Nasher

I don't understand why it's a huge gamble. Surely MFC supporters would recognise it's the draft that is a gamble, not gun 21 year olds. We traded off lottery tickets for a known quantity. If someone said to you, "I'll give you a million dollars, or two tickets in to a draw to win 30 million", which one would you take?

Almost needs two threads. The "f yeah, we got him" and the "waaaaaaah, we paid overs". I'm in the former camp and don't really want my mood sullied by the latter.

Well I for one won't mourn the loss of draft picks when it's a known gun we're getting. Stoked!

Draft picks or bust. Mahoney and team have demonstrated ability to magic second round draft picks in to something more useful. Swapping him for another talented by flawed player defeats the purpose.

How about they just play football?

Same. And I've never understood why supporters would GAF how much the players get paid.

So what you're saying is: - The club isn't happy with the standards Jack has set - The club wants good compensation in a trade and won't trade him unless they get it - Staying is a possibility and Jack knows the score if he does It almost sounds exactly what Josh "liar liar pants on fire" Mahoney said to the media this week. Who would have thought?

Agree. Byrnes was a 100 game AFL player. Was probably past it by the time he got here, but it's very harsh to use his name in the same context as Gillies. Byrnes and co were about the best players we were able to attract at the time. That's life when you are as hopeless a club as we were then.

If I recall correctly the dispute was over length of contract rather than pay - Saints offered him 3, we wouldn't budge on 2 so he walked. I remember thinking that he'd be well shot by the third year so giving him three would be reckless, but in hindsight I'd give him the three, even with that risk. Although he wasn't the player he had been in 2000, we'd clearly have been a better team in 03 and 04 with him in it. It's a bit like the Jordan Lewis deal. He might fade away to nothing in year three, but so what when the alternative is not having him? Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I simply took it to be nonsense. *shrug* For a start, it's not Goodwin's call alone anyway. Goodwin doesn't give off the impression of an overbearing dictator to me. Does he to you? So much of the conversation on this forum has gone like this: MFC: Jack Watts might be traded for <simple, clear reasons> Demonland faithful: Nah, it's not that, it's because <convoluted conspiracy theories involving character judgements, accusations of personal malice towards the player, and assumptions of complete stupidity on behalf of the management group> Occam's Razor has been mentioned multiple times in this thread, and it's a theory I subscribe to.

LOL. Turn it up, mate. You're taking the pizz, surely.

How does a player who played every game and finish 6th get the axe? Wow. In 2007 we showed Daniel Ward the exit after 18 games that season, but I don't reckon I've ever seen it for a player who played every game.

What were you saying to @Wisebloodabout not choosing to engage the most ridiculous argument on the other side of the fence? Clearly the one you've just quoted is mostly nonsense. (I know - I just did the same thing with Biff)

Summary: Goodwin hates Watts because Watts is tall and good looking, and Goodwin was an ugly, late developing runt. Sorry Biff, but this ranks up there with the biggest load of garbage in this thread, and the competition is fierce. Are people wildly missing the point on purpose or what?

Hey!

I did. Have been happily married for 12 years this year.

You're not sitting on the fence, you just recognise the complexity of the situation. It's possible to appreciate Jack's loyalty through terrible times, feel appreciative of the good footy he has played and feel some attachment to him, AND think that if he is consistently still not reaching the standards required of a player of his standing, then he should probably go. The two positions aren't mutually exclusive. As always though, most people want to see things in black and white.

Not one single person has disputed that Watts is good with the ball.

It found its way on to the list due to a few of your fellow posters flinging it at each other left right and centre. It really was giving admin the irrits and censoring it definitely blunted the behaviour of it, and required less administrative intervention than banning people. I do agree that we should be able to flog dead horses on here though.

Really must get around to clearing out the censored word list one of these days.

He was on Geelong's list for four years, so he can't have been a *total* lemon. Sure looked like it though.

I enjoyed Viney's talk on Oliver's work ethic (side note - how funny was Viney's spoiler. You're not supposed to announce the winner in your runner up speech!). I thought the fact that a renowned hard trainer like Viney said he tried to keep up with Oliver in the gym and couldn't, painted a very exciting picture. You have to wonder how many other players there are out there with such unharnessed talent. Oliver ended up as a high pick but footy world was divided on him. He was a talented but overweight and unfit junior with no concept of how a professional athlete should train. He was told to lose weight, so he stopped eating. Even after a year at the club, he coasted in his first year, until he had a frank discussion with Brendan McCartney at the beginning of last pre-season, and had a lightbulb moment. He got paired up with Billy Stretch - a player who would have been groomed as a professional for his whole life by a parent who gets it. He got absolute reward for his new found application, and he strikes me as the sort of character who won't rest on his laurels now that he's seen the benefit of hard work. How good is it that after all these attempts in the draft in the last decade, we finally bloody found one? Well done Clarry. A much deserved B&F; we're so excited to have you. I'm ready for next year now.

You can't tease me like that, faulty. I still got a notification that you had quoted me!

As I said, without seeing the breakdown and being able to scrutinise that, I think it's baseless criticism. Re: the cardinal sin comment, my point has nothing to do with disagreeing or agreeing with the club. I was as surprised as you - I just thing it's a bridge too far to declare it "wrong". Anyway by my calculations, the difference between 6th and 2nd was an average score of 0.3 points per coach each game - I've never really looked at this before so I have nothing to compare too, but that seems very close. I thought Hibberd's front half of the season would get him up higher in the count. Really wish we could see the vote spread.

You have to wonder how a player like that makes it in to the system - twice! It was an entertaining article though. The old "it's everyone's fault but mine" trick. Drawing a comparison between himself and Brian Lake. Refusing to play in the Dev league is a neat stunt too - should have sacked him there and then.