MadAsHell

James Stewart eligable Collingwood FS. With Collingwood's 2nd round pick likely to be in the late 30's to early 40's I expect a Richmond or St. Kilda to nominate him with their 2nd round pick and Collingwood to match that with theirs. Meaning both our 2nd round picks will be tied up. That's why I reckon Martin and our 3rd round pick for their 1st round pick might work. With that pick I'd be hoping we can land one of Matthew Haynes, Jackson MacRae or Laine Wilkins. Outside running midfielders/forwards with really good pace, and in Wilkins case really good kick also.

I'm not saying that Vney wont be a great player. I'm saying he's not rated in the top 3 in this draft. The question was put to me that if GWS or GC nominated Viney at Pick 1 or 2, (meaning that they'd take him at that pick if FS wasn't an option for us) is that draft tampering considering no one has rated him in the top 3 and only a handful of experts have him in the top 5. My response was that in my opinion that yes it is draft tampering and that I'd be furious if I were a GWS member and we missed out on Whitfield and got Viney. You use the argument that not many No 1 draft picks turn out to be the no 1 player from that draft and the order changes when you look at it a few years later. But that works both ways. What if GWS take Viney at 1 who turns out to be a Jake King and GC get Whitfield at 2 who turns out to be a Chris Judd. That's why you should always take the best player available and I'd be flthy if I were a GWS member and we didn't get Whitfield because our coach was more concerned with playing Russian Roulette with a cellar dweller club then looking at the big picture.

If we're looking for a new midfield coach and Ling's out of the question and Ratten is headed to Port as it sounds like could be the case, I'd be pretty keen to get Woey back! He did good things with South Fremantle I think it was and has overlooked and young and improving Brisbane midfield. Lets get Woey back to the club. If nothing else he'll teach them all about professional preperation for the game. Was ahead of his time was Woewodin. Forget Ling, lets start operation 'Get Woewodin'! He'd be cheaper also!

If I was a GWS member and we ended up with Viney at Pick 1 because we tried to force another team to use their pick to take him and they called our bluff I would be furious! The draft is about taking the best kid available. So unless Viney is the best player available at a certain pick, I wouldn't be bidding. And how would they explain taking Viney at Pick 1 to their Members when no one in the land has rated him in the top 3 prospects and everyone has said Whitfield is the clear no 1. It's about improving your own list. Not trying to weaken someone elses.

That is amazing MFN! You really do have to wonder what's been going on at this club for so long and it's no wonder there was such a massive change in the leadership group. Needless to say I assume all the members of our leadership group were in the 50% that met their targets. I really am looking forward to a team where each and every member buys into what the coach wants in 2013 and really applies themselves. And as I've said although I'm not expecting a massive difference in teh win loss ratio next season I am looking forward to the lift in intensity and competitivness.

I agree with you 100% as Viney isn't rated in the top 3 picks in the draft, but the AFL aren't going to crack down on their two new babies.

Rivers has been my favourite player since early 2004 so I would be disapointed to see him go. However I can't blame him for exploring his options. He's given 10 years and 150 games of service to the club and his body has taken a battering. If he reckons he's only got a couple of years left and wants to taste some success before retirement I wont hold that against him. I have no doubt the club would like him to stay, but if he were to walk we're lucky that we're in a positon where KPD is probably the only area that we have some depth with Frawley, Garland, McDonald, Sellar, Davis, Shehan & the born again Dunn so we would be able to replace him, although he'd still no doubt be missed. If he were to go to Geelong I'd enjoy seeing how good he could be in a succesful club. Wouldn't be suprised if he pushed for AA in his first year. Fingers crossed he stays.

Martin & our 3rd round pick for their 1st round pick. Both ours and their 2nd round picks will be tied up if father son (Viney & Stewart) so that would be a reasonable deal I reckon given I think Martin's worth a 2nd round pick. There's not that much on their list that I'm interested in that they'd be willing to let go.

I don't disagree with you in regards to the type of player Viney is and the fact we need those types of players. I reckon end of the day the question that the club will ask itself is who would we prefer, Viney or Grundy? And can we get a similar player to Viney later on in the draft? eg. Vlastuin at Pick 13. I'm not saying we will pass, I'm just saying I wouldn't be suprised if we did.

I think they'll give Spencer a two year deal, mainly as insurance for Max Gawn to see how he goes coming back from his knee. If Gawn gets through 2013 pretty well then I'd expect Spencer to be traded at the end of that season for whatever we can get. Pretty low draft pick most likely. As for Jetta, I still think he can make the grade.

We could, but it may put a lot of clubs off dealing with us in the future if we were to do this. I'm still 50/50 on it. I wont be suprised either way. If we were to pass I reckon it would say a lot of the new regime.

Can I ask why you would rather trade and there for given up something for Shannon Byrnes when we could just sign him as a free agent which would cost us nothing? That is pretty funny! Hopefully you'd like to think he may have grown up a bit and the fact he isn't getting a game the penny may have dropped. But if he is that kind of a guy, then I certainly can't see him fitting in with Neeld and what he's trying to create down at Melbourne.

No for two reasons. One being that I don't think we'll have to given I reckon that stuff will be sorted out behind closed doors between Melbourne, GC & GWS. And two and most importantly because it will send a huge message to the rest of the competition that MFC are not going to be dictated to by anyone. Everyone knows that Whitfield & Grundy are the two best players in the draft, so if GWS or GC wanted to play Russian Roulette and nominate Viney we should look them in the eye and simply say PASS. They are then left with a very good player, but not one who's rated in the top 3 in the draft when they have Picks 1 & 2. Those clubs would then have to answer for why a Whitfield, Gundy or a Toumpas has been let go purely to try and one up a battling club near the bottom of the ladder. As I've mentioned in another thread, I reckon a deal will be struck between the 3 clubs that will see a win, win, win. GWS to end up with picks 1,2 & 3 and take Whitfield, Grundy & Toumpas GC trade Pick 2 to GWS for MD Pick 1 (Jack Martin who will be an absolute jet!) Melbourne trade Pick 3 to GWS for MD Pick 2 (Jesse Hogan) allowing us to take Viney in the 2nd round and holding onto Pick 4.

That comment makes me wonder if you've ever seen Byrnes play for two reasons. One because he's got very good foot skills as long as he's kicking off his left. And two because he's a small crumbing forward and the players at Geelong who you're saying are getting games ahead of him aren't competing with Byrnes for a small forward role. The players keeping Byrnes out are Chapman, Stokes, Christensen and Motlop. All pretty handy players.

Great post RB. The only thing that I disagree with are the comments by some posters that this season was almost a pre-season for 2013. Personally I reckon it was more of a pre-season for 2014. I reckon next year we'll be looking at 4-6 wins at best considering the amount of departures it sounds like we might be having. My main hope for next season is that we have players giving 100% all the time and that we can put in competitive efforts in every match.

Don't think there have been to many soft 2 time premiership winning players?

I know he was a spud, but didn't Josh Fraser play all 22 games in his first year?

I like it Grun Dee, I'll give it a shot. FREE AGENTS Danyle Pearce: Outside small running utility. Can play forward, midfield or off half back. 26 years of age, 154 AFL games experience, fifth in Port Adelaide's B & F in 2011 and 2006 NAB Rising Star winner. Jordan Russell: Rebounding half back flanker capable of playing a shut down role with good disposal. 25 years of age, 116 AFL games experience, two top 5 finishes in Carlton B & F's and currently in Carlton's leadership group. Shannon Byrnes: Small crumbing forward/midfielder. 28 years of age, 108 AFL games experience & 100 goals. Two time premiership player who comes from a winning culture. I initially prefered Jarred Moore from Sydney Swans for this role as he's two years younger and in Sydney's leadership group, however if you believe the media Shannon Byrnes is a done deal which is still a good get. Byrnes is quicker I'll give him that although has no right boot! TRADES In pre-arranged deal with GWS to allow us to take Viney in 2nd round,, Pick 3 to GWS for MD Pick 2 being Jesse Hogan (I suspect GC will trade Pick 2 to GWS for MD Pick 1 being Jack Martin). Jordan Gysberts to Essendon for Scott Gumbleton: 24 years of age, 28 AFL games experience and 33 goals. At 197cm & 97kg he'd walk into our starting CHF position. When fit he's shown what he can do yet will struggle to gget a game at Essendon with their tall forwards. I'd back Misson to get him right. Essendon get a highly rated NQR midfielder with massive upside and former high draft pick and we get a highly rated NQR key forward with massive upside and former high draft pick. Sounds like a fair deal to me! 3 WAY DEAL Ricky Petterd to Carlton David Ellard to West Coast Koby Stevens to Melbourne: 21 years of age, 11 AFL games experience, former early 2nd round draft selection formerly from Gippsland Power. Good inside midfielder and a good build at 187cm & 83kg. Has had a very good season with East Fremantle in the WAFL yet can't break into West Coast's strong midfield. Very good at the contested ball which is what Neeld puts a focus on. Stefan Martin & our 3rd round Pick approx 45 to Collingwood in exchange for their 1st round pick which if they end up runners up as I suspect will be Pick 21. DRAFT MD Pick 2: Jesse Hogan, don't have a lot of info on Jesse apart from the fact that he's a massive unit who could become a dominate FF/CHF. Exactly the type of player we'll need and is the type of player that I'd be willing to wait another 12 months for. Pick 4: Either one of Jonathan O'Rourke or Oliver Wines and I'm starting to lean towards O'Rourke. Similar heights and O'Rourke weighs in at 75kg compared to Wines' 83kg, yet O'Rourke is equally as fierce at the ball and has that burst of pace that Wines may lack from the contest. Considering we'll have Viney who's a similar player to Wines it's making me lean towards O'Rourke with this pick. He also is a very composed player and a good kick, Pick 13: Either one of Ben Kennedy or Dayle Garlett as I'm sure at least one will be available, preference is Kennedy. 174cm & 76 kg lightning quick small forward/midfielder. Seems to have a touch of arrogance about him which I like and is able to play midfield also. Will be the perfect replacement for Shannon Byrnes if we get Byrnes as a free agent. The pieces start to fall together. Pick 21 (from Collingwood): One of either Matthew Haynes, Jackson MacRae or Laine Wilkins: With this pick (if we were to get it) I'd be looking for a really quick outside midfielder capable of kicking goals ala Daniel Wells type and these three all meet the citeria. My preference would probably be for Wilkins from WA who comes in at 189cm and 78kg. Is expected to test off the charts at draft camp and is one of the quickest players there with good skills. Think a quicker and better skilled Cale Morton. Pick 26: Jack Viney (F/S): Don't think anything has to be said really. I'm hoping he'll become our Sam Mitchell. Pick 64 (approx): Paul Marschall, 20 year old from Central Districts in the SANFL who comes in at 187cm and 80kg. Running half back with good skills and rarely misses a kick, good pace to. I was also thinking of Dean Towers from North Ballarat with this pick but there's a good chance that he may not last this long. Pick 82 (approx): Daniel Nicholson: Rookie upgrade. Pre Season Draft: Khan Haretuku, 23 years of age, 198cm & 98kg. Kicked 30 goals this year playing for Frankston in the VFL and represented Victoria in the State league match this year. Can play either end of the ground and is exactly the type of player Melbourne need to get some depth in our KPF. 1st Rookie Draft Pick: Ben Ross, turns 24 years of age in approx one week. 179cm midfielder but can play in a number of positions. Played a grand total of 14 games for North Melbourne and was delisted at the end of 2010. Won the JJ Liston Trophy for VFL's top player this year and would help add some experience and dash to the team. 2nd Rookie Draft Pick: Travis Tuck, 25 years of age, 187cm & 86kg midfielder who played 20 games for Hawthorn and has spent the last 2 seasons playing with Werribee in the VFL after being fired from Hawthorn over the drug scandle. Seems to have turned things around and had two solid seasons. Like his brother, is a very good inside midfielder but also has a habbit of finding himself in space. Seemed to come close to being picked up by us last year and with what's sounding like could be a large exodus of Melbourne players this year could be a very useful pick up ala James Magner/Tom Couch. So this would see: Departures: Clint Bartram (ret through inj?), Aaron Davey (ret through inj?), Brad Green (ret), Matthew Bate (FA?), Brent Moloney (FA), Jarred Rivers (FA?), Jordan Gysberts (trade), Stefan Martin (trade), Ricky Petterd (trade), Jamie Bennell (delist), Lucas Cook (delist), Liam Jurrah (delist), Kelvin Lawrence (delist). Arrivals: Shannon Byrnes (FA), Danyle Pearce (FA), Jordan Russell (FA), Scott Gumbleton (trade), Koby Stevens (trade), Jonathan O'Rourke (draft), Ben Kennedy (draft), Laine Wilkins (draft), Jack Viney (draft), Paul Marschall (draft), Khan Haretuku (p/draft), Ben Ross (r/draft), Travis Tuck (r/draft) & of course Jesse Hogan to arrive 12 months later. Edit: Spelling

Couldn't agree more Wiseblood. Exactly the type of player we need. Only reason he can't get a game with the Cats at the moment is because with Chapman, Stokes, Varcoe, Motlop and Christensen to compete with, he's got some stiff competition! If we can squeeze 30-50 games out of Byrnes before he passes the bat onto someone like Kennedy or Garlett if we were to draft one of them then it works out perfectly. Effectively the same scenario some people want, to be signing Q-Lynch as a free agent for 2 years and Hogan in the MD to take over after Lynch departs. Being mentioned by Jay Clarke however I'll wait till Melbourne's formal media conference before I take it as fact.

Has anyone heard anything in regards of which clubs have spoken to Stevens and if he's likely to have a preference ie who he supported as a kid or anything like that?

Spencil has come along really well this year. Although I was disapointed with his game against Adelaide n round 22, although he was up against one of the best ruckmen at the moment. Only concern with Spencil and Gawn while I'm at it is that I don't think that they can both play in the same team as Jamar due to mobility. Long term I'm not sure that they can both stay on the list for a lot longer seeing as Russian has a 3 year deal.

He's certainly capable of that but I love him being a stay at home forward. Dawes form dip came once he started trying to play that role. Wouldn't want it to happen to Clark also. I'd only want him doing that role if none of Martin, Fitzpatrick or Sellar were available. But as you said if we were able to land another quality tall forward then it perhaps wouldn't be so bad.

Fitzpatrick will be threatening for that role next season but I know what you mean. The price would have to be right for me to be wanting to trade Stef.

It's also a highly offensive way of describing someone who suffers from cerebral palsy which is what my brother has, or a much better way of describing his condition is that he has a muscle disability. I'll accept that you may be ignorant on that matter so that's ok. Anyway to close that whole conversation I never said it would happen or is likely to happen or will even be discussed by the club and I'd expect wont be. Be if it were to happen that we be the only possible way that I could see it unfolding. That's why before even mentioning Gaff I refered to much more realistic options of Pearce and Jacobs as players who could play that type of role. I'd be delighted if we managed to land one of those two who no doubt are much more realistic, obtainable and would cost an awful lot less.

Lovely, I really enjoyed that as did my disabled brother! A lot of keyboard heroes around here. Again don't recall saying we should offer them someone like Matthew Bate for Andrew Gaff. Some people really should read and think about what they're about to type and whom they may offend before doing so!