timD

How has not not taken responsibility for his actions, Jarka. He has not acted like you want, but it doesn't sound as if he is making excuses, in denial etc. A relationship bust up is pretty serious to some people, other responsibilities or not.

Jarka, you want to explain how being out and trying to patch up a relationship - failing (it is implied) and not getting up at the right time is 'immature'? Not the best set of actions, but 'immature'?

MFC Rocks My World And A Premiership's On The Way

Rhino, it is really quibbling with minor details I agree - wheatley or frawley, pj or meeson. I too hope that frawley really makes a defenders spot his own. I was impressed by his pace and sense of 'burst' in the few games I saw him in. Wheatley would be good ina side that had two establihsed defenders - he would cut teams apart with his good speed and kicking. WE don't ahve that, and need to develop them - my rationalisations. I also wonder about PJ - how much time has he actually been given in the ruck as opposed to begin played forward? He may be a bloke that takes time and given his injuries I wonder about hom much actual consistent time in teh ruck he has gotten. At west coast, was he played as a forward?

I'd not have wheatley in the team - he's not a good enough defender and he doesn't physically contest enough for my liking across the midfield. Meeson sounds ike he did not do enough in the ruck in cairns and PJ sounded good - so I have him. FB: Bartram Carroll Frawley HB: Bell Rivers Bruce C: Green Jones Moloney HF: Sylvia Bate Dunn FF: Robertson Neitz Davey Ruck/Rov: White McLean McDonald Interchange: PJ Newton Buckley Petterd

It's because of our culture of accepting losses, H. Truly it is a sign that we are pathetic. Someone should burn something down.

Dappa, I'm amused with the notion that Frawley is a good solid ordinary footballer. Please explain how you judge his current expereince, output and Potential. also reference his height, build and legspeed. HE HAS PLAYED, WHAT, 8 GAMES?!? If he is good, solid and ordinary now, he may be full back of the century by the age of 26.

Jarka, I think that narrows the debate to a meaningless level and prevents any understanding of how to fix the problem. Pressure is pressure - different in amount but not quality. Liek Goodvibes, H, I liked it the first time I read it. It is a real important idea. I wonder if you could also talk about the backline. To what extent will the development of Bell and Frawley fit with the view you've espoused?

Jarka, your theory is that 'we drop our bundle in pressure games'. If your theory is worth anything, it will stand up to the rigor of looking at pressure games that we did win as well as two finals that we didn't. Now, we beat sydney in sydney in 2006 - again injuries playing a heavy part against us, beat we gt up an got up well. We beat geelong on the MCG at night with another injured team playing a first and second-gamer. These were both pressure games that we desparately needed to win in order to stop our season disappearing before it started, played against heavily favoured oppositions. I think that if we were to look at it closely (depending on what we define as 'pressure' games), we'd be at about 50% win/loss. It is the variability that infuriates me; i don't think it is right to say that we 'drop' the bundle at pressure games, but rather that we cannot sustain our level of required performance across a season. So, we'll win some pressure games and lose others.

FAtty, damn it dumbkoff! - discussion is excellent. Don't stop thinking and arguing. FWIW I disagree, but I appreciate the chance to think about it and talk it over. I think Neita does apply defensive pressure - he draws three defenders to and then into a contest. He often occupies two blokes when he hits the ground. He chases. It's just that it is often just him. I think the illusion that presents itself is of lack of pressure.

FAtty, I hope you are kidding about that idea that Neita doesn't apply defensive pressure? Are you kidding? After being triple teamed week after week, where he gets sat on by two blokes in a marking contest while the third runs away, you criticise him for not applying defensive pressure?

My point is that, head-to-head, fred has made heaps from what he started with, Boris is just a slapper, and yet you make a decision about fred and Boris's worth based on the outcome only...I think the metric is wrong.

So, on your logic, if Fred earned 1000.00, and invested it and had, in the end $20,000, and Boris was given $20000 by daddy and made 5 bucks at the races, then Boris 's done better than Fred because he has more in the end?

THanks Craig. Hopefully your legacy will ensure that you are remembered fondly.

I agree with you, jarka

Dan, stance can do that - I'm six two but constantly stoop. Once I stand up and straighten up, friends, workmates and relatives - who've known me for years - comment on my height. It's not like it should be a surprise!

Freak, bob has clearly stated that he has an opinion, and that must mean that he's 'grown some', whch makes your statement redundant. Thanks. As for being flagless, is that a causal relationship?

Cop that!

:lol:

Great stuff H. Afterr 2002 I felt sick. i have not been able to watch a replay ever. I was gutted, wrung out. WE've existed on the promises of talent ever since - the whole list and travis. no more.

Prem, think on this: we are years from a flag and TRavis is a lazy boy. WE do not have a champion and may not get one. Therefore our route to flagland is to be like Syndey: a tough and uncompromising group. Travis does not fit with this and has never shown that he can consistently play the team line. It may not reflect true value to us, but he needs to go.

Nasher, Hards, that's what got me awonderin'. Congratulations Redleg. Weddings, they're crazy things: vowing to love someone forever. Mad, stupid, nigh-on impossible. I love them. A good wedding is a great party. I hope it all goes well.

Captain : Neitz Vice captain: Green Coach: Connolley Delisted players: Ward, brown, pickett, neville, biz, warnock, ferg Retired players: nil First draft pick: Selwood Football manager: Robert Shaw 07 Bluey: McClean Ladder position: 7th. WE will not trade anyone. Soft rubbish will get served up. We'll limp into the finals and go out first round. Chris will say what a great achievement it was. Our pathetic shame will roll on.

One game - one - for the year that matches his potential and the masses are begging Byron to stay. I'm happy with the suitcase being packed and personal items posted to wherever the hell he wants. Fat after preseason, half-arsed through the year and he turns up now...WOW what a professional. What a great example. Let's keep him. How pathetic are we that a one-off effort impresses so much. Thanks for the memory.

THe thing that screams to me is his handling and pace combo. Weetra or Hayes maybe?