Binmans PA

8 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I hope all Dee’s fans are realistic about Kolt in his first game and aren’t disappointed if he doesn’t have a great game.

On what we have seen he has the talent to make it, but may need time as most young players do.

Then again, he could turn it on.

Similar with Caleb. Demonlanders need to temper expectations rather than hyping up these boys and then ripping them down when they don't dominate or when they have normal developmental patches.

11 minutes ago, rpfc said:

This conflation of last year with this year is misguided - we may have opened up the game about late last year in an attempt to get us out of our connection rut but that was not what we are seeing this season. The Richmond game last year that some have mentioned was a contest and clearance domination in the second half - not a transition success. 76 points from clearances in that game attests to that. 

The final against Collingwood saw them get 37 I50s - so our ‘prevention’ strategy of non-exposure to our defence was in play there. 

This year it is different - we are more efficient with our fewer I50s, and there are less repeat entries.

 

@layzie Brown is able to come at the footy more and with less onerous requests to sit under ‘out kicks’ down the line which is how we have moved the ball for the last 4 years. We are moving the ball quicker and with more space to move - forwards are always going to appreciate that.

We did score 25 points from centre clearances, but we also scored 32 points from the wing. So whilst we only scored 7 points from chains starting in the D50, this could also suggest we simply turned the ball over/intercepted it earlier. Which remains an important score source from us in 2024.

I agree with the Richmond game last year doesn't fit as aptly as the Brisbane and Adelaide games the prior weeks, but there was a distinct loosening of our defensive system to score more points.

We have clearly worked on connection over the summer though and that's your point. So we now enter with much flatter kicks from slower plays inside 50 and we start more scoring chains from our D50.

2 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

I didn’t say we’ve been playing a forward half game. But that we’re trying to. 

And I'm saying we've deliberately been sitting our defence deeper, ie not trying to play a forward half territory game.

And of course there is nuance to this. Within game we may try to take territory and push home the contested advantage.

5 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

I think we have tried to play a forward half game this year. We’re winning due to the backline being so strong and our efficiency but I don’t think it’s by intention. 

Fair enough. I don't think you can really play a forward half game when you're sitting your defence as deep as we have this year, so agree to disagree.

I'd be just tempering our expectations a bit. If he can make a hit or two, and lay 3 or 4 tackles, I think that'd be a great debut.

6 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

I contend we made that change last year. In 2022 we used a near identical plan to 2021.

But in 2023 we were much bolder and used both sides of the ground, especially early on, when we had fit key forwards. This was partly due to having two genuine wingman with Hunter coming across.

 

We still tried to play forward half in most games last year except Rounds 19-21, where we played from the back more.

3 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Against Adelaide it was Langdon 15.5kms, ANB 15.2 and Ned McHenry 15.0

Against Port it was Langdon 15.4, D Houston 14.5 and ANB 14.4

v Hawks Langdon 15.0, TMcDonald 14.7 F MacGuiness 14.6 ANB not in the top 5

v Dogs Langdon 16.2 Bont 14.4 Fritsch (!!) 14.4, TMac and Rivers next

v Swans Langdon 15.8, ANB 15.5 Gulden 15.1

What a machine Langdon is!

So why is ANB not on the above list then? Weird. 

4 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Agreed. With Jason Taylor steadily churning out quality players everywhere except over 193cm, we really need to make that investment.

Fullarton hasn't had a chance yet and I instinctively like him as a prospect, but we can't keep churning through other club's surplus.

Taylor, Weitering and Harris Andrews are all free agents at end of 2025, for what it is worth. ;)

Weitering the Melbourne supporter you mean? 😜

I thought he'd recently extended, but happy to hear he could be on the market post 2025. Would be the perfect May replacement and since he gives his bank details away to anyone, he might need the extra cash.

Caleb has been really good and I really like him as a player, but the hype on here (and elsewhere) is astronomical IMO.

46 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Centre clearance after a goal is another matter. It offers a very high chance of scoring if it's a clean win

Have you seen stats around this or is it the eye test thing?

52 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

I still think Goodwin wants to play a forward half game and that the game plan is very similar to 2023.

We have just been beaten in the midfield more often this year and we have kicked very accurately. This means that instead of getting repeat entries, which are usually inferior entries into a more crowded forward line, so the ball has been going back to the centre more often. Plus our forward pressure has also been average due to Brown and Petty both being in the forward line (and Kossie missing against Sydney).

The Swans midfield beat us in the contest in greasy conditions which did not suit Gawn (and favoured Grundy) and also worked against our unskilled bulls.

Against the Dogs, the midfield was even and the Dogs transitioned the ball better than we would have liked from the back half but were poor going inside 50.

We killed Hawthorn in the centre and the game was effectively over by quarter time.

Port's midfield beat us but our defence held strong.

The Crows midfield beat us and our defence held strong/they fluffed their chances.

A lot of losing in the midfield battles comes down to being fixtured against three elite midfields (Sydney, Dogs and Port) but it also is due to Oliver being injured in the last two weeks. I think we will see a reversion to the 2023 model as the sample size increases, especially if Oliver recovers and we can get on top of some of the poorer/more average midfields.

 

 

Disagree.

Let's see who's right as the season goes on mate.

2 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Collingwood's slingshot style also meant a defence has less time to set up. They threw numbers at the contest and used handball plus short sharp kicks to disrupt defences. They're not being allowed to do that so much this year. 

Our system wouldn't allow that now anyway. As long as we cut off the first handball, we set our defence so deep now, there's far less space in behind.

I'm happy with us losing clearance/stoppage, ground ball, inside 50 differential, but winning on the scoreboard.

Maybe I've rose-coloured glasses on or I'm being conspiratorial, but I reckon Goody would be perfectly happy keeping things as they are and he's playing a few games in his presser today. (ie he doesn't want to completely let on to opposition analysts how we're looking to win this year)

If we win too much clearance and have the ball locked in our front half too often, it means we've got to be perfect to find space or a target inside 50. To me, that's unsustainable as a strategy nowadays. Teams are highly inefficient, us especially, when we play forward half.

Perhaps we'd prefer to be defending most plays through the centre corridor and the wings, and turning the ball over earlier (higher up the ground/closer to our own goal) rather than playing from our D50, but ultimately most top 8 teams won't give up too many points from their own defensive half consistently. 

I do concur with Goody though that we'd probably want a greater inside 50 differential than against say Port (-21). You're asking way too much of your defensive system and defenders to defend that sort of differential.

Just now, ElDiablo14 said:

Have your kids watch Caden McDonald YT content. Caden is mad about the Dees and he's got a lot of pull with the younger generations.

Never heard of him. Interesting. Ta. 

14 hours ago, rpfc said:

But we have always had an extra behind the ball and allow teams to have an extra at the stoppage. To me, that always amazed me that we didn’t lean into the slingshot even more with that extra player with our Rolls Royce defence.

We still invariably have our extra behind the ball to release Lever by now we are unlocking what that means offensively.

Very true.

Perhaps it was more of a personnel limitation in the past? 

It may also have been Collingwood winning that sped up our shift to playing the deeper style.

I remember in that QF last year when we were dominating territory and there was 100m open for Collingwood to work back into. Even though we were dominating territory, it felt like they were super dangerous defending from their own defensive half.

We may have taken heavily from them or it may be a natural evolution to maximise our defensive system and lower the likelihood of teams slingshotting against us (ie combating the game style that was, as @binman says, developed to beat our 2021 defensive set up).

I'm looking forward to watching closely how our mids set up on Thursday night. It's not even so much the set up, but how we attack the ball.

In the two games I've seen live this year, it's been relatively obvious that we only send one mid to win possession, the others spread or take up defensive positions. This probably speaks to why we're losing clearance on net.

Be fascinating to see how we approach this as the season progresses.

8 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Um Heywood Floyd😶 the celebrated Dr from 2001?? I SAY GO GET HIM🥰

Just be careful, PF. You said 'um'. We don't tolerate that around here.

Just now, Jaded No More said:

RIP kid. I hope you enjoy the orphanage. 

My wife was quite surprised with my reaction, which was something like that's a terrible song, we don't sing that in this house. 🤣

I'm like you do realise you're married to a nuffy that lives the MFC, so much so that I went to the footy the day after our wedding, and planned the date around the footy.

Ya silly sauage wifey.

1 hour ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

There is always a "spare room" at The Manor WCW.

( Imagine a lustful font for this post )

 

Uber creepy, Bitters.

1 hour ago, binman said:

Fair comment.

I'm the time bandit. I appreciate the feedback and will take on board (genuinely, ie not being facetious).

Nah, I like the length. 

Thanks very much.

Wasn't sure where to put this, but my son came home from pre school today singing the [censored] Carlton song. He said one of his friends was singing it. It also came up on the kids algorithm on Spotify when my wife was driving him home. 

I suppose it's possible to push the theme song out on Spotify. It's actually a very clever way of potentially getting new supporters. 

We should do this.

Push Grand Old Flag on socials and Spotify.

The only thing I learnt here is that little nuffy Tom Morris has managed to land another job.

1 hour ago, Binmans PA said:

Nah, IMO they're smarmy. 

But I am dealing with the MCC ones...

5 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

I think Turner plays a bit like Tom Stewart from the Cats. He has good pace, marks well at the highest point and kicks well. I would like to see him play on smaller players in the VFL, because he is going to need to play alongside May and Lever in the AFL team.

Turner needs a run of AFL games to get up to the speed of the game, but I think it would be a good investment.

I like Turner, but I think his issue at this stage is he struggles on the gorillas, so I'd be having him play on the big boys at VFL level. Take the biggest opposition forward.

It's why I tend to agree with @Ollie fan and @Jaded No More that he's more likely to replace Lever or Howes. 

This is not to say he won't be a good KPB when he puts on more muscle and gains greater strength.

1 minute ago, daisycutter said:

brisbane bears from 1987

brisbane lions from 1996

Exactly, but I see binners corrects it above.

5 hours ago, binman said:

But when they became the Brisbane lions, which they should have done from the get go, after a couple of seasons he felt compelled to support them - . A knowledgeable and clued in footy supporter, who still has a soft spot for the dees.

I'm confused by this, binners. They became the Brisbane Lions at the end of 1996. Fitzroy folded at the end of 1996. So they did become Brisbane Lions from the get go.

3 hours ago, rpfc said:

We have been boring the last two years. Fans of other teams don’t see things until the ‘narratives’ have got through or their team has played the teams in question. 

So we will come up against a bunch of fan groups that think we are just a dump it down the line, win territory team, that prefers repeat entries until we slingshot their team into Oblivion through the excellent law firm of McVee, Howes, and Rivers.

They are The Transition.

Agreed to a large extent, but I think we started this quicker transition (albeit not anywhere near as well) in the second half of 2023. When you think of our game against Brisbane in Round 18 last year, that was an out and out shoot out. Our game the following week against Adelaide was also a shoot out. And Round 20 against Richmond we showed a similar flair from front to back.

But you're largely right, the sample size for opposition fans is smaller and they're more likely to have our 2023 finals in their heads, which were forward half territory games.