Dappa Dan

Been a while. Don't worry, wont make a habit of it. lol

Good post. He's good ordinary, isn't he. You need those guys in a list. Bugg's another classic case as you say. But unfortunately he's played every game this year and done serious minutes in important roles. The other old footy axiom... is he a premiership midfielder? Or to put it another way, if we're going for a premiership, and he's depth (10-15 games a year) that means we're pretty good. But if he's playing 90% game time for 22 home and away games... Do we need to recruit/draft someone better to take his spot to threaten for a flag? No doubt today his disposal was one of a number of things that cost us the game. Going forward though... he is still young. Can he develop a couple more sides to his game? Develop a tagging ability like Harmes? Negating forward role? There's still time of course, he's only 22 and only just cracked the magic 50 games a few games ago. But personally if he's as good now as he's ever going to be, we're going to need to look elsewhere.

Fair enough I guess. Although it's worth pointing out.... Are you aware that you don't have to read it, and we do? I reckon that's enough now, don't you? You've said nothing new for the last half a dozen posts, and I'm sure you're as sick of this as I am. I look forward to getting back to you on this in the future, and proving once and for all how out of your mind you are in your suggestion.

I don't THINK he's kicked them?! I KNOW he has? Of course he hasn't done well when we're controlled through the middle. Who has?! Even BUDDY doesn't do well when his midfield gets controlled. That's every forward IN HISTORY. You're taking pot shots at him now when his midfield isn't on top? Give me strength... "When we have an open forward 50, and 2 or 3 talls in there to divide the defenders, he can do Ok." Of course, again... every forward line going round that applies to. But you're picking and choosing your history again. His previous three seasons he would be double and triple teamed, bring the ball to ground, or just mark it and kick it himself. TMac giving him company in the F line is a recent development. He used to have the job on his own, with terrible midfields feeding him the ball, and he STILL kicked 40. Once again, your facts are nonsense, and your reading of his footy is miles off. It's the opposite of what's going on, actually. "You can speak slowly, you can speak all night to the wall for all I care, your wrong." Literally NOTHING you've said has been a rebuttal of anything I've said. Pretty much everything I've said has proven, in multiple ways, that you're wrong. I don't often get into these inane discussions with posters because they're exactly that... inane... but this is amazing. I haven't come across anything as far separated from reality on here in a while. "Jesse is not suited to playing as THE Deep forward. unless they leave him one out." Jesse played his first seasons as the only deep forward, and in case you missed it, the whole league has been double teaming him his whole career when given that role. WRONG. AGAIN. Incredible.

You'll probably get called a sook by a few on here, but I reckon you're right to bent usefully. I think the biggest key in there is your period you've been a fan. 18 years. I've been a demon since I was a kid and watched Stynes/Lyon/Schwartz. I was a bit out of the loop in 2000 when we got to a GF, but the following 6 seasons we were, on and off, relevant. It was easy to follow Nietz and Bruce and Yze as, at the time, they had the potential to do something. Then of course since then, the hell we've been put through. It's possible that in the early years you weren't as immersed as some, and have only really been immersed after we were really in it. I have to say though, I remember reflecting in about 2014 or 2015 that as bad and bleak as it seemed, even though we knew 10 goal losses would be the norm, I still didn't want to be anywhere else but watching the demons. And I have to say, during the worst parts we had the option of just opting out. Switch the TV off, don't look at the sports pages, go do something else. Now it's a lot worse. We're expected to do something, so when we don't, it stings more. When you expect nothing, it's all part of the plan when you get nothing. But when you low ball it, and just beg to make finals, and you end up missing out... it's worse than almost any other disappointment. We were supposed to improve this year. We're supposed to be a premiership threat, and it's most certainly not the case. So I can get that it would hurt in a way that sticks a bit worse than your usual failed season. I'd direct you to the list build though. We've always been about our core group. And its their profiles where I think you'll see a good reason to stay firm with MFC. Every year you ask, who are the guys that in the next 3 seasons are considered "core." Or in other words, the names you cling to and don't consider trading. Hang on to for 200-300 games each. If you take that philosophy with Sydney, it's guys like Parker (25), Kennedy (30), Buddy (31), Rampe (28) Lloyd (24). Along with some lesser lights like Hanneberry and Jack who aren't killing it like they usually would. The only core guys under 25, you could argue, are Aliir, Heeney and Mills who are all under 25. There's a reason they always compete well. They recruit a bunch of younger guys who always learn from great older guys while their mid-twenties brigade dominate. Once you have that in your list, it's simpler to educate players who are coming through. The demons situation is way more difficult. Our core, the names that have led to our rise up the ladder, are almost all under 25. Think of Oliver at the top of the tree. Hogan, Tracca, ANB, Hunt (last year), Lever, Harmes (recently), OMac, Salem, Viney, Brayshaw, ... These guys are the main reason we're having any success at all, and are playing full games in roles of massive responsibility. The only guys really holding a spot and causing opposition headaches that are over 25 are guys like Lewis, Jetta, Hibbo, TMac, Gawn, Jones, Melksham and Garlett. That's a small smattering of leaders. What I'm confident you'll see in coming years is that first group all stay and move into the mid-late twenties group. When they do, we'll improve a lot. The youngsters that take their place will come from the upcoming drafts, and you'll see the list resemble the successful teams' lists a lot more. To put it simply, we're not in our peak yet with this current build. On one hand, that's great because we get to see a lot more improvement. On the other... it means that the stakes get even higher in the coming years. And should we lose a GF, this Swans game will feel like a fond childhood memory in comparison.

I don't usually give a damn what players say in the media. It's usually all to do with media training to avoid saying something that embarrasses them or the club. But this is pretty bad. I just got done saying how good he was, and how he's becoming a 4 quarter player we need with attributes a coach can use. Then he says all that. Clearly thrilled he's coming of age and not really that stressed about the result. Bloody daft.

Jesus your formatting needs work. The question on midfielders was rhetorical. You're floating ideas of trading our best footballers, I'm making them sound absurd. Have done it half a dozen times now. Not that you're paying attention. So to sum up. Hogan's going nowhere. You're proposing trading him because he's not a deep forward (which he is), or because he's not accurate (which he is) because you feel you can "get value" in unproven draft picks (which you can't guarantee) and because you can play an AFL quality deep forward in Weed (he isn't). Do me a favour. Don't quote me again. Especially not to repeat your babble a sixth time.

I'll say it again and slower this time. He's kicked almost as many goals as those other deep forwards while playing less game time there. TMac has been our deep forward more often than him. The point isn't even that (which is correct, despite your blindness), it's that the forward line IS FUNCTIONING. We're the best attack in the game?!! He's kicked 9 bags of 3 or more this year. Where was he kicking them? From outside fifty? From the wing? Open your eyes. He absolutely is a deep forward and absolutely is effective in the role, even with TMac in the side. Now. You can say he isn't all you like... it's clear you're delusional and blind. The FACTS ARE.... He IS a deep forward. Is playing successfully when put in that role and will continue there. Can't kick accurately? This just goes on and on doesn't it. His 4 seasons to date. 41.19, 41.33, 20.6 and 47.23.... DO the math. He's shooting at better than 66% in three of those seasons. Yet again, you're flat out wrong, and guilty of idiotic groupthink handed to you by god-knows-who in the media. Jesse doesn't HAVE to play high. He has to kick goals. And he's doing that. When he plays deep. The "best" thing is to trade him? No. It isn't. Pure and simple. The best thing is to keep the AA KP forward at the age of 23. Hahaha. Tyson a second rounder?!!! Are you taking the pi55 now?

I've been hanging onto that "we play well away" thing too. It is true that we don't play well at the G. Every time I see us play there, unless it's against appalling oppo like GC or Blues, we just seem lost. It'll be something they deal with in off season, you can be sure. For now though, WC win is our best window. I have a feeling we'll end up looking at Friday night's game in round 23 like we did the Pies game the same round last year.

Jesse is absolutely a deep forward. Has been playing the role (along with others) all year and kicking bags. He's 6th in the Coleman after playing part of the year wandering up the ground and even at centre clearances. Something you don't see Hawkins, Riewoldt or Brown do. You've got to open your eyes. Again with the Weed. Been in the system 3 years and still can't get a game. 8 goals in 15 games. Jesse kicked 40+ in his first season. And you want to go with TMac and Weed... You want to take the best attack in the game and go into it with just TMac and a kid who is yet to prove he can do anything. I guess you could be right. After all we don't know the end result of Weed's career yet. I'm confident Hogan will end up the better player by a mile. I hope we stick with good players instead of trading them out because we're so disgusted with our current crop of mids. If you're that upset about how bad guys like Oliver, Tracca, Viney and Brayshaw are going, you could trade one of them? Or maybe hang in for another year or two and see how they go when they crack 100 games. See you in 8 years.

You're proposing trading him... That's what I'm challenging. My God. You're wanting to get Whitfield in the team over Hogan? This just gets better and better. And what's this? You're claiming the age profile of our mature players is cause to move Jesse on? Lists get turned over every season. You get to move on a couple of older players EVERY SEASON if you're doing it right. What's that got to do with trading one of the best KP forwards under 25 in the league? I said it before and I'll say it again. You don't trade out good players to play your VFL guys, or to trade in other clubs' offcasts. You're out of your mind. I've put the Weed/Whitfield> Hogan stuff aside for later. This is just going to get funnier every year.

Well. Not really. A handful of nutty posters aren't worth tangling with. Almost noone on demonland is looking to learn things, everyone just wants to post their own drivel and disappear. Like suggesting trading Hogan and playing Weed. lol

That's what I was saying.

Garbage. No sign anywhere that Jesse is on the move. It's not time. You and about 5 other crackpots are calling for his trade. TMac hasn't made anyone expendable. We're the top attack in the league. We're not trading our best forward. We don't need to trade Jesse to afford other players. You're making more stuff up. Tyson isn't worth even a second rounder. You've lost your mind. Of course the time is now. Hence why we keep quality AA forwards at MFC instead of trading them to other clubs and playing NQRs. See you in 8 years.

Ok so you're disregarding posters, but still tagging them. Jesse spent his whole career jumping at the ball beautifully, then with his bad ankle now he can't. He's as agile as any KP forward going round right now. Has been compared with Nick Riewoldt this year by many impartial observers. But don't let that affect your decision. OK. "Weed will be better for us deep." Good, we'll just bookmark that for the next 8 years. This Weed/Hogan comparison will come back to bite you, but as we're talking about crystal balling, we can cover this when it's all come and gone. I'll go with you that we need midfield pace and skill. But trading Hogan out is most certainly not the answer. When you have a star you hang onto them. Especially when they're young. Free agents and drafts can net us good mids over the period these gun bookends play. Not only that but many can come in and have immediate impact. Or at least be up and running within 3 seasons. Let's come back to this in 8 years and see how each of Hogan and Weed go.

Hogan is 13th this year for marks (total). With a large proportion of those during a time when he hasn't been able to leave the turf cos he's jumping/landing on one leg. Of the players ahead of him, only Hawkins is a full time forward. The rest are waxing defenders. What EXACTLY more can he do to prove he can "catch" the ball? Weed will play deep? Will he? How do you know? You're putting your faith in a player who's done absolutely nothing so far. He's shown in VFL he can take a mark on the lead and is tall. That's about it. Pedo has shown more than him. Hogan at the same age showed a truckload more, even close to goal. What you're effectively saying is Hogan is better than Weed at close to goal stuff, and has more strings to his bow further out, and you STILL want to move one in and trade the other out for picks. Class? Not one supporter or expert would say he lacks ANY class. He's actually one of our best field kicks, once you take the blinkers off. His highball issues weren't there earlier this year. Was taking pack marks and cleaning up groups of players on the way to everyone's mid-year AA side. Since his ankle, like I've said, he's only been able to cover distance, and not been able to jump. If you hate him, hate him. Be my guest. But your analysis is way off. He's a star of the competition... Only Lynch is more feared in his age group.

After watching WC game I thought we would beat them based on what we do well. After that disgrace, now I wonder if we can, even with their big outs.

What? That's delusional. We need 2/3 KP forwards and Hogan and TMac are both superb. You trade one, we're down to one. The idea they're competing for one position on the ground is daft. Both of them run up the wings and play far and wide as well as deep. You can easily play both in the same forward line. We have the #1 attack in the league and they're our two biggest goalkickers?!! Weed is a one-trick pony that hasn't exhibited anything to suggest he's good at his one trick. Not only that, but Hogan and TMac do what he does better than him. But no no... he'll be "a beaut" despite the fact he's been in the system 3 years now and has shown nothing like what Jesse showed in his first two. And you want to play him, and trade Jesse. "Hoges it's time"... well jeez. I guess it's that simple? The kid is a star, playing like a star on one leg. One of our most important and critical to our future structure. 90% of the football world knows this, and isn't stupid enough to suggest he's trade fodder. Get a grip.

Yup. With a more settled 22 and in a better overall game I think he'd make way, but man there were some disgracefully poor demons today. Garlett and Hunt head of that class. Pedo ANB in the gun. But JKH won't be dropped.

You can put in your whipping boys, or go for the ones who actually ARE likely outs. Garlett, Hunt are definites. Hunt was atrocious, and looked pretty sore. Garlett was back to his absolute worst. Melksham and Hibberd the obvious ins. Gee we missed Melksham.

Are people for real about Hogan? All Australian contention until 6 weeks ago when he did his ankle. Is playing on one leg now and still kicked bags of 4 twice. It's not his fault we don't have good enough Fs in the wings to take his spot when he's lame. I know everyone's upset and everything, and rightly so.... but is this what Demonland has come to? Whining about trading Hogan in his best season yet? Fair dinkim the stupidity in this place is a joke sometimes.

You know what I think I just might. Saw the 2 and got it mixed up with the rounds. My mistake. Still wouldn't take two first rounders. The list is built for now. Hogan is in the top echelon of KP forwards in the comp, proved it before he copped his ankle (and in some games since). You know as well as the club does that the list is built for now. Invest 2 first rounders into the King twins, you can just as easily end up with two Wiedemans... And even if one worked out ok (which would be pure dumb luck to hit on 2 195cm players in one year), you'd need 5 years to get them even close.

You can have a sook if you want. I'm going to keep expecting us to have a dip. Playing any finals at all is crucial for this list, as they're built for 2019-2021. Whereas missing could be extremely harmful to their psyches, and to certain players' futures at the club.

Ah. Gotcha.

Jezus calm down. Was one of the game's leading ballwinners and was killing them until his ankle went bad. Came back on and played on one leg, as he has been doing for 6 weeks now. There's about 17 other MFC players who deserve abuse more than him. And two second rounders? You're having a laugh.