Dappa Dan

Wow. I'd take him.

Yup. All our Foles back and forth looking like it might come true. TBH, I feel like they're high balling... and will end up trading pick 32 and Foles for something higher up... but only if it gets to that, since right now they need him.

Whoa @Gorgoroth As if Rams needed more help, they get Marcus Peters!

Yeah totally. I wonder too how much the journeyman guys are told they've had a good year based moreso on team success. There's guys like Whitworth who change an entire offense... And then, say in Eagles, there's these corners that come in... very mediocre players who are talked about as the weakness in the team all year, and play really well... and then get lit up by Brady in the superbowl in embarrassing fashion. There's a reason they don't get press... They're not great. With Eagles fans, they love Mills, Robinson and others... but they're still a weakness.

I reckon Woods would be just about the only one anyone would know of outside of Rams fans. And yeah. I reckon Dougie was Robbed. But it doesn't really look to me like an award that you can quantify. A bit like how they give the Oscar to a film and the best director oscar to someone else, which has always seemed odd. Ditto for Brady being MVP but NOT offensive player of the year. I dunno that anyone minds really, cos Gurley is awesome. But it does make these awards seem a bit odd.

Doug was only in his second season. It's a bit debatable whether the being young part should have anything at all to do with it. A bit like winning an Oscar. It's an award given to the best performance within a year, not based on your age at the time. Also, the injuries Eagles copped was a big part. I reckon the big swing vote here was Howie Roseman. They hit on nearly every pick, trade and f/a guy they brought in in the off season. A lot of credit has gone to Howie in bringing in the depth... From memory McVay worked with what he had, besides a couple of pieces like Kupp, Whitworth and Watkins. Jimmy G will be great. @Macca and i were debating over the value of a Foles' trade in the coming months... I made the comparison that if Jimmy can get a mid second rounder in trade, Foles can get more as a superbowl MVP. What's clear now, especially with the money Garroppolo got paid, is that the 49ers got a bargain. A starting guy, franchise guy for a few years at least for a second rounder only. Everything gets easier when you have a franchise QB. Just look at Eagles.

I read that actually as the idea that behind closed doors, Bill's finally seen the end of the line and has given Kraft an ultimatum. I just got beaten by Nick Foles. Gronk's talking retirement. Brady will be done soon. I want out... Kraft says no, we need you, so they meet in the middle. Keep McDaniels and I'll wrap it up in either 12 or 24 months. No more Problems behind the scenes. This is it.

Almost as important as coach is O line. It's really amazing the difference it makes. His big first year he had Peters, Kelce Mathis and others. When he dropped off, everyone was hurt. Same thing with Dak and his protection issues this year, including his blocking RB, not being there.

Yeah. When he was run out of Philly by old Chipper, the narrative was that he was a god botherer, christian boy who didn't have the arrogance and confidence to do it in the big moments. Calling that play like that on 4th down to end the half... I don't know how you ask for a play like that when your name isn't Tom Brady. Is it De Filippo (I hope not, not an Eagle anymore)? Is it Doug?... I just can't figure it. Had a huge, spirited argument with a bunch of mates in fantasy who say Foles is nowhere near a first rounder, possibly is only worth a third. So it seems @Clintosaurus isn't alone. In the end some of them agreed that in a perfect world he COULD get a first, which is probably true... but that in the end he won't get one. Interestingly, this took place BEFORE Jimmy G got his record deal. The guy won 5 meaningless games to close out a losing season. Admittedly, with no help around him. Foles did that for a whole season in his first year, and he just went bang, bang, bang in playoffs... and these guys try to tell me that saying he's worth a first rounder is "emotional." How you can say that outrageous amount of money ISN'T emotional, but confidence in a player from winning a superbowl IS... Is a bit beyond me. Interestingly... I'll take him as a backup next year, sure. But I lean towards him being traded. Move on Foles and have them soak up all his cap. Let's low ball and say we get a couple of seconds or maybe a second and a third. We can move on Blount and Smith, maybe Celek retires... and then the guys we bring in aren't scrubs from round 7. And with enough money moved out, can even find a free agent to replace someone like Smith. Maybe a LB.

Yeah. It's interesting. Where do you place him in comparison to some others around the league right now... Obviously not including guys like Brees Brady, Ben... they're nearing the end... But in terms of some other guys like Mariotta, Winston, Goff, Wentz Yet to get their first big payday. Every one of those has done more I reckon, besides maybe Winston. How will that shake out? Massive implications. Every blessed second. That's an all pro centre right there. Fantastic. How are you feeling as a Rams fan? I have been a bit distracted over the last weeks, but Coach, offensive AND Defensive player of the year. And almost every special teamer in the all pro was a Ram.

Yeah biggest ever. Sort of makes sense. They had the cap space, they couldn't franchise him cos it wouldn't show they were 100% invested. They can fiddle with the contract too and back end it. He's young. Doesn't lose. Why not.

Gotcha.

So you're saying he'll force a trade ASAP?

Totally. The longer it goes the more likely they talk to his management and let him know he can walk at the end of the season, name his price, and find himself an ongoing starter job he wants to stay in. Even if a starter at another team does a knee, unless it's one of the Brees/Rothlisberger/Rivers type dinosaurs, it won't make sense to Foles just to go to another club to backup for a handful of games and then be back where he started 12 months ago. One last factor... Eagles have one of the worst cap situations going round. They're 9 mil over for next year, so have to lose a bunch of guys. Foles could be considered a guy you cut, but he only saves a couple of million. If they want that money, then trade is the only option.

Just had a knock down debate with a mate of mine about this. We settled roughly where Macca and I did in the last few days. The simple fact is, if Bradford can get a first rounder, Foles can get way more. As discussed it's all about market value and teams driving players' prices up. There's about 6 first round QBs... maybe 4 if you don't think too much of the last two... and there's about 6 QB starved teams. Players are already slotting into vacant spots. Bortles has been announced as the starter for next year. So in the current market? Yeah. He won't get traded, but not because he's only worth a 2nd or 3rd. It's precisely because he's worth more. Both as early season starter and backup to a busted up Wentz AND because... if Bradford can get a first rounder. Foles can get a first rounder. Or, say, a trade up from 32 to 15 for Arizona, or whatever. But it's likely going to be theoretical all this, until someone does a knee early next season. I feel like that's the only two things that could happen. Either he's traded somewhere in the first 8 weeks when they have a better idea on Wentz and his health, along with Sudfeld's work... Or they let him choose his club as a free agent and keep him on the list since they would feel they're threatening next year. And the journeyman QB stuff just doesn't hold up anymore. It's now known Fisher was a disgrace of a QB coach. Foles first season starting he had a 119 passer rating. He broke a slew of records and didn't throw a pick... except one that wasn't his fault....throughout a superbowl winning run, where he beat Brady in a 500 yard game he dominated. It's all facts and decorations. Superbowl MVPs. The knocks on Foles are fading into the background. He's already achieved more than some of the big time serious names will ever achieve. I'm no massive fan of his... If you were to compare him to, say, Wilson in a trade offered tomorrow... Wilson would get THREE first rounders. So I don't think it's much to ask. And as I say... Bradford got a first rounder. Garroppolo got what could have been pick 33 or 34 in a mid season trade where he was gonna walk ANYWAY. And he had, at the time, won exactly 4 games. Foles has what Garroppolo MIGHT NEVER GET. But yeah. I feel like we may never know. I'll be interested to see the so called journalists sensationalise the trade offers tho. Mid season trade deadline comes, Foles stays, and then watch the trade offer articles flow in. Gonna be fireworks.

Pretty pathetic. I'm sure there'll be a statement or something saying he got lost in the crowd/was too devastated... bs...

Yeah. I love that he's this oddity now. He could go on to have a glittering career. And will always be loved by Philly fans. Weird.

Yeah. Also, as with the Garcia comparison... 6 months ago... hell, 6 weeks ago he was viewed as a backup and not worth anything at all in a trade. Trading partners will raise that fact as a way to drive the price down a tad.

Is it completely unprecedented? There have been backups do things like this in the past. I remember Eagles had a guy who backed up McNabb, Garcia, who got them to the playoffs and a Wild Card win. After the season was over, the Eagles just let him walk. He started at whatever club he went to, from memory, for a couple of years. So that sort of thing could happen again. But yeah, I guess superbowl MVPs.... whole different kettle of fish. I find this stuff super exciting... I actually find the AFL system a bit of a let down. We have first rounders everyone loves considering. Then second rounders people start yawning. Then after that no-one really cares until their club picks, and even then nobody knows who these kids are. NFL is great though. You can see picks being used up to 3 years after you see a player traded, making the implications reach potentially years into the future and past. Yet another thing they get right for the fans.

Sure. I think though you can take a stab at market value. Nothing wrong with giving it a range. Say pick 20-40 or whatever. That covers the "inexactness" of it. Take into account that the Eagles traded everything they had just about, in exchange for Bradford in the first place, then the pick that got Wentz. There were pro bowl corners, and Defensive rookie of the year linebackers in there, along with all the Eagles second rounders and third rounders... It was so much fireworks. To be able to say at the end of it all that they traded Bradford for the first round pick (Barnett) that snaffled the turnover that won them a superbowl... AND they traded a journeyman free agent backup QB for a second and third rounder (that they currently have neither of)... it's a great bit of list management magic. Howie has been crowned manager of the year, and for good reason. So one could assume he'd get market value for him. As you say though, there are THAT many variables. Including the wishes of Foles himself which we'll likely never know. I think you'll find of course that like everyone, even after a fairytale year, the Eagles have needs all over the place. Tackle, RB (Blount, Smallwood and Pumphrey out), Middle linebacker, and most of the secondary. And they need WR depth.

Good point. So it has to do with what everyone else is offering. I'll brace myself for an early second rounder and be thrilled with a mid first rounder then.

One last question for @Macca and everyone else... In light of the Jimmy G trade... What is the BASEMENT and CEILING price for FOLES, just in terms of picks. I have it as him being more attractive right now that Garroppolo. Jimmy is gonna be awesome, had never lost etc... Foles was considered a journeyman backup... but now is more decorated than Garroppolo. When the 49ers traded him, they held at the time the first pick in the second round, shared with the Browns who were also winless. They went on to win 6 of the last 8, and move the eventual traded pick down from 34 all the way to 43... But if he was enough to give up a POTENTIAL pick 33.... then isn't Foles worth more than that come October 31 next year? Very similar situations. Jimmy was out at season's end. Foles will be too... Thoughts?

Yeah absolutely. One other thing I just thought of was the Eagles/Vikings trade of Bradford a couple of seasons ago. It came about because a team had a starter do a knee and they wanted to give their talented roster a chance. There's 32 teams. Odds are SOMEONE will go through that... possibly early in the regular or pre season. What happens if Watson takes longer than they thought? Or a problem comes up? You think they'd go with Savage over Foles if they could get him? Vikings are a well run club and they gave up a first rounder on the eve of the season for Bradford and had very good results. Also by that stage of the year they'll have WAY more inside info on how Carson is looking. Has he been able to stay fit? Is he confident? Can we put that pressure on him etc etc. If the answer is yes, then a trade is much more likely... and by THAT stage Foles will still have a superbowl MVP award in his house, and no first round QB picks to have to look better than. Cousins will have found a home. Maybe it'll just be a mid season thing again like Ajayi? I hadn't though about Bears. I know they are saying they're happy with Trubiski... But are they really? Clubs do funny things with a few months off. Also had assumed Miami would go with Tannehill again. They're also a basket case, so the fear would be Foles would revert to Rams Foles without a good squad around him. But it's certainly possible.

Ok. Foles landing spots... There's more than I thought. Brows: Picks 1, 4 and 33.... More than likely they take the first QB. Only way they don't is if they take others with picks 1 and 4, and then move 33 to Eagles for Foles. Unlikely though. Giants: Have Eli. Have already said they'll use him for next few seasons under Shurmur. Foles won't go to be a backup. They'll draft a QB if they want one. Next. Broncos: The first of the high possibility ones. They hold pick 5 and 40. They can take what's likely to be the 3rd best QB... Or trade their pick 3 and go down to Eagles pick 32... or potentially trade their 40 in a straight swap and take the best Left tackle available to protect Foles. They won't need much to compete again with that defense. Jets: Pick 6. Could drop down to 32 and take him. Unlikely though. Not sure they have the list to maximise the Foles potential, and would be another example of what happened to him at Rams. Arizona: Pick 15. Another big chance. Eagles would probably accept pick 15 for Foles and 32. Nothing wrong with that if they identified a Tackle that'll get to 15 but not 32. I'd take that in a heartbeat. And it's a great situation for Foles too. And to top it all off... He's an Arizona state lad. Chargers: Pick 17. Could he to a club with a 36 year old qb as the next starter? In today's world, Rivers could play another 4 years. Father about 7 more kids. He'll still be a great qb. Next. Bills: Picks 21, 22. Another good chance here. They clearly don't love Taylor. They have two picks. And a great trading relationship with the Eagles. Do they have the O-line? Do they have the receivers? That's questionable. Could happen, but maybe not as likely as Arizona or Broncos. They also have picks 53 AND 56... which are both mid to late second rounders. Currently Eagles pick at 32 and then nothing til the fourth round. They'd love a second rounder you'd think. Saints: Pick 27. Brees is 39.... It's not happening cos they won't want a controversy. Only way it does is if Foles doesn't find a starter job, and wants to take over in a couple of years under a great coach, play in a dome, in a star team. Very much an outside chance this. Steelers: Pick 28. See above. Ben is 35, so won't happen. Jaguars: Pick 29. Now here's one. They've got the receivers, protection, unbelievable run game and probably the best D going round. Bortles was painful all year, but may have saved his job in the playoff loss to the Pats. It's not outside the realms though. Is Foles an upgrade? Yes. Is the price too steep? No... Foles isn't a high price QB, so they can take him on and be able to retain their star defenders over the term of his contract. And all for only a very late first round pick. I think it's win-win-win. For Foles, Jags and Eagles. Especially Eagles who aren't in their Conference. Vikings: Pick 30. I thought of this yesterday, then thought about Keenum, Bridgewater and Bradford, and realised, nah, probably not. Then I saw many of the pundits are mentioning them. If they take Foles, then Keenum and Bradford hit the open market. Bridgewater I think will stay and keep healing at Vikings. They love him there. It's a really aggressive move though, since Keenum has got a lot of fans right now, and Bridgewater is seen as talent, and Bradford is just injury prone. Could they move on 2 or even 3 of those guys and roll with Foles? Was the Minnesota disaster enough to lose patience with all three? Does the fact it was Foles setting records against them in the championship game make them more likely to be the trade partner? Could happen. And pick 30 aint a high price. If Foles could do it at Eagles, he can do it at Vikes. It's tantalising, if you're Vikings front office. Patriots: Pick 31. Nah. Brady didn't even shake his hand at the end of the game. The problem with many of those is that in many mocks, as many as 6 QBs are being taken... and early. Conservatively, let's say 4 go in the first round. So Darnold, Rosen, Allen, and maybe one of Jackson and Mayfield. That wipes out Browns, Giants, Broncos and Jets who have the pressing need. Leaving just 3 or so more teams looking for a QB. Say, the Bills Arizona and Jags. Cousins will go to one of these 7 teams. Meaning really only one or two possible teams looking for a QB. So after ALL that... It seems like, yeah, sure... plenty of teams need a qb... but there's so many out there. 4-5 drafted ones, plus the free agent/trade pool which is very strong. Cousins to lead them off... Keenum and Bradford there too. Seems to me Eagles might only get a second rounder for him. So why not hang onto him for 2018?

In a perfect world, Foles would accept a few million a year to backup Wentz the rest of his career. Obviously now that's impossible. Me and @Macca went over the sums just after the championship game he dominated in... and as Jaws (Jaworski, last eagles superbowl quarterback and media personality) put it... There's only 16 or so reliable quarterbacks you can trust for 16 games a season in the league, and now Foles is one of them. Going by that, he really has to get a new gig. Dead right. Eagles O line played out of their minds this year and especially in playoffs. Foles is a reps player... as in he needs reps... he had an MVP calibre season, playoff MVP calibre 3 weeks... and superbowl MVP in his trophy cupboard as a statue-style QB. Is everyone in the league convinced he'll win more superbowls? The answer, generally, is no. He had some incredible coaching and a team around him that a quarterback dreams of. A D that was as good as just about anyone all year, and saved his butt a few times. Heaps of receivers. A top 5 running game with at least 2 super pass catchers out of the backfield, and guys who can throw blocks when he needed them. And as everyone is now aware, some extremely great quarterback coaching as evidenced by what happened with not one, but two QBs. You also have a team who have a real conundrum on their hands. Wentz is the starter... noone doubts that... We know Foles will be at a different club. The question is when... and how much do they get. Here's your options. A: Trade him on or soon after March 14. His trade value will NEVER be higher. Trouble with that is that we'd be rolling with another random backup, or Sudfeld, if Wentz doesn't come up for week 1. B: Take Foles in to week 1-4 or so... get those on the board as best you can. Take pressure of Wentz HAVING to play. Put him back in when he's 100%. They'd be looking at the many false starts of Andrew Luck here and factoring that in. Trade Foles before the dealine for a Jimmy Garroppolo type deal. C: Keep Foles on his $7 mil contract for 2018. He leaves at season's end to wherever he wants in free agency after winning a second superbowl. I'm not sure on rules, but if he's signed to big bucks, I suppose Eagles get a compensatory pick at the end of the third or fourth round or something? Macca probably knows. D: Cut a few guys, save a further 15 million and add it to his current contract as a renegotiation for just the next 12 months. Thus paying 20+ million to Big Dick Nick to play a few games and be a backup. Simply not an option. It's a tough one to predict. Especially when another big wrinkle here is that they have a superbowl winning list with almost all its major stars signed through 2018. As Macca will tell you, they're all "win now" these franchises. And there's no doubt that keeping Foles for next year is the safe stress-free move. For our resident Eagle tragic... I dunno that I'm all that stressed with any of those options. Obviously my mind is in a certain place after just winning one... but I feel like the only thing Eagles miss out on is a pick. Maybe a second rounder. Possibly a move from pick 32 up to mid first round or something... and in the end, is that ALL that much of a huge thing next to taking care of your 25 year old franchise QB by supporting him with a superbowl MVP? So yeah. I'll take all these options. I'm gonna do another post now showing the potential landing spots for him.