ellard but I think he's probably the best player on this list. Otherwise I wouldn't be interested in any of the rest. Shows the damage GWS and Gold Coast have done to the other clubs lists. There isn't much young talent to come through for Carlton either.

Not to mention we'd have the whole Tom Boyd drama as to whether we pick him and screw our list balance or pass on the best kid in the draft. I'm happy with pick 2, let the big guy go and get our pick of the midfield talent. Worked well in 2007 when Carlton tanker harder and longer than we ever did to win the Kruezer cup, picked the acne covered battler and let Richmond run away to the bank with their current captain.

No Gawn, Howe, Tapscott or Jetta in the Casey team to play Friday night. So you can almost expect those 4 to play on Sunday. Interesting to see which or any of the other 3 (Taggert, Sellar or Bail) get held over as emergencies or to play Sunday.

The starting 18, especially when you put Gawn in the ruck instead of Spencer isn't actually too bad. It's our first choice backline, decent enough forward line and about the best midfield we can muster. But picking the 4 for the bench and the 3 emergencies is a nightmare.

Can't kick, Can't mark, Can't run, big Max!, can't find the ball. But in more positive news Can run, kicks well for a big bloke, can tackle, big Max!, will be on debut Come to think of it if we had Bail's fitness, Sellar's mature body, Jetta's tackling and lateral movement, Gawn's swag and Taggert's mystery it would be a great in!

The only reason would be so that you leave a dominant ruck in Gawn at Casey. Geelong have promoted West and rested Vardy so there is an opportunity to get the better of them in the ruck. Dropping one guy who's played way more games than he's deserved for another who's played way more games than his deserved this year! I used to like Bail but he's been nothing but rubbish this season besides when he's been injured. But back to your first post Tapscott is contracted where Bail is out of contract I believe, and that could make all the difference.

Sellar v Gawn for the ruck/forward spot is interesting. Depends if you want Casey to win or not I guess. But then again I'm not sure a team will ever win a game with Spencer and Gawn in the side, both offer so little up forward. Bring back the Fitz! Besides that you'd think Howe was better last week and if fit keeps his spot. The final 2 spots could be out of Tapscott, Jetta, Taggert and Bail. Talk about minimal care factor. Everyone wants to see Taggert play but that's probably just for a change up rather than for any real form or expectation. Maybe go with Taggert for something different and pick one of the other 3 as the sub. Isn't much point playing Taggert as a sub, seems such a waste.

Western Bulldogs v Melbourne Etihad Stadium. Sunday September 1, 4.40pm AEST WESTERN BULLDOGS In: A.Cooney, L.Jones, M.Talia, N.Hrovat Out: D.Addison MELBOURNE In: R.Bail, J.Sellar, N.Jetta, M.Gawn, R.Taggert Out: D.Rodan (knee), C.Pedersen Handy in for the dogs. Can't say the same for us.

In these days of subs it potentially makes sense. Play 3 emergencies and let 1 only play 3/4 or even 1/2 and they can be sub the next day. Although you don't want to be caught short in the AFL, not a good look for a professional team

Dank suggesting names of NRL talent for them to have a look at as well. So not only was he their resident biochemist he was giving them recruiting tips. And now they say he was a complete outsider and they had no knowledge of his program?

And she'll prattle on about how Dustin Martin is up to no good and then when it suits she'll write a piece about how well Richmond have done managing him and that he should accept whatever contract they offer. It would be much better if she just reported and let us use our brain to determine the opinions. Every one of her pieces in an opinion piece these days.

Sounds like an ad on craigslist

Wait so now it's the players fault? I can blame the coaches but I can't see how it's the players fault. The way I see it the AFL got spooked by 2 things: 1. The success of Sydney in 2005 based upon a heavy stoppage game. And say what you want if you have poor skilled teams playing heavy contested footy it's going to be low scoring and boring. 2. Dangerous collision injuries from players been faster and heavier. So all the rule changes have been about trying to change one of those 2 things. The kick in rules, the relaxing holding the ball in space but pinging it quickly under a pack, the ruck rules, the 30 second for goal rules. It's all about getting the players to run quicker and longer and get out of congestion, then at the same time avoid injuries. So the coaches said there is no way that our midfielders can do 120 minutes of this stuff, so they'll have to rotate through the benches. Then the AFL goes the other way and now wants the game to be played out of congestion but also with players at a much slower speed. It's a difficult conundrum and I've seen no obvious example on how to keep the game safe and be the best product.

Luke Darcy and Damian Barrett both want Jones captain. That's plenty enough reason for me not to pick him. But seriously I have heard from informed sources that Jones isn't really a great leader. That he'll do his own thing and muck around with Magner at training but he isn't really in with a lot of the group. I would've thought that a real leader would be one that the guys want to be around. Jones may well still be the best that we've got but I'm not sure he's the standout leader we all think.

Ok now you are proving you are a mup. You just said Dunn is a good, accurate kick. When this year he's proven not to be. Watch his long bomb kick outs. Kick outs are the hardest kicks in football but the long bomb to a ruckman leading wide 60m out is one of the easiest because you know how long you've got, you know where to kick it and you just execute the kick. Dunn continues to kick it to the wrong side of the contest. Also you are lying because on post 54 of this thread you presented stats on Dunn v Gibson and argued they are similar footballers. You've backed up my belief that you have no understand of stats in a football match with your bigfooty thread. Even since you've backed down from that position it's one you should never had held. Because anyone can tell that a stab pass is a much better kick in to a forward line that a bomb. But that takes no account into what the other team were doing. If you midfield is crushing the opposition with run and inside and outside play you can stab it in. But if the opposition is up in your face making you move the ball very slowly and under immense pressure then you can't stab it and have to bomb it. That's why you won't see Aaron Davey getting the ball on a half forward flank under no pressure from an opponent and stab passing it lace out to a leading Brad Green who's tearing some 3rd game a new one come finals. You'll have Kieran Jack who's run all day sprinting off his opponent from the midfield under immense gut running to then get the ball and deliver a shaky but accurate left foot punt to a Kurt Tippett who's outbodied and out sprinted a gun defender to mark the ball. At the end of the day we aren't so much arguing about Dunn. I think we are arguing about our list and list management. Dunn is a half decent back pocket who can play tall and small a little and isn't particularly good with the ball. We kind of agree on that. But those in the anti Dunn camp like me think that makes him a waste of space. Those pro Dunn like you think well at least he's not complete crud. But I look at Dane Rampe from the swans who's come in to his first AFL season and is already a better player than Dunn. That's our argument.

A nice change. But in some ways you are better to finish 7th than 6th but that means losing a final so fair enough. Where it really kicks in is it's better to finish 13th than 12th but again there's usually a gap at that stage of the ladder between those fighting for 8th and those right out of the picture.

What standing. The VFA gave up it's own standing when it became the VFL and relied upon the AFL to help it survive as a professional league. Most of the clubs have now worked something out. Northern Bullants and Box Hill have folded into their AFL alignments, Port and Frankston stand alone, Willy will join them, North Ballarat and Werribee enjoy a split a alignment. Casey and Melbourne remain together because the matter is both clubs can't live without each other. And yes we've treated them badly the previous 2 years but at the moment we (and they) have been hit with a bad dose of injury trouble at the wrong time of the season. It seems Hogan got injured, Rodan got injured, Couch got injured, Strauss, Burns and Blease all did contact injuries. Strauss and Blease I believe needed their surgeries regardless. I don't think they could've been delayed and even if they were they were probably out 4 weeks recovering just to play 1 match maybe. As I said feel bad for Casey. But this is the same club who hired Fev when we pleaded with them not to. If anything they still owe us one.

FB: Garland Frawley Dunn HB: Grimes McDonald Terlich C: Toumpas Jones M. Jones HF: Kent Dawes Howe FF: Davey Fitzpatrick Watts Foll: Gawn McKenzie Viney Int: Trengove, Sylvia, Barry S: Tapscott Out: Rodan, Pedersen, Spencer In: Gawn, Fitzpatrick, Barry We owe it to us and the players to play Gawn and Fitzy if he's available and that means Spencer and Pedersen out. After that it's finding a replacement for Rodan. And whilst Tapscott, Matt Jones and some others haven't done much recently there isn't much at Casey worth bringing up. Tynan and Taggert haven't done enough. Jetta, no thanks. No point playing Magner it doesn't make sense to do it now. So the one I keep thinking about even though he's unlikely to be ready is Barry. He missed a simple shot to win Casey the game apparently but he also rebounded well from injury and has been building all season. This might be considered racists as well but with Davey playing his last game (and they better give him a whole match) why not give a young indigenous guy a game with his mentor.

They should either finish last or be stripped of points and finals but attributed their final ladder position for the purposes of draft picks ie. be 7th or whatever they were set to finish as. I don't understand 9th either.

I didn't like the idea because: 1. The did a freaking walk. I know it's bloody hot and it would've been taxing but walks are for fat blokes and women not AFL footballers. 2. The did a couple of other training sessions with only minimal football in them due to the hot and slippery conditions 3. I'm not convinced it helped them improve power or football ability I like the idea of a camp and a get away. In fact they should string the camp onto our community camp and do two birds with one stone. But personally I'd like to see them hire an oval down gippsland or phillip island or wherever our community camp is and keep practicing footy skills. There's plenty of good sand dunes for fitness training sessions down that way. I know the swans have been doing beach training and the hawks as well I think and that sounds pretty good to me. Better than a walk through Kakadu sweating your nuts off but not actually getting meaningful training done.

Yeah but surely there are different punishments for the different levels of disrepute? Wasn't Hird himself charged with the same where he made comments about umpire McLaren? And surely Essendon's level of disrepute far out ranks Melbourne's who everyone in AFL knows just did what a whole bunch of clubs had done before.

Autocol you can argue all you like about statistics because I just don't think you can use statistics in AFL to compare players with any kind of accuracy. You can argue who is the better kick or who gets more ball or who is a better tackler but in terms of overall comparison I don't see why you are so against a good pair of eyes a brain as a judge. As for Dunn, surely you agree he could be much better if he cut the silly crud out of his game and went up a level in hardness to really attack contests. That's without even mentioning doing anything about his decision making which I think at this stage of his career is pretty stuffed. As for a comparison of Dunn with another player I was thinking of another guy who played a lot of mid sized defender last time we were a horrible side in 2007 to 2009 and then made way for a better class of footballer when we got it together in 2010. And that player is Daniel Bell. He was different in a lot of ways but shoddy decision making and a lack of influence on the game was common to both. I hope we climb at least a couple of spots and gain some more wins next year and I predict that if we do then we won't see Dunn as such a regular.